Deca (nandrolone) added to trt and wow!!

[bp]

From what I understand, many of the health risks of deca aren't necessarily due to poor lipids, but things that aren't likely to show up on a standard blood test. I'm thinking cardiac fibrosis, LVH, and increased LDL oxidation. So OP, please realize that the normal blood tests won't tell the full picture.

I wholeheartedly agree.
Id even go as far as to say that the changes to the lipid profile, thru nandrolone administration dont really count for much.
It’s the effects on the endothelial function which should worry us.
Yes, the major study involving this was in-vitro, not live subjects, but, nevertheless, the outcome of this study, which showed nandrolone to be 11x more ‘aggressive’ to the arterial intima than testosterone, truly is a cause for concern for anyone considering administration on the grounds of ‘therapy’.

 

[gaz7718]

One needs to balance risk and reward as best as possible. For joint health it seems quite a low dose is adequate and 100mg per week suggested. Perhaps even lower might be equally effective. Anything more than what is necessary doesn’t seem sensible from a TRT perspective. Surely even 100mg per week of deca is going to boost T levels beyond current ranges, which I will find out in a few weeks when I re-test.
I’d rather start low, evaluate and increase if required and keep to a strict 10-12 week cycle subject to no issues arising.

 

[Paul M]

I take 80mg of Deca weekly alongside 100mg of Enanthate and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Deca makes me feel 20 years younger in terms of not feeling decrepit. It's worth it for me even if it ends up knocking a few years off my life.

 

[gaz7718]

That’s the kind of trt protocol that seems sensible. I’m still unclear how much test ought to be reduced once deca is introduced to prevent t levels going too high.

How long have you been on this protocol?

Any sides?

 

[Paul M]

I've been on this protocol for around 10 months and the only sides are lipids have raised just above the numbers the pharmaceutical companies put in place (to get more people on statins) but as I don't believe the hype reference cholesterol anyway I'm not overly concerned.

 

[Gman86]

One needs to balance risk and reward as best as possible. For joint health it seems quite a low dose is adequate and 100mg per week suggested. Perhaps even lower might be equally effective. Anything more than what is necessary doesn’t seem sensible from a TRT perspective. Surely even 100mg per week of deca is going to boost T levels beyond current ranges, which I will find out in a few weeks when I re-test.
I’d rather start low, evaluate and increase if required and keep to a strict 10-12 week cycle subject to no issues arising.

Sounds like a smart plan. I don’t see any reason to cycle it though when using a therapeutic dose. It would be like cycling testosterone. Makes more sense to just use both, indefinitely, at therapeutic dosages.

 

[gaz7718]

Fair point although I’m still of a mindset that even smaller doses will have some adverse health effects, which cycling might limit?
I’m only on week 2 and I seem to have gained1kg in weight and increased strength. 20 full body pull-ups achieved yesterday and previous pb was 18 several months ago, and I’m 4kgs heavier now

 

[Gman86]

Fair point although I’m still of a mindset that even smaller doses will have some adverse health effects, which cycling might limit?
I’m only on week 2 and I seem to have gained1kg in weight and increased strength. 20 full body pull-ups achieved yesterday and previous pb was 18 several months ago, and I’m 4kgs heavier now

I don’t see what adverse effects would occur when using doses of 100mg or below. It’s like saying testosterone will cause adverse effects at 100mg when used for too long. The only issue I can see is if your doses of T and deca together are putting your levels too high. But then you can just lower both down a little. I don’t see the benefit of cycling deca and temporary losing the benefits of it inbetween cycles. Nandrolone seems like a compound that in the future it might just be a regular part of HRT. It might just become the standard to use both when hopping on TRT.

 

[Paul M]

Fair point although I’m still of a mindset that even smaller doses will have some adverse health effects, which cycling might limit?

I see your point as Deca has been shown to have an adverse effect on the cardiovascular system in most studies, though most studies are on animals and administering massive doses which aren't realistic or in keeping with most intermediate and advanced bodybuilding cycles let alone TRT dosages. I do agree that cycling would be safer if we do not really know what Deca does even in small doses to human beings in the long term. Exelmale founder, Nelson is still in the land of the living though and he administered 200mg weekly for a decade.

 

[Gman86]

I see your point as Deca has been shown to have an adverse effect on the cardiovascular system in most studies, though most studies are on animals and administering massive doses which aren't realistic or in keeping with most intermediate and advanced bodybuilding cycles let alone TRT dosages. I do agree that cycling would be safer if we do not really know what Deca does even in small doses to human beings in the long term. Exelmale founder, Nelson is still in the land of the living though and he administered 200mg weekly for a decade.

Exactly. It’s a weird analogy, but assuming deca has adverse effects at very low doses because of studies done with ridiculously high doses and on rats, is like a girl accusing a guy of rape, then they find out she was lying and he gets acquitted, yet everyone still thinks he’s a rapist, or his name at least gets tainted.

I’ve never seen one study, or heard one anecdotal story from a doctor saying that nandrolone has any adverse effects at doses 100mg or below. To be on the safe side, just do 75mg or below. Basically the lowest effective dose to get the desired results, without the adverse effects.

 

[ERO]

I wish I could get a prescription for 100 mg a week. I have some creaky joints that could use a break.

 

[Gman86]

I wish I could get a prescription for 100 mg a week. I have some creaky joints that could use a break.

What doctor do you see? Hormone health and wellness out of West palm beach is one clinic that I know of that has no problems prescribing it. Don’t know of any others. I’m sure there’s more. Just know that one 100% doesn’t mind prescribing it.

 

[ERO]

I am with Defy and I am pretty sure they only prescribe it if you can prove an injury or something along those lines, but thank you.

 

[Gman86]

I am with Defy and I am pretty sure they only prescribe it if you can prove an injury or something along those lines, but thank you.

Oh damn, really? What makes you think that? Have you tried asking them for it?

I ask because I’m with defy as well, and plan on asking them during my next consultation to go on nandrolone to help with some clicking and sore shoulders.

 

[ERO]

I did ask them but it was a couple years back, perhaps they have a new policy by now. (Fingers crossed)

 

[Gman86]

I did ask them but it was a couple years back, perhaps they have a new policy by now. (Fingers crossed)

What did you ask them to go on it for? And what was their response?

 

[SilverSurfer]

No side effects? Has it helped with mood or libido?

No negative side effects. Hasn’t effected mood or libido one way or the other. After my 4 week weigh in I’ve gained 7 lbs. I’m also more vascular. I clearly look bigger. My guess is that after my 10 week program / cycle is up I’ll be up 15 lbs. I’m watching my macros closely. My appetite is also significantly increased, as well as my strength. Not bad for only 250 mg per week Deca.

 

[SilverSurfer]

Also, I did just get bloods drawn after being on Deca for 30 days. If my lipids or hemocrit get wonky I will stop immediately. I should have results back early next week. I’m 50 years old, and only started Deca to help with my joint issues, which it has. The added muscle mass and vascularity is nice but definitely not worth a health risk.

 

[bochinit]

Also, I did just get bloods drawn after being on Deca for 30 days. If my lipids or hemocrit get wonky I will stop immediately. I should have results back early next week. I’m 50 years old, and only started Deca to help with my joint issues, which it has. The added muscle mass and vascularity is nice but definitely not worth a health risk.

Of what health risks are you talking about?

 

[Paul M]

Of what health risks are you talking about?

Nandrolone in high doses leads to left ventricular hypertrophy over time (thickening of the artery wall), though most studies are conducted in animals at doses that are tenfold or more above what many on TRT would consider administering. Other studies show no to little correlation between nandrolone and cardiac function but at high doses I believe there is a link. There may also be a link at low doses, though no studies are available for low dose, long term nandrolone administration in human beings as far as I know.