This period of time when you felt well after switching to daily was likely your body having a more favorable t/e2 ratio for a period of time. Your t was lower but estradiol was still elevated. Now estradiol is lower and matches back where It was in relation to your t. I felt this before with my first big dosage reduction. I’ve always been daily. but when I got some sense after two months of being on 28 mg per day I halved my dose and felt great for a period of time. Still felt better on lower dose thereafter. I have lower levels of aromatization. I’m beginning to replace estradiol.
Daily Sub Q TRT injection ?
- Thread starter Tremonti22
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Tremonti22
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I recognize it’s only been 9 days on the daily dose and that’s not adequate enough to gain a sense of what’s going on. I will continue the 14mg daily sub q for 4 weeks and then get labs. It’s just that it’s been 3.5 years on trt and I never really feel right. Can’t turn back now, but sure wish I could dial it in. The whole goal of this deal was to feel good and I certainly do not.
That's because switching to dailies will result in lower testosterone availability until it builds back up and stabilizes. So, you will feel good for a few days, or at least I always did. Then, you will probably feel like it's too low of a dose for a while, as you stabilize.
I feel you...and I feel similar. I felt good for about the first 3 weeks, on gel, when I first started (about 35mg of Fortesta to the thigh per day). I found this site and started reading away. Before I knew it, I had convinced myself that shots were the way to go. The only time I feel good now...when I up my dose. That lasts for a week or so. At one point, I decided to stop T on my own. I felt great for about a week, then all those issues I had -the reasons I started T- began to creep back in. Sometimes, I feel like I should just go back to Fortesta. Other times, I think I've invested so much into this that I have to be close. I've been on dailies for about 8 months now, trying to find some stability. My swings aren't as great, but on back on this forum because I am thinking about going back to EOD because the my aches and pains are present at the lower dose. The second best I ever felt-lasted about 3 weeks- 30mg T a day, 15mg ND, and .05 ai. Then, it feels like severe allergies kick in with throat tightness. Chasing my tail...I think about running that again, but doubling down on my ai when that happens as high E can increase allergies...my mind...maybe my e is really high. Or...maybe I should run that dose EOD...So...I feel you
Tremonti22
Member
Sorry you’re going through this bro. It’s been a couple days since I’ve posted and I do feel better than I did, so it’s really hard to say what exactly is going on. The daily dosing seems to give me so much energy I have trouble getting to sleep but I have stabilized a bit. It is more than likely going to take some time and labs will tell the tale. I wish you success and hope you get it figured out. I’ve got an appointment with Lipshultz in April and based on what I’ve heard he’s very good so I’m hoping he will be able to help get it right
Tremonti22
Member
Ok it’s been just shy of 5 weeks since doing the 14mg daily’s & had labs done and to my shock Total test dropped to 254, free Test to 52 & E2 (ultra sensitive) to 12.
how can this be possible? To drop from 1500 to 254. Can’t figure it out. No wonder I’ve been feeling bad. Extreme insomnia, constipation & no libido. Probably because my test dropped down to where I was when I started. Not a fan of Daily’s. Maybe my body hasn’t been absorbing it? I knew it would drop from the 160mg once IM protocol but to 254?
Does pushing air into the test to enable it to be drawn into the syringe for insulin syringe / daily’s cause the test to stale or lose potency?
feel like I’m starting fresh again which may be a good thing because I’m low enough. Going to take @madman advice and start every 3.5 day IM injections @ 60mg per / 120 then test again in 4-6 weeks.
@madman i could really use your thoughts here bud thx
how can this be possible? To drop from 1500 to 254. Can’t figure it out. No wonder I’ve been feeling bad. Extreme insomnia, constipation & no libido. Probably because my test dropped down to where I was when I started. Not a fan of Daily’s. Maybe my body hasn’t been absorbing it? I knew it would drop from the 160mg once IM protocol but to 254?
Does pushing air into the test to enable it to be drawn into the syringe for insulin syringe / daily’s cause the test to stale or lose potency?
feel like I’m starting fresh again which may be a good thing because I’m low enough. Going to take @madman advice and start every 3.5 day IM injections @ 60mg per / 120 then test again in 4-6 weeks.
@madman i could really use your thoughts here bud thx
Is this ugl testosterone or compounded at a pharmacy?
I would retest.
I’m currently on 8mg daily and am fine.
5mg of test enanthate
3mg test propionate
No hcg
I feel fine
Blood results coming in by mid week. I’ll let you know what my morning trough is.
These results are hard to understand. This serum testosterone is less than a third of what the average guy would see at that dose. Bad lab test? Bad testosterone? Significant leakage from injection sites? Air exposure is not degrading testosterone over any reasonable time frame.
Really really weird. I switched from cypionate to enanthate. Here in Brazil the enanthate does not have in official pharmacies and we have to buy imported which concerns me the quality. Here we have durateston, which is cheap and the government subsidizes too. Does the ED subq protocol work well with durateston? (sustanon in other countries) since in its composition it has the decanoate ester which has a high half-life?
Free t at 52 and t at 254 is the right...that seems way out of balance.
In long-term use similar results should be obtained from daily injections of any form of testosterone that is dominated by longer esters—if testosterone content is matched. This applies to enanthate, cypionate, Sustanon/Durateston, decanoate, undecanoate/Nebido, etc. The differences are in the stabilization periods. For example, it takes around six times longer to stabilize with undecanoate than to stabilize with cypionate.
Sustanon and Durateston contain some of the shorter-acting propionate and phenylpropionate esters, but these are outweighed by decanoate and isocaproate to the extent that the daily ripple in serum testosterone is likely too small to have much effect. As a proponent of introducing diurnal hormonal variation into TRT, I might argue that the variation in these ester blends is better than nothing. This should be weighed against availability and stabilization periods, the latter being fairly long due to the decanoate.
Not too out of whack if the free T is equilibrium dialysis with range 35.0-155.0 pg/mL.
Looking at the graphics on the website SteroidPlotter - Graph your cycle when I simulate 8 Mg durateston ED it is very close to 6.25 Mg enanthate ED with the difference that during the durateston there are interesting daily variations but in practice I am in doubt with the stacking when applying the long-term ester ED.
Tremonti22
Member
Sorry I don’t understand what you’re saying here
Tremonti22
Member
Sorry I don’t understand this reply of yours at all. Perhaps in layman’s terms
Tremonti22
Member
I know crazy right
Can’t believe it would be the test
Don’t think the lab was wrong / no libido and insomnia and constipation confirm levels were low.
On this website you can simulate what happens when you apply a dose of the testosterone you use. It is a website that helps to bite the spikes and variations of testosterone in our body.
madman
Super Moderator
As I stated previously going from 160 mg/week--->98 mg/week is a significant drop in T but even then hard to believe that one would experience such a drastic drop in levels 1500--->254!
Bad lab test......possible as it is known to happen.
If anything you can retest TT to rule out but you already know where your FT/e2 truly sit as both were tested LC/MS-MS.
Mind you as stated your feeling horrible.
*No wonder I’ve been feeling bad. Extreme insomnia, constipation & no libido. Probably because my test dropped down to where I was when I started.
*I know crazy right
Can’t believe it would be the test
Don’t think the lab was wrong / no libido and insomnia and constipation confirm levels were low.
Highly doubtful it was bad testosterone seeing as you stated that it is being prescribed by your doctor.
Even if it was not pharma grade and instead compounded there would not be such a drastic drop in T.
Sure.....if it was UGL (highly underdosed/bunk)!
Poor injection technique/procedure causing leakage.....doubtful unless it was happening frequently as you are injecting daily.
Would be rare that one would have excess leakage at the injection site frequently and in most cases anytime one experiences any leakage it is minimal.
If you are concerned that injecting sub-q may be causing absorption issues then switch to IM.
Regarding the absorption/effectiveness of T should be no difference between sub-q vs IM mind you there are some men who do not feel well-injecting sub-q let alone claim they hit much lower numbers but I would be suspect in most cases unless they are :
*following the same protocol (dose T/injection frequency)
*staying consistent and waiting the full 4-6 weeks for blood levels to stabilize
*getting blood work done at 6 weeks
*using the same lab, same assays (most accurate), and testing at the true trough.
Only when the above steps have been followed and labs from the sub-q and IM protocol can be fairly compared then one can truly state such!
Your TT/FT/e2 levels are at the bottom end of your current protocol as you can see from your blood work.
Top it off that you feel horrible.
If you feel more comfortable injecting IM then make the switch and decide whether you want to stick with dailies or jump into 120 mg/week at 60mg twice weekly (every 3.5 days).
Tremonti22
Member
Thank you bud
I agree with everything you’re saying. I know I was injecting correctly, drawing slowly, ensuring no air, inserting into my belly fat, injecting slowly and waiting a good 6-7 seconds before removing.
I just don’t think it was working right for whatever reason. As mentioned because I am at the bottom I may have a chance to start fresh, going to keep a positive outlook.
as of thursday Feb 11th I am switching to 60mg IM every 3.5 days. And will run that for 4-6 weeks then get labs.
@gerardo was asking what daily injections of Sustanon would be like. I said it wouldn't be that much different from daily injections of cypionate/enanthate/undecanoate if the amount of testosterone is matched.
It's easy enough to check your injection sites a few times to rule out leakage. Just leave them untouched for a few minutes and then shine a flashlight so the light reflects off of your skin. It's easy to see if you've got an oil slick there. At these tiny doses a mere 0.05 mL of loss each time would account for your low total testosterone.
Don't rule out the lab either until you have a retest. It's possible to get side effects from any significant dose reduction, even when serum testosterone stays in a healthy normal range. It takes time to adapt.
I had the same issue with going from 50mg twice a week with a 1/2in 29 gage needle to 32mg three times a week with a 5/16in 31 gage needle. Went from a TT of 846 to a TT of 531. I believe it has something to do with going from shallow IM to SQ.
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