Honestly I was way to passive about all of this, but have since started experimenting and have tried a various different substances. Primarily I wanted to get my libido back, but of course other symptom relief would be welcome as well. I tried Masteron, Proviron, HCG, Dianabol, Estradiol E and I did play around a bit with Test E doses and injection schedules. Most of these things provided no changes, minor negatives without positives or just gym gains.
I have since tried a couple of different doses: 140, 175 and 245, and on all of them I have the same symptom relief, the only difference are gym gains. I will try more doses in the near future, however I'm trying out something else for now.
Seems as though no one on here is man enough to tell you that your trough FT is absurdly high!
Libido is multifactorial much more involved than just hitting a healthy FT, DHT or estradiol level.
Far from a given driving up your DHT is going to be the missing link to your non-existent libido.
The only wat too know is through trial and error.
Even then.....
hence why Masteron and Proviron were the first things I tried.
It's a myth that one needs to have high-end let alone absurdly high DHT levels in order to have a healthy libido.
Would not be jumping to any conclusions just yet and placing the sole blame on your DHT level here.
You are hammering the shit out of your dopamine here as your trough FT (lowest point) which would be 24 hrs post-injection when injecting daily is absurdly high.
You are hitting a very high trough TT 1000+ ng/dL and more importantly absurdly high trough FT which also means that your peak TT/FT will be sky f**king high due to the PK of TP!
Yes there is such a thing as running too high a FT level.
As I have stated numerous times on the forum running too high a FT can be just as bad in many ways as running too low a FT especially when it comes to libido, erectile function let alone mood.
Hammering the shit out of your dopamine can easily backfire on one in the long-run.
One is also more prone to sides (cosmetic/blood markers) if you drive your FT up too high!
You tested your FT using a known to be inaccurate assay (direct immunoassay) which also tends to underestimate FT compared against the most accurate assay which would be the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis.
The only way too know where your FT level truly sits is to have it tested using the most accurate assay which would be the gold standard ED especially in cases of altered SHBG.
Even then you always have the option of using/relying upon calculated FT which would be the linear law-of-mass action cFTV as it has already been validated twice as the 1st time was done using TT/SHBG assays no longer available and eventually re-validated using current state-of-the-art ED method (higher order reference method) let alone more recently against CDCs standardized Equilibrium Dialysis assay.
Yes it tends to overestimate slightly but it is nothing to fret over!
If we take your high trough TT 1040 ng/dL, lowish SHBG 19 nmol/L and Album 4.3 g/dL (default) your trough FT 32.2 ng/dLis absurdly high!
Again this is your trough (lowest point) 24 hrs post-injection as you are injecting a whopping 25 mg TP daily.
Show me a healthy young male with low/lowish SHBG hitting a TT 1000+ ng/dL.....such does not exist!
Top it off that your peak TT/FT will be sky-high due to the PK of TP.
Clearly overmedicated here!
View attachment 47376
Again just to put this in perspective most healthy young males would be hitting a FT 10 ng/dL tested using the gold standard Equilibrium Dialysis assay (most accurate) or a cFTV 13-15 ng/dL and this is a short-lived peak to boot!
Trough would be 20-25% lower.
More importantly a FT in the low 20s whether cFTV or standardized ED assay would be very high!
Everyone needs to hammer it in their heads that a trough FT 30 ng/dL is absurdly high.
We are talking f**king TROUGH here too not peak!
Everyone so caught up on thinking they need to be hitting these high/absurdly high troughs to have this so called stellar libido!
Libido let alone erectile function are much more complex!
Again having a healthy FT is only one piece of the puzzle as libido let alone ED are multifactorial.
Getting quality sleep, minimizing stress (physical/mental), following a healthy diet, exercising/staying active, improving overall vascular health will have a far bigger impact than jacking up your trough FT!
Have realistic expectations especially when it comes to libido and erectile function!
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*We established mFT reference ranges for healthy men aged 18 to 69 years
We present 95% mFT age-stratified reference ranges
Age category (years)
|
Median mFT (ng/dl)
|
95% mFT reference range (ng/dl)
|
25-29 (n=148)
|
10.3
|
5.6 - 17.1
|
30-39 (n=252)
|
9.7
|
4.9 - 18.1
|
40-49 (n=207)
|
8.0
|
4.3 - 13.5
|
50-59 (n=146)
|
7.0
|
3.8 - 12.6
|
60-69 (n=114)
|
5.9
|
3.3 - 11.9
|
*The gold-standard for the determination of FT levels is considered to be directly measured free testosterone (mFT) using equilibrium dialysis followed by mass spectrometry (ED LC-MS/MS). However, no widely accepted reference ranges are available for this clinical parameter. We established mFT reference ranges for healthy men aged 18 to 69 years
*Serum samples were analyzed from healthy men participating in the SIBLOS/SIBEX and EMAS studies, both population-based cohort studies
* mFT levels were measured in 867 men using ED LC-MS/MS as previously reported (1).
Reference: 1. Fiers T, Wu F, Moghetti P, Vanderschueren D, Lapauw B, Kaufman JM. Reassessing Free-Testosterone Calculation by Liquid Chromatography–Tandem Mass Spectrometry Direct Equilibrium Dialysis. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2018;103(6). doi:10.1210/jc.2017-02360
In the current study, we used a state-of-the-art direct ED method to reassess FT in sets of representative serum samples. This method takes advantage of the ability of a highly sensitive and accurate measurement of T by liquid chromatography–tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS) to reliably measure the low FT concentration directly in the dialysate after ED. This more straightforward method avoids potential sources of inaccuracy in indirect ED, such as those resulting from tracer impurities or from measures to limit their impact (e.g., sample dilution). We then used the measured FT results to re-evaluate some characteristics of two more established and a more recently proposed calculations for estimation of FT.
https://academic.oup.com/clinchem/article/70/Supplement_1/hvae106.074/7760719 Assessment of free testosterone (FT) has been recommended as a biomarker for diagnosis and management of hypogonadism and female hyperandrogenism. Reliable laboratory measurements are essential for correctly...
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*The agreement among IA and among ED-LC-MS/MS assays was close. However, FT concentrations obtained by IAs were in average 6 times lower compared to the ED-LC-MS/MS methods
*Results estimated using the Vermeulen equation overestimated FT in average by 15% compared to the ED-LC-MS/MS methods and by over 6 times compared to IAs
*Preliminary findings of the CSP interlaboratory comparison study found large variability among participating assays. The agreement among IA and among ED-LC-MS/MS assays was close. However, FT concentrations obtained by IAs were in average 6 times lower compared to the ED-LC-MS/MS methods. Results estimated using the Vermeulen equation overestimated FT in average by 15% compared to the ED-LC-MS/MS methods and by over 6 times compared to IAs.
Again would tread lightly on how high you run your trough/steady-state FT level! This can easily backfire in the long-run for many especially when it comes to mood, libido and erectile function! Too high a FT level can be just as bad in many ways as having too low a FT level. Libido starts in...
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Libido starts in the brain.
Neurotransmitters have a big impact especially dopamine.
There is a fine balance here when it comes to the dopamine system!
This is key here..... dopamine circuits are powerfully regulated by androgens!
*dopamine circuits are powerfully regulated by androgens
*
androgens as potent modulators of prefrontal cortical operations and of closely related, functionally critical measures of prefrontal dopamine level or tone
*androgens dynamically control meso prefrontal dopamine systems and impact prefrontal states of hypo- and hyper-dopaminergia
*dopamine-dependent prefrontal operations appear to universally follow inverted U shaped functions
* androgens maintain a lifelong capacity to bidirectionally modulate prefrontal dopamine tone
*By targeting enzymes and signaling molecules associated with androgenic metabolites of testosterone (Fig 1), these studies more directly implicate androgens in modulating prefrontal function. They also show that both supranormal androgen stimulation and androgen deficiency negatively affects prefrontal operations (Fig 2A). This inverted U- shaped function is similar to that described for functional meso prefrontal dopamine settings (Cools R and D'Esposito M, 2011; Cools R et al.,2019; Floresco SB, 2013; Floresco SB and Magyar O, 2006)
*The data also demonstrate an inverted U-shaped function that describes these dopamine effects. According to this function, prefrontal dopamine levels— often referred to as prefrontal dopamine tone- that are either higher or lower than a functionally optimal set point are detrimental to behavior and circuit function (Fig 2B).
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/truth-testosterone-libido-185000725.html?soc_src=social-sh&soc_trk=tw&tsrc=twtr As an expert on andrology and sexual dysfunctions, urologist Andrew Y. Sun, M.D., sees plenty of patients who’re struggling with low libido. And most are pretty sure they already...
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*The male sexual response cycle is complex and the exact role of testosterone in mediating libido, arousal, erection, ejaculation, and orgasm is multifactorial
*This hormone isn’t the only biological factor with clear, substantial power over our libidos
Started test 6 weeks ago. I feel great. Good sleep, good training, feeling good and so on. Was at 140 mg test and
500 iu hcg every week (EOD shots). I started to feel some pain in the chest and did a fast blood test to only check test and estradiol. Came back at 48nmol/l and 0.17 nmol/l (Do I...
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*Again having a healthy FT is only one piece of the puzzle as libido let alone ED are multifactorial.
*Getting quality sleep, minimizing stress (physical/mental), following a healthy diet, exercising/staying active, improving overall vascular health will have a far bigger impact than jacking up your trough FT!
*Have realistic expectations especially when it comes to libido and erectile function!
