Have you personally been affected by the novel coronavirus?

Vince · May 12, 2020

'A breaking point': Anti-lockdown efforts during Spanish flu offer a cautionary tale for coronavirus

Opposition to public health directives forced some cities to roll back orders too quickly.

www-nbcnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org

Renman23 · May 12, 2020

Vince said:
'A breaking point': Anti-lockdown efforts during Spanish flu offer a cautionary tale for coronavirus

Opposition to public health directives forced some cities to roll back orders too quickly.

www-nbcnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org

To me, the worst thing I keep hearing is..
Its going to cost lives but... Thats just the price we have to pay" Rest assured... they NEVER meant they or anyone they know will suffer...

Deleted member 16042 · May 12, 2020

Renman23 said:
To me, the worst thing I keep hearing is..
Its going to cost lives but... Thats just the price we have to pay" Rest assured... they NEVER meant they or anyone they know will suffer...

Cataceous · May 12, 2020

Renman23 said:
That post wasn't about Government or Law. It was a response to the previous poster saying he had ZERO obligation to anyone in society whose health he might endanger.

You suggested that if he exercises his constitutional rights then he is "opting out" of society while taking its benefits. That's not our system. You can't create an obligation to others that restricts one's rights unless there's due process involved. As @Lookingforward said, first prove that he specifically is a danger to others, then place the restrictions. Those in power may chafe under this burden and use the circumstances to undermine support for important rights. But we should resist this if we value our freedom.

That said, society has ways of pressuring selfish jerks that don't involve misuse of government power. For example, businesses are private property and should be allowed to deny access to those not wearing masks.

Lookingforward · May 12, 2020

Renman23 said:
That post wasn't about Government or Law. It was a response to the previous poster saying he had ZERO obligation to anyone in society whose health he might endanger.

Lookingforward · May 12, 2020

Yes. It's a fact and has been proven thousands of times in court. No one in the USA can be held responsible for something he or she "might" have done.

Renman23 · May 15, 2020

Lookingforward said:
Yes. It's a fact and has been proven thousands of times in court. No one in the USA can be held responsible for something he or she "might" have done.

Guys... Cowboy up!
Go to all the bars, restaurants, beaches, airplanes... any enclosed space you like, wear no masks, Hell go buck Naked!... and if you suffer no ill effects... cool
If you die... I'll nominate you for a Darwin!

DragonBits · May 16, 2020

In these situations, I wonder what has happened in the past and has our society has changed a lot from the past? I wouldn't underestimate what "can" happen if people get concerned enough.

Typhoid Mary aka Mary Mallon.

"Based on Soper’s sleuthing, the New York City Health Department took Mallon into custody in 1907 and placed her into forced confinement inside a bungalow on 16-acre North Brother Island, off the Bronx shoreline, with only a fox terrier as a companion."

After her second apprehension, Mallon spent the last 23 years of her life as a virtual prisoner in forced isolation, adding to the three years from her first stint on North Brother Island. Although hundreds, if not thousands, of asymptomatic carriers who had been identified walked the sidewalks of New York freely, Typhoid Mary alone lived in exile in large part due to the public opinion that turned firmly against her after her failure to stay out of the kitchen. She was fated to cook only for herself until her death on November 11, 1938.

10 Things You May Not Know About 'Typhoid Mary' | HISTORY

One of history’s most famous infectious disease carriers, she was put into forced isolation for more than two decades.

www.history.com

So was this "constitutional"?

jdthoosier · May 16, 2020

Renman23 said:
Guys... Cowboy up!
Go to all the bars, restaurants, beaches, airplanes... any enclosed space you like, wear no masks, Hell go buck Naked!... and if you suffer no ill effects... cool
If you die... I'll nominate you for a Darwin!

And if you get sick, stay the hell home and don't put our front-line medical staff at risk.

Cataceous · May 16, 2020

DragonBits said:
...
Typhoid Mary aka Mary Mallon.
...
So was this "constitutional"?

A cursory reading of her story doesn't get into what level of due process she received. The first time she was confined:

Under sections 1169 and 1170 of the Greater New York Charter, she was arrested as a public health threat. Under questioning, she admitted that she almost never washed her hands.[R]

It doesn't seem likely the Supreme Court weighed in on these statutes. In any case, her behavior was pretty egregious; they released her in 1910 after she promised to protect others, but she returned to her old ways—being a cook with poor hygiene—sickening many more and killing some.

After arresting her, public health authorities returned her to quarantine on North Brother Island on March 27, 1915.

Even if she didn't get proper legal due process at the time, it seems as though the state had more than enough evidence to prove the danger she presented. Her second arrest was even more clear-cut. She was certainly guilty of some flavor of manslaughter.

DragonBits · May 16, 2020

Cataceous said:
A cursory reading of her story doesn't get into what level of due process she received. The first time she was confined:

Under sections 1169 and 1170 of the Greater New York Charter, she was arrested as a public health threat. Under questioning, she admitted that she almost never washed her hands.[R]

It doesn't seem likely the Supreme Court weighed in on these statutes. In any case, her behavior was pretty egregious; they released her in 1910 after she promised to protect others, but she returned to her old ways—being a cook with poor hygiene—sickening many more and killing some.

After arresting her, public health authorities returned her to quarantine on North Brother Island on March 27, 1915.

Even if she didn't get proper legal due process at the time, it seems as though the state had more than enough evidence to prove the danger she presented. Her second arrest was even more clear-cut. She was certainly guilty of some flavor of manslaughter.

The story I read said she did sue the health department and New York Supreme Court denied her petition.

Based on Soper’s sleuthing, the New York City Health Department took Mallon into custody in 1907 and placed her into forced confinement inside a bungalow on 16-acre North Brother Island, off the Bronx shoreline, with only a fox terrier as a companion. “I never had typhoid in my life and have always been healthy,” Mallon wrote. “Why should I be banished like a leper and compelled to live in solitary confinement with only a dog for a companion?” Armed with test results from a private laboratory that came up negative, Mallon in 1909 sued the health department for her freedom, but the New York Supreme Court denied her petition. Where did Mallon get the money to hire a lawyer and pay the legal bills? Leavitt says speculation has fallen on newspaper magnate William Randolph Hearst, who “had done so for other people whose stories interested his newspaper’s readers.” In 1910, new health commissioner Ernst Lederle agreed to release Mallon if she pledged never to work as a cook again.

I agree, the state did have more than enough evidence to prove the danger she presented.

But the danger she represented was being asymptomatic and ignoring the health of others. (Despite the fact that hundreds of other asymptomatic carriers had been identified, she behaved in a way that ignored the health of society.

Which seems to be the principal we had been debating, can the US government limit your freedom if you are acting in a way to endanger the health of others even though it's not spelled out in the constitution or are there any laws I am aware of that she broke.

Cataceous · May 16, 2020

DragonBits said:
...
Which seems to be the principal we had been debating, can the US government limit your freedom if you are acting in a way to endanger the health of others even though it's not spelled out in the constitution or are there any laws I am aware of that she broke.

The way I understand it, the government cannot issue a blanket denial of constitutional rights. It must instead use due process on an individual basis to prove that the someone is endangering the rights of others. A case such as Mary Mallon's is then pretty straightforward. But a blanket denial of the right to assemble is almost certainly not going to fly.

Tony Dco · May 16, 2020

I went to the emergency room Feb 12 from abnormal heart rhythm , I have heart disease. I also had a initial flu test that came back negative. I was given another flu test that took 3 days for the result and it was positive, but i was not treated for the flu. I was having heart issues. I had no lung congestion, cough, sweating, only a temp of 101 for 2-3 days. I recently asked my doctor if I had Clovid and he said back then they didn't even know about it. I believe the reason why my flu was so mild is because of my VD3 level.

Anyway, I am a strong believer in hydroxychloroquine. There are many doctors that have used hydroxy successfully, even in severe cases. Patients improve in several hours. I read the NIH is finally going to study hydroxy and z-pad.

Two things to mention, first is VD3. Dr. Mercola published an article on the benefit of VD3 against Clovid. VD3 also protects against, or at least makes milder case of colds, flu's, infections, cancer, etc. What's nice VD3 works similar to hydroxy; it increases the "adaptive" immune response and reduces the deadly "cytokine storm". A minimum of 30ng/ml for good benefit. Mine is 60, my wife is 80. Optimal is about 60-80ng/dl, imo.

Are COVID Countermeasures Working? Here's What Data Reveal

Data from Israel, where majority of the population has been "vaccinated," expose the infection rates between the "vaccinated" and unvaccinated.

articles.mercola.com

They claim 99% of the virus enters the nose. Dr. Mercola recommends an inexpensive nebulizer and to use 3% H2O2 to kill and viruses. Dr. Axe recommends using a high quality colloidal silver product. Ionic silver is good for surface disinfectant, while particle silver with a high particle surface area is the best. Most of the silver sold is only effective on surfaces from what I've learned.

I will be using the CS because it can kill more pathogens than H2O2. if I begin to have any flu/cold/Clovid symptoms, I will use the nebulizer w/CS for about 10-15 minutes and 3x per day inhaling 2/3 through the nasal passages, 1/3 through the mouth.

Colloidal Silver: Is It Safe? Benefits vs. Risks

Many health benefits claims are made about colloidal silver. Are they true? More importantly, is it safe? We investigate the risks vs. benefits.

draxe.com

PStephen · May 23, 2020

sokaiya said:
Again, you are the typical sheep to question nobody. And you are the enemy (part of the problem) as you have no issue falling in line with a system of control. Because one day, you'll have no problem turning on the rest of us for not doing so.

A Covid-19 particle size averages 0.125 microns. You would need an electron microscope to see a virus particle. A N95 mask filters it down to 0.3 microns. N95 masks block few, if any virions (virus particles). It's a simple fact which you can't argue against. Surgical masks, cloth masks, homemade masks:

1.) allow fee passage both ways (in and out) for Covid 19 virions
2.) become warm/damp/moist reservoir of Covid 19 particles in asymptomatic carriers

For surgeons, from years of training and intimidation, are taught to touch NOTHING but their surgical field. Lay people constantly touch, re-arrange, and manipulate their "masks" all the while inoculating thousands of virus particles onto their bare or (even worse, gloved) hands.

Therefore, these absurd masks ENCOURAGE the fomite transmission ("infected" articles-to-hand-to face transmission of the virus).

So, go ahead and allow idiots to delude and mislead you to the false sense of security and danger of masks!

You’re reciting a bunch of shit someone told you on the internet

PStephen · May 23, 2020

Tony Dco said:
Two things to mention, first is VD3. Dr. Mercola published an article..-
Dr. Mercola recommends...

Mercola is universally known to be full of shit. How can you not know that?

themud · Jun 4, 2020

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

Taking out nursing home deaths, the IFR is .1%. Including nursing homes it is .26%.

I know of 3 people personally (one was a HS friend with a small business and engaged to be married this July) who have committed suicide from having their small business shut down. Another friend who is a police officer said he had 7 suicide runs in one shift and more in the same 24 hour period. Domestic violence has sky rocketed, child abuse...

Zero logic. Daycares can stay open, but playgrounds are closed? Here in CO marijuana was illegal 5 years ago. Now it's an essential business that can remain open. Liquor stores are open. Since when has alcohol been a necessity for living?

Walmart is open, but churches are closed?

You can go on a blind date on Tinder or Grindr, but you can't take your wife out?

WTF are you guys on? This site was a godsend when I needed help, but the common sense I am seeing is pathetic. What are we France? Since when have Americans been afraid of the boogey man? During the Spanish Flu pandemic men were literally falling over dead in line trying to sign up for the military and they would drag the bodies away. Now I see people that won't even open their home windows and wear masks in their cars with the windows rolled up.

Would I knowingly have sex with someone with HIV? What a stupid question not worth an answer.

Just because they have speed limits and stop signs doesn't equate to forcing me to stop driving. That's equivalent to "wash your hands after using the restroom". They are things we have in place logically.

What happens when it mutates and comes back as a different strain next year? Shut the country down again? Do we start shutting down the country every year now?

If you feel like being a sheep, by all means. But this country was built on the courage of those who take risks including their own health and lives. If you are scared, then stay home and if you get it, don't blame those who are "risking" their own health to keep things moving along.

66% of those going into NY hospitals with the virus were staying at home and self isolating. The idiots in charge are wondering how they got it? Really?

PStephen · Jun 4, 2020

themud said:
ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

During the Spanish Flu pandemic men were literally falling over dead in line trying to sign up for the military and they would drag the bodies away.

And this idiocy led to the deaths of one third of the population of the planet

DragonBits · Jun 4, 2020

Speaking of zero logic, why are protests OK but outdoor concerts a big concern?

It's going to be very interesting to see how big a bump we get in 2 weeks.

I have no expectation of what the protests are going to mean to future covid- infections, it will be nice if it isn't a big deal.

Renman23 · Jun 4, 2020

DragonBits said:
Speaking of zero logic, why are protests OK but outdoor concerts a big concern?

It's going to be very interesting to see how big a bump we get in 2 weeks.

I have no expectation of what the protests are going to mean to future covid- infections, it will be nice if it isn't a big deal.

I already know of Several people who contracted Covid-19 after attending protests....

Cataceous · Jun 5, 2020

PStephen said:
And this idiocy led to the deaths of one third of the population of the planet

No, it was likely 1 to 3%.

... Lasting about 15 months from spring 1918 (northern hemisphere) to early summer 1919,[3][4] [the Spanish Flu] infected 500 million people – about a third of the world's population at the time.[5] The death toll is estimated to have been anywhere from 17 million to 50 million, and possibly as high as 100 million, making it one of the deadliest pandemics in human history.[6]