What is Optimal Estradiol Range for Libido/Erection

[Vonko1988]

now that hurt my head. How long you’ve been around these forums. Many people feel great with out daily injections.

Many do not. 90 percent of people with issues are not doing daily. Im a programmer and Im good with numbers. Im tired of talking this the same over and over again...

So you asked me what is the same way of balancing e2 and t in my mind? Doing daily sub q enanthate, if that fails scrotal cream. I have no other sensible answer. Ive never heard anybody who tried this both to fail

 

[antelopers]

Many do not. 90 percent of people with issues are not doing daily. Im a programmer and Im good with numbers. Im tired of talking this the same over and over again...

So you asked me what is the same way of balancing e2 and t in my mind? Doing daily sub q enanthate, if that fails scrotal cream. I have no other sensible answer. Ive never heard anybody who tried this both to fail

And there are plenty of people, even on this forum, who tried daily injections and had no benefits, or even a regression. And who don't tolerate or feel well on the cream. Just because people are having issues doesn't automatically mean it's because they're not doing daily injections

 

[sh1973]

Yeah I will second that as well, daily injections are pretty rare from what I’ve seen Dr Saya even posted an article talking about pooling and daily injections having an accumulative effect in some of his patients sending their levels sky high. For that matter there are a few men, two of which I know that have success with once E2 weeks. That’s the thing that pisses me off about that ******** group as they say it’s their way or no way. They state everyone has to do scrotal T or every day injections to feel good and that’s just completely inaccurate. Through the polls over the years twice weekly and once weekly seem to be the most popular choice in men that state they’re doing well.

 

[Cataceous]

... also my research points many guys aromatize on enanthate less than cypionate. ...

This is highly implausible. Estradiol can't even be formed until testosterone is separated from the ester, and enanthate and cypionate have very similar pharmacokinetics. My own data show the same rate of aromatization with these two esters.

 

[Charliebizz]

Many do not. 90 percent of people with issues are not doing daily. Im a programmer and Im good with numbers. Im tired of talking this the same over and over again...

So you asked me what is the same way of balancing e2 and t in my mind? Doing daily sub q enanthate, if that fails scrotal cream. I have no other sensible answer. Ive never heard anybody who tried this both to fail

My point is if t follows e it’s a non issue. And what the hell does being a programmer have to do with pulling numbers out of your ass. Where did you poll these people? 90% of how many come on man this is getting silly now

 

[sh1973]

They’re identical other than cypionate being 1 carbon chain longer. I’ve taken both a few times and cannot tell any difference whatsoever in these two formulations. Honestly even though cypionate is supposed to have a slightly longer half-life my levels on both of these were within 10 or 15 points at the end of the week of each other.

 

[Appassionato]

Dude, Im not a part of this group.
First I believe e should follow t, only if you inject DAILY. And yes, you can still have issues and yes you can do other things except ai in case you have high e2 symptoms(not high e2 on paper) High doses zinc citrate, scrotal cream instead of injections, also my research points many guys aromatize on enanthate less than cypionate. Why, cannot tell and sorry I cannot provide studies.
In my personal understanding everything more rare than daily injections can cause disbalance in these two. And I dont care people are lazy, affraid of needles or believe in the testosterone esters half life. My simple logic in taking anything in my body is that small and frequent is better than rare and bigger dose. Always. You want less pokes or to feel better? Ive made my choice. Im doind 2 injections every day and I dont care. At best I will soon merge them in one. Every single day
Yes, some people get away with once or twice a week injections, but very few can be really optimized in such schedule. This is how I see it.
And yes, body fat do matter. I have some as well.

Dude, you have been told already that many of us does actually worse on daily injections.
In my case in particular, E2 was the double on daily injections, despite the same T levels.

Pharmacokinetics are pharmacokinetics, just live with that. Then obviously there are exceptions.

 

[Appassionato]

So you asked me what is the same way of balancing e2 and t in my mind? Doing daily sub q enanthate, if that fails scrotal cream. I have no other sensible answer. Ive never heard anybody who tried this both to fail

I'm yet to see any study or anecdotal experience showing sub-q is producing less aromatization.
I tried once, according to Dr Crisler instructions, and got a bad lower abs pain.
Also, if you are lean, it gets complicated to do sub-q.

 

[Cataceous]

I'm yet to see any study or anecdotal experience showing sub-q is producing less aromatization.
I tried once, according to Dr Crisler instructions, and got a bad lower abs pain.
Also, if you are lean, it gets complicated to do sub-q.

The Antares clinical trial for XYOSTED shows the same rates of aromatization for IM and SubQ.

 

[Appassionato]

The Antares clinical trial for XYOSTED shows the same rates of aromatization for IM and SubQ.

Another myth busted.

 

[antelopers]

I'm yet to see any study or anecdotal experience showing sub-q is producing less aromatization.
I tried once, according to Dr Crisler instructions, and got a bad lower abs pain.
Also, if you are lean, it gets complicated to do sub-q.

I had significantly higher aromatization on subq with the same dose as IM, but that may just be me individually. And another reason people thought subq aromatized less is because Crisler compared twice weekly subq to once weekly IM. I bet the aromatization rates would be nearly identical in most guys if both were done twice a week.

 

[Cataceous]

I had significantly higher aromatization on subq with the same dose as IM, but that may just be me individually. ...

The longer half-life of SubQ means that trough hormone levels may be higher than those seen with IM, even though average levels are the same. Could this be part of the explanation?

 

[antelopers]

The longer half-life of SubQ means that trough hormone levels may be higher than those seen with IM, even though average levels are the same. Could this be part of the explanation?

Possibly, but my trough T levels were almost exactly the same, but e2 was 30 points higher.

 

[Charliebizz]

Possibly, but my trough T levels were almost exactly the same, but e2 was 30 points higher.

A doctor on ******** says this

Serum estradiol numbers do NOT drive tissue action, so in fact, no, the "absolute numbers" are actually not that important.

They can be CORRELATIVE with total tissue aromatization, but they aren't driving the action.

None of the symptoms you mentioned above fall in line with "high e2" effects.

Many studies on this. And men with estradiol > 50 pg/mL (not 5) have better libido in that one study mentioned.

There IS a 'minimum" threshold of estradiol needed for bone health, and that level is higher than 12. So you are in no way even protecting your bones by keeping estradiol in that range.

This is just all too common. You have done this long enough that you've convinced yourself you NEED the AI. I see it daily. It's like crack.

and when guys try and wean off, and their penis doesn't work for awhile, or they get nipple sensitivity, etc, they won't stay off long enough to let things even out.

you can ask a HUGE number of guys in this forum about this...guys who used to say the EXACT same thing you're saying here. almost verbatim, just with different #'s.

what you guys think ?

 

[Vonko1988]

Serum estradiol numbers do NOT drive tissue action, so in fact, no, the "absolute numbers" are actually not that important.

They can be CORRELATIVE with total tissue aromatization, but they aren't driving the action.

Voala

 

[Vonko1988]

Dudes, Ive personally talked a few months dr Saya about daily injections. He said “Yes, in most people they work best, but many prople dont wanna adhere to such protocol”.

It was a few months ago and I havent yet decided to start TRT, but he approved if im willing to best to start with daily.

About sub-q aromatizing less in most people its half life is longer. If the half life is longer the peak is less and e2 spike is less. For some reason many guys claim cannot do well on sub-q, but dr Nichols says he personally haven't seen any provided he is taking enough.

Guys, Im only citing some of the best doctors in your country. Unfortunately in mine I have none. I wish I had here one like Dr Saya, Keith Nichols or Rob Kominiarek, but thats life

About enanthate aromatizing less I know it doesnt make sense, but around ten people have reported me that on various forums ON the SAME dose like cypionate and no other changes. Also in my gym the steroid guys reported me the same. You can accept this as complete bro science I have no evidence to back it up. Lucky you, because for pharmaceutical enanthate I need to travel to neighbouring country, and pharmacetical cypionate is no where near around. And im not taking ugl stuff...

I think I made a mistake preferring sustanon only because I can get it here in Bulgaria, but still any test is better than no test...

 

[Charliebizz]

Dudes, Ive personally talked a few months dr Saya about daily injections. He said “Yes, in most people they work best, but many prople dont wanna adhere to such protocol”.

It was a few months ago and I havent yet decided to start TRT, but he approved if im willing to best to start with daily.

About sub-q aromatizing less in most people its half life is longer. If the half life is longer the peak is less and e2 spike is less. For some reason many guys claim cannot do well on sub-q, but dr Nichols says he personally haven't seen any provided he is taking enough.

Guys, Im only citing some of the best doctors in your country. Unfortunately in mine I have none. I wish I had here one like Dr Saya, Keith Nichols or Rob Kominiarek, but thats life

About enanthate aromatizing less I know it doesnt make sense, but around ten people have reported me that on various forums ON the SAME dose like cypionate and no other changes. Also in my gym the steroid guys reported me the same. You can accept this as complete bro science I have no evidence to back it up. Lucky you, because for pharmaceutical enanthate I need to travel to neighbouring country, and pharmacetical cypionate is no where near around. And im not taking ugl stuff...

I think I made a mistake preferring sustanon only because I can get it here in Bulgaria, but still any test is better than no test...

10 people bro really. This is mind numbing now

 

[Vonko1988]

10 people bro really. This is mind numbing now

You got only that from my post

 

[Cataceous]

...
I think I made a mistake preferring sustanon only because I can get it here in Bulgaria, but still any test is better than no test...

Sustanon should be fine. Used daily it's doubtful anyone would notice a difference between it and cypionate or enanthate. The one drawback is the longer stabilization period.

 

[equel]

Im spreading what the science, good studies and the best in the industry like Neil Rouzier state BACKED BY SCIENCE, no myths and bro fears of estrogen.

By the way I had a test today, my total T is around 1400 and e2 is 81. I feel awesome, libido is better than ever and my sleep improved after I stopped the magnesium. Part of the big numbers is I inject HCG every evening including the night before the test.

I know at least 10 guys with over 50 e2 and zero issues. I know on the other hand guys who had e2 of 10-20 with all kinds of issues.

And this guy here is BLOCKING the estrogen so these levels are not natural to him in any ways.

Seriously, every time I read your posts I just cringe, what the fuck are you even doing? You are making a god damn joke out of yourself. Do you have zero self awareness?