What is Optimal Estradiol Range for Libido/Erection

[equel]

E2 in the serum is very little part of the story because e2 is a peripheral hormone. It aromatizes and acts mainly in the tissues and we have no idea what is happening there.

The same way you tell me there are people sensitive to e2 values, I know at least 20 people with e2 over 60 and zero issues. There are people with e2 around 100, 120. How healthy is that Im not sure, but at least 3 of them have been like that for 3-5 years with zero issues.

Jesus fucking christ dude, do you even know what you are saying? THE SAME IS TO BE SAID ABOUT TESTOSTERONE.

You are just parroting what uve heard on an interview on the hormone optimization channel, but you dont really understand it, but you say it either way, jesus christ im cringing so hard reading your nonsense.

 

[equel]

Immediately to my mind comes a guy who started to feel optimal when he put his total t around 2000. And he was very slowly increasing it to that point for a period of one year.
I think his e2 is above 100 but not sure how much.
And he feels AWESOME, libido, sleep, mood and workouts rock

Are you freaking kidding me or some shit?

I feel "awesome" on 500mg of T a week too, "GREAT MOOD AND WORKOUTS", do u think that is good long term?

My gosh, some of you folks from that freaking group are the cringiest persons in damn existence.

 

[equel]

Of course they will not. Everyone today has shitty testosterone, but should we accept that? I dont. As I said for me 1500 total t is a decent number for a healthy young men, EVEN thought today NOBODY HAS SUCH levels naturally

By the way I know one guy who has 1300 naturally. The stupid endo told him it is too much. This guy is a genetic freak. He smokes, drinks and doesnt do sports and eats shit

Studies from the 60s show average levels for young men are 600ng/dl.

 

[sh1973]

Studies from the 60s show average levels for young men are 600ng/dl.

Exactly right, there’s zero proof anywhere that shows guys t levels were 1500-2000ng ever. I don’t know where this shit ever started. Just because lab ranges were higher a few years ago gives people like this the ammo to think we’re cavemen again lol.

 

[Cataceous]

Studies from the 60s show average levels for young men are 600ng/dl.

Not to mention that those were peak values. This means realistically it's 600 ng/dL when they wake up and more like 400 ng/dL before they go to bed.

 

[Vonko1988]

Sustanon should be fine. Used daily it's doubtful anyone would notice a difference between it and cypionate or enanthate. The one drawback is the longer stabilization period.

On theory, but this sustanon is too complicated because the peaks of the short esters

 

[Cataceous]

On theory, but this sustanon is too complicated because the peaks of the short esters

The point is these short esters are a small enough fraction that they don't lead to that much variation. I can try to put an upper limit on it. I've found that daily propionate can cause serum variations up to 60% about the mean. Let's say that phenylpropionate tops out at about half that, 30%. We ignore variations in isocaproate and decanoate because they're small. So the maximum variation with daily Sustanon is (30 * 0.6 + 60 * 0.3) / 250 = 14% variation about the mean. This is a pretty small figure. To put it in perspective, in theory a guy injecting cypionate EOD would be getting almost that much variation.

 

[Charliebizz]

Studies from the 60s show average levels for young men are 600ng/dl.

But bro your not understanding the androgen resistance and the edc bro. (Sarcasm). I love the androgen resistant one the best when the guy is legit 6ft 230 8% body fat claiming he has it to justify his roid cycle lol

 

[Charliebizz]

The other argument about optimal and Feeling amazing every minute of the day and feel like we did in our early 20s. How many people were lazy fucks late teens early 20s. Took naps and slept in. Now we 35 and up sleep max 6 hours a night have kids a career and think trt is going to make us feel amazing every minute of the day.

but if you hear it from 10 out of millions of people it must be true

 

[Appassionato]

This peripheral thing about E2 is so stupid I can't even believe people are actually falling for it.
We don't know how the hell all the hormones in the blood stream are going to affect tissues. What's been said for E2, it's the same for all the hormones, including testosterone.
There have been extensive studies on DHT regarding tissue levels in scalp and prostate, but you guys are falling for this stupid nonsense by jacked reckless doctors that are taking your money and do even more of with the YouTube channels.

Vonko wake up! You are the one in charge of your health and the one that will suffer from doctors stupidity.

 

[Vonko1988]

This peripheral thing about E2 is so stupid I can't even believe people are actually falling for it.
We don't know how the hell all the hormones in the blood stream are going to affect tissues. What's been said for E2, it's the same for all the hormones, including testosterone.
There have been extensive studies on DHT regarding tissue levels in scalp and prostate, but you guys are falling for this stupid nonsense by jacked reckless doctors that are taking your money and do even more of with the YouTube channels.

Vonko wake up! You are the one in charge of your health and the one that will suffer from doctors stupidity.

From where F I should wake up? Im continuing to do what I do because Im feeling much better than before thanks to the guidance of the “stupid” doctors. I feel optimized and I can tell the difference. Except the relatively small sleeping issue. And trust me, the lack of depression, energy, mood and libido are not a placebo. Just life feels good again. Thats why Im so passionate writing so much here.

I see here guys with a lot bigger issues than me including OP.

 

[MarcoFL]

Jesus fucking christ dude, do you even know what you are saying? THE SAME IS TO BE SAID ABOUT TESTOSTERONE.

You are just parroting what uve heard on an interview on the hormone optimization channel, but you dont really understand it, but you say it either way, jesus christ im cringing so hard reading your nonsense.

I love learning from you guys but can we drop some of the language please?

 

[equel]

Not to mention that those were peak values. This means realistically it's 600 ng/dL when they wake up and more like 400 ng/dL before they go to bed.

Yes. I have zero idea where Jay Campbell, Danny Bossa etc got the weird idea that "uuh 50 years ago man, every man had 2000ng/dl natty!!", NO, that is simply not true.

Average amongs YOUNG HEALTHY MALES (25-34 or some shit) in the 90s were 661ng/dl or whatever.

Same 30 years earlier.

It is true that this number has fallen the last couple years, Ive even seen some studies showing average T levels of like 350ng/dl for young men, I have no idea what the fuck is going on in our western world now, but there has never been one study demonstrating that most men walked around with 1000ng/dl just lol.


More is seldom better, and many guys - including my self - seem to FEEL much better on low/moderate dosages.

Personally, my libido dissapears completely in high dose testosterone, its just gone. And I even had libido and erections on 260ng/dl natty.

So, 260ng/dl = libido and erections.
2000ng/dl = zero libido, zero erections.


Our bodies are simply made to "need" a certain kind of level, and going too far outside that level screws things up.

 

[Appassionato]

From where F I should wake up? Im continuing to do what I do because Im feeling much better than before thanks to the guidance of the “stupid” doctors. I feel optimized and I can tell the difference. Except the relatively small sleeping issue. And trust me, the lack of depression, energy, mood and libido are not a placebo. Just life feels good again. Thats why Im so passionate writing so much here.

I see here guys with a lot bigger issues than me including OP.

Yeah, having insomnia means feeling optimised.
You didn't even try to run "normal" levels and just jumped on a supra physiological dose.

Where are your PSA and blood lipids test result? Did you check them?

 

[Vonko1988]

Yeah, having insomnia means feeling optimised.
You didn't even try to run "normal" levels and just jumped on a supra physiological dose.

Where are your PSA and blood lipids test result? Did you check them?

Do you f know what is insomnia? Insomnia is not being able to sleep whole night. Ive had that 7 years ago

All my reading are perfect. And total t of 1400 is not supra, it was at the top of the range 10 years ago. I feel good at that level so that is my optimal level. If I start to experience sides I will co sider reducing

Im very lucky I dont have to deal with moronic docs telling me my levels are supra...

 

[Gman86]

Yes. I have zero idea where Jay Campbell, Danny Bossa etc got the weird idea that "uuh 50 years ago man, every man had 2000ng/dl natty!!", NO, that is simply not true.

Average amongs YOUNG HEALTHY MALES (25-34 or some shit) in the 90s were 661ng/dl or whatever.

Same 30 years earlier.

It is true that this number has fallen the last couple years, Ive even seen some studies showing average T levels of like 350ng/dl for young men, I have no idea what the fuck is going on in our western world now, but there has never been one study demonstrating that most men walked around with 1000ng/dl just lol.


More is seldom better, and many guys - including my self - seem to FEEL much better on low/moderate dosages.

Personally, my libido dissapears completely in high dose testosterone, its just gone. And I even had libido and erections on 260ng/dl natty.

So, 260ng/dl = libido and erections.
2000ng/dl = zero libido, zero erections.


Our bodies are simply made to "need" a certain kind of level, and going too far outside that level screws things up.

Im pretty sure that generations ago young males had considerably higher average levels than we do now, but not crazy high like most people think. I’m pretty sure generations ago young males had lower levels of SHBG, and yes they had higher levels of total T, but it was their free T that was most likely considerably higher than what we see on average nowadays.

A few years back, for sh*ts and giggles, I had my dads friend get his testosterone checked at his regular doctors checkup. He was 63 at the time, and his total came back at 736. At 27 years old my total was mid 600’s. Obviously everyone is different, but I truly feel that generations ago men’s genetics were more resilient to everything that’s lowering young male’s testosterone levels today. I bet the average total T levels in young 16-20 year olds today are pretty poor. The effects that all these screens and artificial lights are having on their sleep is atrocious. That’s just one factor effecting young males more so than our grandparents generation. The list obviously goes on and on.

 

[Vonko1988]

Im pretty sure that generations ago young males had considerably higher average levels than we do now, but not crazy high like most people think. I’m pretty sure generations ago young males had lower levels of SHBG, and yes they had higher levels of total T, but it was their free T that was most likely considerably higher than what we see on average nowadays.

A few years back, for sh*ts and giggles, I had my dads friend get his testosterone checked at his regular doctors checkup. He was 63 at the time, and his total came back at 736. At 27 years old my total was mid 600’s. Obviously everyone is different, but I truly feel that generations ago men’s genetics were more resilient to everything that’s lowering young male’s testosterone levels today. I bet the average total T levels in young 16-20 year olds today are pretty poor. The effects that all these screens and artificial lights are having on their sleep is atrocious. That’s just one factor effecting young males more so than our grandparents generation. The list obviously goes on and on.

Im pretty sure that generations ago young males had considerably higher average levels than we do now, but not crazy high like most people think. I’m pretty sure generations ago young males had lower levels of SHBG, and yes they had higher levels of total T, but it was their free T that was most likely considerably higher than what we see on average nowadays.

A few years back, for sh*ts and giggles, I had my dads friend get his testosterone checked at his regular doctors checkup. He was 63 at the time, and his total came back at 736. At 27 years old my total was mid 600’s. Obviously everyone is different, but I truly feel that generations ago men’s genetics were more resilient to everything that’s lowering young male’s testosterone levels today. I bet the average total T levels in young 16-20 year olds today are pretty poor. The effects that all these screens and artificial lights are having on their sleep is atrocious. That’s just one factor effecting young males more so than our grandparents generation. The list obviously goes on and on.

And add to that the cellular receptor resistance that most people here deny, and you have the answer why some people need higher levels.

Why then many people cannot get symptoms relief at 1000 for example but get at 1500? If the problem was thyroid or something else 1500 would not do it as well.

 

[Gman86]

And add to that the cellular receptor resistance that most people here deny, and you have the answer why some people need higher levels.

Why then many people cannot get symptoms relief at 1000 for example but get at 1500? If the problem was thyroid or something else 1500 would not do it as well.

Ya not sure why nobody understands testosterone resistance. They understand that insulin resistance is a real thing, but they think androgen receptors are magical or something. All receptors in the body can have varying levels of resistance. It’s just a mechanism of receptors. Androgen receptors are no different.

 

[Appassionato]

Do you f know what is insomnia? Insomnia is not being able to sleep whole night. Ive had that 7 years ago

All my reading are perfect. And total t of 1400 is not supra, it was at the top of the range 10 years ago. I feel good at that level so that is my optimal level. If I start to experience sides I will co sider reducing

Im very lucky I dont have to deal with moronic docs telling me my levels are supra...

There are serious ignorance going on here.
Insomnia is labeled as the inability to fall asleep or to stay asleep.
I can fall asleep without any problem. The problem is that I wake up at least twice per night if I'm lucky.

Your total T is 1400 at through. Is it hard to understand that even if this is happening in some exceptions, these guys were having high SHBG? Did you calculate your free T?

Ya not sure why nobody understands testosterone resistance. They understand that insulin resistance is a real thing, but they think androgen receptors are magical or something. All receptors in the body can have varying levels of resistance. It’s just a mechanism of receptors. Androgen receptors are no different.

Insulin resistance is a well documented condition in medical literature. While Androgen resistance is a rarity. Once again, justifying abnormalities with the exceptions.

 

[Vonko1988]

Your total T is 1400 at through. Is it hard to understand that even if this is happening in some exceptions, these guys were having high SHBG? Did you calculate your free T?

Dude, I dont have peaks and troughs Even this may be peak value because Im taking HCG evening time before the blood test. Im not sure when HCG peaks

My free t was 35ng/dl. Perfect number