The late Dr. Leo Zacharski, who was an expert in iron metabolism, says that a ferritin between 50 - 100 is the optimal range. His research revealed that the body cannot make use of a ferritin above 80 to increase hemoglobin levels, or red blood cell formation. I know this goes against the grain of thought of many on this forum, but too much ferritin is as damaging and dangerous as too little according to Zacharski.
Warning for Men on TRT: Low Ferritin is Bad
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Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
I've also never had to donate
madman
Super Moderator
A ferritin level of 100-150 ng/mL would be considered far from too high!
Most should aim for 100 ng/dL.
Donating too frequently will make it difficult to maintain healthy levels.
Adult reference range 30-400 ng/mL
Iron Deficiency Without Anemia – Common, Important, Neglected
Iron Deficiency Without Anemia – Common, Important, Neglected (2019) Esa Soppi* Department of internal medicine, Eira Hospital, Laivurinkatu 29, FI-00150 Helsinki, Finland Abstract A serum ferritin concentration of
www.excelmale.com
*A serum ferritin concentration of <30 µg/L is the most sensitive and specific test for the identification of iron deficiency in patients with or without anemia. However, patients may be iron deficient at much higher concentrations of ferritin.
"The development of iron deficiency anemia is a gradual process. If your body is not taking in enough iron, your body first uses the iron that is stored in tissues (i.e., ferritin) and blood levels of ferritin will begin to decrease. If not corrected, the stored iron begins to be depleted as it is used in the production of red blood cells. In the early stages of iron-deficiency, blood levels of iron can be normal while stored iron, and therefore ferritin levels, will begin to decrease"
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
How does this apply to men on trt. Like I said off trt my ferritin runs around 150. But my hemo is about a point lower natural and hct is about half a point lower natural. But on trt my ferritin has dropped to 51A ferritin level of 100-150 ng/mL would be considered far from too high!
Most should aim for 100 ng/dL.
Donating too frequently will make it difficult to maintain healthy levels.
Adult reference range 30-400 ng/mL
View attachment 13301
Iron Deficiency Without Anemia – Common, Important, Neglected
Iron Deficiency Without Anemia – Common, Important, Neglected (2019) Esa Soppi* Department of internal medicine, Eira Hospital, Laivurinkatu 29, FI-00150 Helsinki, Finland Abstract A serum ferritin concentration of
*A serum ferritin concentration of <30 µg/L is the most sensitive and specific test for the identification of iron deficiency in patients with or without anemia. However, patients may be iron deficient at much higher concentrations of ferritin.
"The development of iron deficiency anemia is a gradual process. If your body is not taking in enough iron, your body first uses the iron that is stored in tissues (i.e., ferritin) and blood levels of ferritin will begin to decrease. If not corrected, the stored iron begins to be depleted as it is used in the production of red blood cells. In the early stages of iron-deficiency, blood levels of iron can be normal while stored iron, and therefore ferritin levels, will begin to decrease"
What is the mechanism that exogenous testosterone inhibits hepcidin. Can it be too high of a dose ?
Last edited:
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
Great video. Made me feel alot better abouty situation. I do want to look further into his work
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
Anyone have any insight on this ?
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
Interesting study. But can trt lowering ferritin actually cause issues. That's what I'm not clear on
academic.oup.com
Testosterone Induces Erythrocytosis via Increased Erythropoietin and Suppressed Hepcidin: Evidence for a New Erythropoietin/Hemoglobin Set Point
AbstractBackground.. The mechanisms by which testosterone increases hemoglobin and hematocrit remain unclear.Methods.. We assessed the hormonal and hematol
academic.oup.com
Nelson Vergel
Founder, ExcelMale.com
Interesting study and possibility to lower hematocrit
www.excelmale.com
Decreasing High Hematocrit: Genistein is an agonist of hepcidin
Hello: Hematocrit increase is a very known side of TRT. Some studies conclude that testosterone reduces hepcidin (an hepatic hormone) which is related with iron absorptions paths. When hepcidin is reduced erythrocytosis is increased: Testosterone suppresses hepcidin in men: a potential...
www.excelmale.com
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
My ferritin dropped from 157 to 51 being on trt for a year. But my rbc counts are fine. I know 50 is still acceptable. But what if it continues to drop? Will it actually cause symptoms in it self having low ferritin from trt ?Interesting study and possibility to lower hematocrit
Decreasing High Hematocrit: Genistein is an agonist of hepcidin
Hello: Hematocrit increase is a very known side of TRT. Some studies conclude that testosterone reduces hepcidin (an hepatic hormone) which is related with iron absorptions paths. When hepcidin is reduced erythrocytosis is increased: Testosterone suppresses hepcidin in men: a potential...
ivkonst2017
Active Member
Has somebody else except me suffered from too high iron 
Ferritin is always about midrange, little below or little above.
Blood counts are also perfect, hemoglobin has never been higher than 167 and hematocrit never higher than 48, even on t levels of 1300-1400(I try to keep them around 1200)
Ferritin is always about midrange, little below or little above.Blood counts are also perfect, hemoglobin has never been higher than 167 and hematocrit never higher than 48, even on t levels of 1300-1400(I try to keep them around 1200)
Nelson - have you summarized your thinking on this topic anywhere? Am very interested to hear if so, ferritin consistenty around 20, not responding to iron supplements, no symptoms, hematocrit 49. Thanks.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know if trt effects on ferritin are lessened by using cream vs injections like some report with its effects on hematocrit or cholesterol?
ivkonst2017
Active Member
I think this is something too relative. Everything with cream is very relative, until you try it I think nobody can tell you.
For me the cream didnt work, on 200mg per day I had only 600ng/dl in blood. Also I had terrible anxiety, but erection was rock solid. Still erection is not a priority especially when I feel mentally terrible.
What I have also noticed for me is on IM injections I get higher iron than sub-q.
And as I said in the other threads sustanon is the only TRT product that works for me. I hope you find what works for you as well, you gotta try different sensible systems with respective sensible protocols and give them enough time. For example for cream I think for 4-6 weeks you will fully understand what is going on.
For sustanon if you wanna try it is a bit tricky. When I switch to it immediately I start to feel a bit better, but It takes up to 10 weeks to achieve stable serum levels. It is really tricky ester to use, your serum levels will always vary even if you use it on its correct schedule of EOD and you will not really know how much your total t is
But in my mind this is far more natural for the body than having a flat-out stable t level all the time
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
I really think I pinpointed the cause of my headaches. Seems as if I just can't tolerate to high ft and in last labs seems like that's what happens at my peak. I seem to start getting the headaches about 7 hours after injection and then the day after headache starts to get less and less. I inject m-w-f. I tend to have the headaches worse on injection day and usually don't have it on Sundays. So I think I might have to give daily injections another run and lower my overall dose a bit. I currently do 90mg a week split 30mg m-w-f.10 hours After my 30 mg shot on Weds my tt was 879 and ft was 200. Top of range being 155 on the quest test.I think this is something too relative. Everything with cream is very relative, until you try it I think nobody can tell you.
For me the cream didnt work, on 200mg per day I had only 600ng/dl in blood. Also I had terrible anxiety, but erection was rock solid. Still erection is not a priority especially when I feel mentally terrible.
What I have also noticed for me is on IM injections I get higher iron than sub-q.
And as I said in the other threads sustanon is the only TRT product that works for me. I hope you find what works for you as well, you gotta try different sensible systems with respective sensible protocols and give them enough time. For example for cream I think for 4-6 weeks you will fully understand what is going on.
For sustanon if you wanna try it is a bit tricky. When I switch to it immediately I start to feel a bit better, but It takes up to 10 weeks to achieve stable serum levels. It is really tricky ester to use, your serum levels will always vary even if you use it on its correct schedule of EOD and you will not really know how much your total t is
Very interested in how this is going for you? I have a long history of headache struggles with multiple forms of TRT. I suspect it’s related to excess T, but just don’t know.
This problem is a general problem, that TT increases HCT and reduces Ferritin means that it is necessary not to exaggerate exogenous TT at the limits that does not compromise Ferritin and eventual problems, with a solution that is kind of contradictory with iron supplementation, as it also increases HCT. Everything has a price imposed by the body. Isn't that right?
DorianGray
Active Member
My ferritin is riding at 26 now. I wake up in the morning tired. Never felt this way before in my life. What other underlying effects or damage it may be causing, I wonder.
MilkMan
New Member
How are you attempting to address this?
DorianGray
Active Member
I want to hear what my MD says before I start monkeying around with anything. I have an appointment with him in a few days. Will post info.
OMG this thread is so powerful. I was having very good energy with TRT but after blood donation (I'm scared of 48 HCT) suddenly I feel fatigued and can't perform like before. My ferritin is 12 as of yesterday. Also, I'm eating a lot of eggs every day,, never before I knew it causes iron malabsorption.
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