TRT shot frequency

[Jay_T]

Hello, my name is Jay and I am a 59 year old male starting TRT. My testosterone level was 300, so my urologist is starting me on 100mg cypionate weekly and he wants me to split that to 2 times a week.
I've read that injecting daily is better.
Should I inject daily or even any other options or stick with the 50mg twice weekly?

 

[SteveCleves]

Personally I would start at twice a week and see how that goes before I increased frequency.

I think that people underestimate how tiresome it gets to inject every day, some people certainly are able to stick with that frequency, but I think for a lot of people, if not most, it just gets annoying.

 

[Cataceous]

I agree that in the long run it's better to inject less frequently if you can get away with it. However, there is an argument in favor of starting out with frequent injections: such a protocol makes it easy to determine your response to varying doses. Our general expectation is that after you've reached a steady state your free testosterone will be proportional to your dose rate:
FT = k * D
If you know your "k" value then you can predict your testosterone levels at different doses. This constant is most accurately determined if you have minimal variation in serum testosterone. With twice-weekly injections of testosterone cypionate there is still substantial variation in serum testosterone, with peaks as much as 50-60% above troughs. This makes it difficult to estimate your average level. With daily and maybe EOD injections, serum testosterone is usually pretty stable, and measurements at any time are a reasonable reflection of average levels.

One other bonus in starting with frequent injections is that you then have a frame of reference for what static testosterone feels like. Then you can contrast it with the variation you'll experience with twice-weekly injections. Neither protocol is exactly in line with normal physiology. It's more natural to have a diurnal rhythm, meaning you get pretty significant variation over the course of each day, but not large, multi-day swings.

Only you can decide if having the extra information is worth the effort.

 

[Willyt]

If you go the daily route, be aware that subq injections are the only practical option for the long term (unless you want to jab your muscle every day for the next 20 years). Lots of threads on here with advice for subq technique and which needles to use.

 

[Jay_T]

I agree that in the long run it's better to inject less frequently if you can get away with it. However, there is an argument in favor of starting out with frequent injections: such a protocol makes it easy to determine your response to varying doses. Our general expectation is that after you've reached a steady state your free testosterone will be proportional to your dose rate:
FT = k * D
If you know your "k" value then you can predict your testosterone levels at different doses. This constant is most accurately determined if you have minimal variation in serum testosterone. With twice-weekly injections of testosterone cypionate there is still substantial variation in serum testosterone, with peaks as much as 50-60% above troughs. This makes it difficult to estimate your average level. With daily and maybe EOD injections, serum testosterone is usually pretty stable, and measurements at any time are a reasonable reflection of average levels.

One other bonus in starting with frequent injections is that you then have a frame of reference for what static testosterone feels like. Then you can contrast it with the variation you'll experience with twice-weekly injections. Neither protocol is exactly in line with normal physiology. It's more natural to have a diurnal rhythm, meaning you get pretty significant variation over the course of each day, but not large, multi-day swings.

Only you can decide if having the extra information is worth the effort.

I didn't understand what "k" is the value of.
"D" is dosage I would think?

 

[Jay_T]

I

If you go the daily route, be aware that subq injections are the only practical option for the long term (unless you want to jab your muscle every day for the next 20 years). Lots of threads on here with advice for subq technique and which needles to use.

Ordered 100 pack 1ml 29g .5" syringe/needle.
I plan on injecting in lto my deltoids and alternating between left and right arm daily or whatever days I decide to inject.

 

[Systemlord]

I've read that injecting daily is better.

You're not going to get definite answers here, only you can find out what works for you by experimenting. What works for one guy may not work as well for someone else.

There is no one size fits all approach to TRT.

 

[Willyt]

I

Ordered 100 pack 1ml 29g .5" syringe/needle.
I plan on injecting in lto my deltoids and alternating between left and right arm daily or whatever days I decide to inject.

Ventro glute (VG) also good injection site for shallow IM. More you can rotate IM the better. Most people here avoid the quads

 

[Systemlord]

Most people here avoid the quads

I hate quad injections, too many potential nerves to hit.

 

[Jay_T]

Any recommendations for a storage case for the testosterone, syringes, band aid etc?

 

[Vince]

Hello, my name is Jay and I am a 59 year old male starting TRT. My testosterone level was 300, so my urologist is starting me on 100mg cypionate weekly and he wants me to split that to 2 times a week.
I've read that injecting daily is better.
Should I inject daily or even any other options or stick with the 50mg twice weekly?

50 mg of testosterone twice a week is not a bad protocol. Personally, I would add in some HCG along with your testosterone. At least 250 IU twice a week.

I'm one who does daily injections will be 6 years next week. Monday is part of my daily routine. I also inject 500 IU of HCG. My first started. I didn't know if I would be dedicated enough to inject daily. So far zero issues. The main reason I started so I wouldn't have to donate blood that I was getting tired of. Since I went to daily's I no longer have to donate blood. What a relief. But for some reason It doesn't work for everyone..

I also inject 500 IU of HCG twice a week. It keeps my testicles nice and full It helps with my strong libido.

 

[Jay_T]

I have decided to try daily shots first.
How long should I give it to show progress and change frequency if needed at that time?

 

[rayman]

50 mg of testosterone twice a week is not a bad protocol. Personally, I would add in some HCG along with your testosterone. At least 250 IU twice a week.

I'm one who does daily injections will be 6 years next week. Monday is part of my daily routine. I also inject 500 IU of HCG. My first started. I didn't know if I would be dedicated enough to inject daily. So far zero issues. The main reason I started so I wouldn't have to donate blood that I was getting tired of. Since I went to daily's I no longer have to donate blood. What a relief. But for some reason It doesn't work for everyone..

I also inject 500 IU of HCG twice a week. It keeps my testicles nice and full It helps with my strong libido.

Sounds good Vince. I have followed the Crisler protocol with good luck except high hematocrit which makes me donate blood every 8 wks. Argh!
So I am doing 250iu of HCG on mon and tues, and 100 mg of test cyp on wed.
Has been working ok, but could be better...

 

[Jay_T]

50 mg of testosterone twice a week is not a bad protocol. Personally, I would add in some HCG along with your testosterone. At least 250 IU twice a week.

I'm one who does daily injections will be 6 years next week. Monday is part of my daily routine. I also inject 500 IU of HCG. My first started. I didn't know if I would be dedicated enough to inject daily. So far zero issues. The main reason I started so I wouldn't have to donate blood that I was getting tired of. Since I went to daily's I no longer have to donate blood. What a relief. But for some reason It doesn't work for everyone..

I also inject 500 IU of HCG twice a week. It keeps my testicles nice and full It helps with my strong libido.

At my age I've already had testicular shrinkage and I'm not planning on having any more kids, so should I worry about HCG?

 

[rayman]

At my age I've already had testicular shrinkage and I'm not planning on having any more kids, so should I worry about HCG?

Crisler said that the HCG also helps balance hormone levels, so it's not just nut shrinkage.

 

[Systemlord]

Crisler said that the HCG also helps balance hormone levels

hCG can also throw hormones out of balance.

 

[FangFang]

At my age I've already had testicular shrinkage and I'm not planning on having any more kids, so should I worry about HCG?

I was thinking the same thing. Problem is with shrinkage came very unpleasant feelings and lack of hang. Having a testicle try to bury itself in your pelvis isn't a good feeling. I'm using some hcg and peptides to make this better. The boys feel great when they hang...it's just how it is.

I prefer shooting trt in my pec. I have good needle control and vision at this spot along with plenty of pec thickness for the shot. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Willyt]

At my age I've already had testicular shrinkage and I'm not planning on having any more kids, so should I worry about HCG?

You may want to limit your variables in the beginning and focus just on TRT, adding in HCG down the road if you feel the need. HCG is a wildcard with guys reacting very differently

 

[Jay_T]

I was thinking the same thing. Problem is with shrinkage came very unpleasant feelings and lack of hang. Having a testicle try to bury itself in your pelvis isn't a good feeling. I'm using some hcg and peptides to make this better. The boys feel great when they hang...it's just how it is.

I prefer shooting trt in my pec. I have good needle control and vision at this spot along with plenty of pec thickness for the shot. Your mileage may vary.

You may want to limit your variables in the beginning and focus just on TRT, adding in HCG down the road if you feel the need. HCG is a wildcard with guys reacting very differently

If I do need to take HCG later, will that reverse the shrinkage and shriveled nutsack?

 

[Cataceous]

I didn't understand what "k" is the value of.
"D" is dosage I would think?

The "k" is the constant you're trying to determine—it's related to your metabolic clearance rate for testosterone. When you multiply it by the dose rate you get an estimate for free testosterone:
free_testosterone = constant * dose_rate
The units for free testosterone and dose rate can be whatever's convenient. But you have to be consistent. For example, you could have free testosterone in ng/dL and dose in mg T/week. Note that the latter is different from mg of testosterone cypionate per week. You must multiply the milligrams of testosterone cypionate by 0.7 to get milligrams of testosterone.

In addition, you have to be consistent with the method used to obtain free testosterone. There are basically two choices, and ideally you'd track using both methods to see if results are similar. First, you can have a lab measure free testosterone via equilibrium dialysis. Second, you can have a lab measure total testosterone, SHBG and maybe albumin in order to calculate free testosterone with Vermeulen's equation.

I have decided to try daily shots first.
How long should I give it to show progress and change frequency if needed at that time?

If your'e willing to get lab work twice before changing to a lower injection frequency then I would wait 4-6 weeks after staring injections before getting the first set of tests. Based on these results you may want to adjust the dose to target appropriate serum levels, then repeat testing in another 4-6 weeks. At that time you would hopefully have a decent idea of your proportionate response to dose, and could then experiment with less burdensome protocols.

Ideally it's good to give any particular protocol three months before deciding about changes that are driven by subjective criteria.