"TRT/HRT/Nutrition/Cognition/Wellness/LT student of the game"

[sammmy]

You simply got high on nicotine. Nicotine is not benign to the blood vessels and long term use is not advisable. Smoking actually is associated with a higher risk of dementia so it is not supporting the claimed "benefits".

People that get better on it are benefiting from the stimulating effect overriding their underlying problem, not resolving it. Long Covid is a trash bin diagnosis just like Chronic Fatigue and Fibromyalgia - these disease states undeniably exist but the underlying multitude of possible causes are not identified so they are called "syndromes". A lot of people now are ascribed to "Long Covid" when their condition may have nothing to do with Covid.

Nicotine works for some with Long Covid but they are minority. That doesn't support the naive pseudo theory of the nicotine receptors and Covid. If one is benefiting from just the stimulating effect, tolerance is expected to develop like with all stimulants.

Moreover, nicotine is a vasoconstrictor so it is expected to raise blood pressure and it might affect erection negatively.

 

[Belekas]

You simply got high on nicotine. Nicotine is not benign to the blood vessels and long term use is not advisable. Smoking actually is associated with a higher risk of dementia so it is not supporting the claimed "benefits".

People that get better on it are benefiting from the stimulating effect overriding their underlying problem, not resolving it. Long Covid is a trash bin diagnosis just like Chronic Fatigue and Fibromyalgia - these disease states undeniably exist but the underlying multitude of possible causes are not identified so they are called "syndromes". A lot of people now are ascribed to "Long Covid" when their condition may have nothing to do with Covid.

Nicotine works for some with Long Covid but they are minority. That doesn't support the naive pseudo theory of the nicotine receptors and Covid. If one is benefiting from just the stimulating effect, tolerance is expected to develop like with all stimulants.

Moreover, nicotine is a vasoconstrictor so it is expected to raise blood pressure and it might affect erection negatively.

I understand where you coming from but I smoked for 30 years and I never got high on nicotine in first place. Second smoking is very different from Nicotine Patch. I can smoke 100 cigs and feel absolutely the same with all my symptoms and even worse. Nicotine is actually protective of brain cognitive decline but not smoking and inhaling it.

Minority or not I dont care, what I care is that it has given me my life back even for a short period of time like nothing else and all my symptoms vanished. I will continue to try and get this experiment further to see if it helps me with my main symptoms. It has helped a lot of people and its growing every day. I have been smoking weed and using cigs for 3 decades so I know what getting high is probably more then anyone on this board.

If it helps my symptom relief I'm happy to use it for life at low dose or cycle it. Thats how good I felt yesterday. Might effect might not effect nobody knows how it will react and I'm down to experiment because I havent felt that good in probably a decade. And I smoked a pile of weed which never came close to the effect Ive got yesterday. Even if theres a tradeoff I'm happy to experiment and see if it helps.

Everyone is taking risks even with TRT or your pharma meds you are taking, so I guess we all pick our poison and just try to be happy and enjoy life

 

[Gman86]

I understand where you coming from but I smoked for 30 years and I never got high on nicotine in first place. Second smoking is very different from Nicotine Patch. I can smoke 100 cigs and feel absolutely the same with all my symptoms and even worse. Nicotine is actually protective of brain cognitive decline but not smoking and inhaling it.

Minority or not I dont care, what I care is that it has given me my life back even for a short period of time like nothing else and all my symptoms vanished. I will continue to try and get this experiment further to see if it helps me with my main symptoms. It has helped a lot of people and its growing every day. I have been smoking weed and using cigs for 3 decades so I know what getting high is probably more then anyone on this board.

If it helps my symptom relief I'm happy to use it for life at low dose or cycle it. Thats how good I felt yesterday. Might effect might not effect nobody knows how it will react and I'm down to experiment because I havent felt that good in probably a decade. And I smoked a pile of weed which never came close to the effect Ive got yesterday. Even if theres a tradeoff I'm happy to experiment and see if it helps.

Everyone is taking risks even with TRT or your pharma meds you are taking, so I guess we all pick our poison and just try to be happy and enjoy life

Pros and cons to literally everything in life

 

[Belekas]

Pros and cons to literally everything in life

Exactly. If you want to feel like shit, read the mainstream research and follow mainstream doctors then good luck to ya. I'm not riding on this horse thats for sure. I'm a minority with all my symptoms and have been for a long time and whatever works for me, if the risk profile suits me then I'll gladly take the risk and enjoy the remaining half of my life feeling good like a normal fucking human being has to. Science is all or most corrupt and payed by big players in the game with only one motive in mind so I care more about real life results and anecdotes then some fucking paper published and funded by the same players in the game. And to be fair its probably even worse then that. But who cares, follow the mainstream and thrive, right? lol nah, if it would be that easy we all would be a lot more healhier and to begin with which is in fact the exact opposite as you already know.

 

[sammmy]

Science is corrupt in many ways. The claims that nicotine reduces the risk for dementia were actually promoted by tobacco companies I think in the 1980s but turned out to be the opposite of truth. Of course you can do whatever you want if it helps you, just don't trust some doctor on internet about the benefits of nicotine without doing your own review of what independent research says.

On the note of actual science, the probiotic Lactobacillus gasseri OLL2716 (LG21) is recommended after H. Pylori eradication to colonize the stomach and reduce symptoms of Functional Dyspepsia:

Microbiota in the stomach and application of probiotics to gastroduodenal diseases

The stomach is a hostile environment for most microbes because strong gastric acid kills indigenous microorganisms. Thus, the mass of indigenous microbes detected by traditional culturing method in a highly acidic stomach is reported to be very small. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Swanson sells Lactobacillus gasseri. It is sold for "reducing appetite and weight loss" which is probably a gimmick. Some reviews complain of getting bloated which could lead to "reduced appetite". I will try it although I am a little skeptical it will be beneficial.

 

[Belekas]

Science is corrupt in many ways. The claims that nicotine reduces the risk for dementia were actually promoted by tobacco companies I think in the 1980s but turned out to be the opposite of truth. Of course you can do whatever you want if it helps you, just don't trust some doctor on internet about the benefits of nicotine without doing your own review of what independent research says.

On the note of actual science, the probiotic Lactobacillus gasseri OLL2716 (LG21) is recommended after H. Pylori eradication to colonize the stomach and reduce symptoms of Functional Dyspepsia:

Microbiota in the stomach and application of probiotics to gastroduodenal diseases

The stomach is a hostile environment for most microbes because strong gastric acid kills indigenous microorganisms. Thus, the mass of indigenous microbes detected by traditional culturing method in a highly acidic stomach is reported to be very small. ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Swanson sells Lactobacillus gasseri. It is sold for "reducing appetite and weight loss" which is probably a gimmick. Some reviews complain of getting bloated which could lead to "reduced appetite". I will try it although I am a little skeptical it will be beneficial.

Not sure where you getting that from but there are plenty of studies and a lot of newer ones especially with transdermal nicotine administration that shows exacty the opposite of what you are saying and that nicotine is well neuro protective. When I'll have more time I'll see what I can find and make a list as I'm interested myself and been reading a few days non-stop.

I will look into the study you posted re probiotic to colonize the stomach. These days Ive been eating a lot of plain natural yogurt, drinking kefir, having some old aged cheese, soups with a lot of cabbage, some potatoes, carrots. Also have some wholegrain pasta here and there and some beef with some white fish. Cut out breads and other gluten items. No sugar as well. Coconut oil and some Extra virgin oil. So far feeling not too bad but def need to get on the probiotic.

Also I don't believe in Swanson and try to never touch it. Have just arginine from them and thats the only Swansom item I have. Will see what else I can find but its hard to know which ones would be the most beneficial for me.

 

[sammmy]

Any stimulant in small doses has a positive effect on memory and cognition, which is interpreted that it is "neuroprotective". That doesn't mean it cures or prevents dementia in the long run.

Nicotine can potentially predispose to vascular dementia by the negative effects it exerts on blood vessels - it reduces blood flow and increases inflammation. How "neuroprotective" it is does not matter in that setting.

 

[Belekas]

Any stimulant in small doses has a positive effect on memory and cognition, which is interpreted that it is "neuroprotective". That doesn't mean it cures or prevents dementia in the long run.

Nicotine can potentially predispose to vascular dementia by the negative effects it exerts on blood vessels - it reduces blood flow and increases inflammation. How "neuroprotective" it is does not matter in that setting.

But are you talking about Nicotine ingested by smoking or transdermal application? Everything about Nicotine and Dementia is related to smoking and inhaling all the other toxic shit together with it.

I tried all the stimulants and in all the doses and nothing comes every close to how I felt myself yesterday. Other stimulants just wrecks me and I feel awful from them. Brain fog, fatigue, anxiety, cognitive functions and overal malaise just lifted and I felt like normal healthy person I havent felt in many years.

Probably not even worth to debate about as there are no research on very low dose of Nicotine Patches done. Hope they do something like that cuz def it looks like a very interesting compound at least for me and my time of issues.

Just one out of many:

Nicotine is a well-known parasympathomimetic alkaloid, typically detected at a high level in tobacco leaves. The experimental studies reviewed here have suggested that the effect of pure nicotine monomer is not detrimental as cigarette smoke. Unlike pure nicotine, tobacco smoke contains toxic and carcinogenic substances.

According to the data analysis from recent studies in the past 20 years, nicotine exerts much more anti-inflammatory effects than pro-inflammatory ones, especially in ulcerative colitis, arthritis, sepsis, and endotoxemia.18 Feb 2022

Nicotine has demonstrated neuroprotective abilities upon binding nAChRs on numerous cells throughout the brain, acting therapeutically by inducing defense mechanisms against pathology causing Alzheimer’s disease (AD) [70,71], Parkinson’s disease (PD) [20,72,73,74,75,76] and other neuroinflammatory conditions.

 

[sammmy]

Nicotine stimulates angiogenesis and promotes tumor growth and atherosclerosis

We provide anatomic and functional evidence that nicotine induces angiogenesis. We also show that nicotine accelerates the growth of tumor and atheroma in association with increased neovascularization. Nicotine increased endothelial-cell growth and tube formation in vitro, and accelerated fibrovascular growth in vivo. In a mouse model of hind-limb ischemia, nicotine increased capillary and collateral growth, and enhanced tissue perfusion. In mouse models of lung cancer and atherosclerosis, we found that nicotine enhanced lesion growth in association with an increase in lesion vascularity. These effects of nicotine were mediated through nicotinic acetylcholine receptors at nicotine concentrations that are pathophysiologically relevant. The endothelial production of nitric oxide, prostacyclin and vascular endothelial growth factor might have a role in these effects.

 

[Belekas]

Nicotine stimulates angiogenesis and promotes tumor growth and atherosclerosis

That was done more then 20 years ago and with high doses as far as I understood, but nonetheless interesting. I'll read over more over the weekend. Thanks for posting.

 

[Belekas]

Damn I've lost a lot of weight during these HP pre and treatment phases fuck I hate that. Still eating way less then normally to maintain weight and today the lightest I've been since starting TRT like a year ago. Probably lost around 7kg...Getting shredded for no reason SMH

Also noticed I'm super emotional watching something I got deep deep thoughts or something eyes get waterry like fuck me...probably high E2 maybe from the new TRT protocol or lost too much weight and its effecting me crazy...Still taking UDCA with meals, and after cutting gluten seems I lost a lot of bloat. I crave a good sandwitch or pizza and will have once per week maybe as YOLO.

Did a light gym session and some light LIS cardio and had a meal. Started again Magnesium Bisglycinate today and will see if I'll be able to tolerate it now. If it gets worse will try pushing through because a lot of times it gets worse before it gets better. Also from all those PPIs and esp NEXIUM the magnesium must be really low atm and considering I havent been eating food sources that contain it and not taking any supp for it as well I def must be low on magnesium right now. So 250mg (elemantal) in and will try to do that 2x day so 500mg for starters. Other portion before bed and lets see what happens.

 

[Gman86]

Exactly. If you want to feel like shit, read the mainstream research and follow mainstream doctors then good luck to ya. I'm not riding on this horse thats for sure. I'm a minority with all my symptoms and have been for a long time and whatever works for me, if the risk profile suits me then I'll gladly take the risk and enjoy the remaining half of my life feeling good like a normal fucking human being has to. Science is all or most corrupt and payed by big players in the game with only one motive in mind so I care more about real life results and anecdotes then some fucking paper published and funded by the same players in the game. And to be fair its probably even worse then that. But who cares, follow the mainstream and thrive, right? lol nah, if it would be that easy we all would be a lot more healhier and to begin with which is in fact the exact opposite as you already know.

Man, I literally could have wrote this myself. I couldn’t agree more with all of it. Won’t go down the rabbit hole of corruption, but ur spot on with everything u just said, as far as I’m concerned. And I agree with ur mentality as well. I’ve never been one to do or believe things just because it’s what everyone else is doing or believes. Idc how many people are parroting the same things, all I care about is what makes sense.

u just have to do what makes the most sense to u, based on ur research, and what figures into the balance that ur going for in ur life personally.

im absolutely going to look into all this when I have time. Mild to moderate brain fog has been an issue for me for a while, so i would be over the moon to find something that helps with it

 

[Belekas]

Man, I literally could have wrote this myself. I couldn’t agree more with all of it. Won’t go down the rabbit hole of corruption, but ur spot on with everything u just said, as far as I’m concerned. And I agree with ur mentality as well. I’ve never been one to do or believe things just because it’s what everyone else is doing or believes. Idc how many people are parroting the same things, all I care about is what makes sense.

u just have to do what makes the most sense to u, based on ur research, and what figures into the balance that ur going for in ur life personally.

im absolutely going to look into all this when I have time. Mild to moderate brain fog has been an issue for me for a while, so i would be over the moon to find something that helps with it

You already know the way we roll in my cave mate hi 5! I have no problem doing something that everybody else is doing IF it works for me and it makes sense. But to me, honestly after all these years, it pays more to experiment and search to pave my own way, looking at all the data, research and anecdotes while trial and error. And since we all are so different and unique in our own ways its nearly comical to believe that something that worked for some will work for me and vice versa till you try it. Similar with TRT doses if standart doses like lets say 80-120 ain't working should we go lower and even bother at all or just flip the switch and try higher doses? Ofcourse that will be different for everybody and context is key at this point but its still trial and error. Thats why I decided on this EOD protocol to give it a try and see if increasing my dose slowly makes any significant positive change or the effect will be just marginal and meh.

So today I'm experimenting with Nicotine Patch on my girl. Shes vapes a lot now and was a heavy cig smoker for 20 or so years with small breaks. She eats right, supplements right, is on complete HRT for 30 days now, always lean and in great shape, def genetically gifted fwiw. She suffers from 10/10 brain fog, fatigue and memory issues and other symptoms hopefully due to low androgens as she entered menopause. But also was feeling dead way before that, just I'm not sure why I havent put her on HRT earlier. Live and learn. Hindsite is always 20/20. So its been 2+hrs after she put on the patch and now her brain fog is 3/10. Her fatigue is also big usually lets say 10/10 so now its half that say 5/10 and all this just after a couple hours on the patch first day of experiment. She is now happily decorating the Xmas tree LOL cool, calm and collected, energised and not feeling like a damn zombie. We will try to cycle this NP like NicotineTest FB group suggests and see what happens. She started with the same 7mg patch that I did a couple days ago. So given all this I'd say its def worth for you to explore this niche as well and give it a try starting low dose maybe 3.5mg or even 1.7mg if you can get matrix/invisible patch which can be cut as those other normal ones like skin colour shouldnt be cut as the release mechanism will get fucked up and you will get all the dose at once which we dont want.

I'm curios how well it will help with your brain fog but have a sense it will slice it good if not all

 

[Belekas]

I've been into discussions with some folks who are into nootropics on Reddit and was suggested to read this TW thread about how she discovered that she has a genetic predisposition for choline deficiency. Her body struggles to both produce choline & convert dietary protein into choline. And how she managed to get her brain back after 22 months of trying tons of supplements, etc.

I have just started reading it and maybe you will find it interesting as well.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1732105805166510081

 

[Belekas]

I've been into discussions with some folks who are into nootropics on Reddit and was suggested to read this TW thread about how she discovered that she has a genetic predisposition for choline deficiency. Her body struggles to both produce choline & convert dietary protein into choline. And how she managed to get her brain back after 22 months of trying tons of supplements, etc.

I have just started reading it and maybe you will find it interesting as well.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1732105805166510081

Damn thats exactly how shit went down for me as well and always been like that in the past. While I'm smoking I feel absolutely amazing but as soon as I stop then shit hits the fan and it doesnt get better after 3,6 or 12 months on its own. We might be on something here and since NP worked for me so well, she suggests to try B1 and Benfotiamine together with Choline and B complex to match B1 and B2 dose as one depletes another. I'm also interested in doing the 23andMe DNA test as well as every little detail discovered might be key to unlocking my broken brain/body ,)

 

[Belekas]

Histamine-producing gut bacteria can trigger chronic abdominal pain

Researchers from McMaster University and Queen’s University have discovered a gut bacterial ‘super-producer’ of histamine that can cause pain flare-ups in some patients with irritable bowel syndrome (IBS).

brighterworld.mcmaster.ca

 

[Gman86]

You already know the way we roll in my cave mate hi 5! I have no problem doing something that everybody else is doing IF it works for me and it makes sense. But to me, honestly after all these years, it pays more to experiment and search to pave my own way, looking at all the data, research and anecdotes while trial and error. And since we all are so different and unique in our own ways its nearly comical to believe that something that worked for some will work for me and vice versa till you try it. Similar with TRT doses if standart doses like lets say 80-120 ain't working should we go lower and even bother at all or just flip the switch and try higher doses? Ofcourse that will be different for everybody and context is key at this point but its still trial and error. Thats why I decided on this EOD protocol to give it a try and see if increasing my dose slowly makes any significant positive change or the effect will be just marginal and meh.

So today I'm experimenting with Nicotine Patch on my girl. Shes vapes a lot now and was a heavy cig smoker for 20 or so years with small breaks. She eats right, supplements right, is on complete HRT for 30 days now, always lean and in great shape, def genetically gifted fwiw. She suffers from 10/10 brain fog, fatigue and memory issues and other symptoms hopefully due to low androgens as she entered menopause. But also was feeling dead way before that, just I'm not sure why I havent put her on HRT earlier. Live and learn. Hindsite is always 20/20. So its been 2+hrs after she put on the patch and now her brain fog is 3/10. Her fatigue is also big usually lets say 10/10 so now its half that say 5/10 and all this just after a couple hours on the patch first day of experiment. She is now happily decorating the Xmas tree LOL cool, calm and collected, energised and not feeling like a damn zombie. We will try to cycle this NP like NicotineTest FB group suggests and see what happens. She started with the same 7mg patch that I did a couple days ago. So given all this I'd say its def worth for you to explore this niche as well and give it a try starting low dose maybe 3.5mg or even 1.7mg if you can get matrix/invisible patch which can be cut as those other normal ones like skin colour shouldnt be cut as the release mechanism will get fucked up and you will get all the dose at once which we dont want.

I'm curios how well it will help with your brain fog but have a sense it will slice it good if not all

again, literally couldn’t agree more with everything ur saying.

i actually just finished that vid u sent me earlier where the guys were talking covid and nicotine. I think I’m gonna give it a shot. The results ur girl is experiencing is very promising. 7mg definitely seems like too much to take daily, based on what the guys in the vid were saying. The main guy talking said he personally takes a 14mg patch and cuts it up into 6 pieces, and applies one piece daily. Which equals out to around 2.3mg/ day. I plan on only trying out around 1mg/ day to start, via a patch. Some people on Reddit said they use the gum, but I think u can run into issues with a fast release form like that. The patch seems to be the best method to get the nicotine in ur system, from what I’ve seen so far. The doctor recommended this Rugby brand. I think I can get it off of amazon.

What brand did ur girl try?

would love to continue hearing updates on how she’s doing with it

and I’ll obv update this thread with my experience, if I end up trying it

 

[Belekas]

again, literally couldn’t agree more with everything ur saying.

i actually just finished that vid u sent me earlier where the guys were talking covid and nicotine. I think I’m gonna give it a shot. The results ur girl is experiencing is very promising. 7mg definitely seems like too much to take daily, based on what the guys in the vid were saying. The main guy talking said he personally takes a 14mg patch and cuts it up into 6 pieces, and applies one piece daily. Which equals out to around 2.3mg/ day. I plan on only trying out around 1mg/ day to start, via a patch. Some people on Reddit said they use the gum, but I think u can run into issues with a fast release form like that. The patch seems to be the best method to get the nicotine in ur system, from what I’ve seen so far. The doctor recommended this Rugby brand. I think I can get it off of amazon.

What brand did ur girl try?

would love to continue hearing updates on how she’s doing with it

and I’ll obv update this thread with my experience, if I end up trying it

Yeah patch seems the best option as gum might irritate the gut. My girl is doing these ones. Today is her second day and shes feeling great with zero sides so far. If you start low then try doing at least a few rounds minimum and titrate the dose up till you get symptom relief. She will do 5 on 2 off and then another round if everything goes well. The lower dose might work the same so will see if we decide to titrate down. We might actually titrate up on the second round for another 5/2 and then reassess. Will keep you uodated and def give it a go and let me know

P.s. also make sure you read the science/guides from Dr. Marco Leitzke from those links I posted above.

 

[Belekas]

Majority of 'long covid' patients suffer from hypersensitive nervous system

One-fifth of the surveyed patients suffering from long-Covid reported that they are unable to carry out daily family, work or leisure activities.

www.brusselstimes.com

 

[Belekas]

Nicotine rebalances NAD+ homeostasis and improves aging-related symptoms in male mice by enhancing NAMPT activity - Nature Communications

Nicotine, a metabolite of the NAD+ metabolic pathway, has been found to possess anti-inflammatory and neuroprotective properties, yet the underlying molecular mechanisms remained unknown. Here, the authors show that low-dose nicotine promotes SIRT1 deacetylation of NAMPT and enhanced NAMPT...

www.nature.com