"TRT/HRT/Nutrition/Cognition/Wellness/LT student of the game"

[FunkOdyssey]

Hmm interesting. I've read about this as well. Also I have Rebeprazole as well. What would you dose Rebeprazole, 10mg 4x day? So basically we don't even need to add Metronidazole...Hmmm...

The rates of resistance to clarithromycin and metronidazole are pretty high. I see those mainly as increasing adverse effects without contributing much to positive outcomes. If you want to add another antibiotic that is highly effective I would go with tetracycline or minocycline. These will also increase adverse effects though.

I would dose the rabeprazole at 20 mg 4x a day. The key to the high dose dual therapy is maximum around-the-clock acid suppression so you really want to push the PPI doses.

 

[Belekas]

The rates of resistance to clarithromycin and metronidazole are pretty high. I see those mainly as increasing adverse effects without contributing much to positive outcomes. If you want to add another antibiotic that is highly effective I would go with tetracycline or minocycline. These will also increase adverse effects though.

I would dose the rabeprazole at 20 mg 4x a day. The key to the high dose dual therapy is maximum around-the-clock acid suppression so you really want to push the PPI doses.

I do have some Tetracycline but only 28 caps at 250mg/each. Have plenty of Amoxicillin and Metronidazole. So probably won't bother with Metronidazole. How much Tetracycline woulde you add, also a 4x/day dose? I'm not able to get more and won't even try so if needed more then I won't even bother running it. Also have 28 caps of 20mg Rebeprazole and 14 caps of Esomeprazole as well, but can buy more of it easy. Would running one and then switching to another work as well? Because I'd finish Rebeprazole in 6 days and then switch to Esomeprazole till the end of regiment. That I can do.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I'm not aware of a reason that switching from rabeprazole to esomeprazole midway through would be an issue (of course I am not a PPI expert either). If you wanted to incorporate the tetracycline into it, I would run the high dose dual therapy for 7 days and then add in the tetracycline 4x daily for the last 7 days in a sort of hybrid sequential therapy fashion to knock out any survivors. You'll also be able to differentiate side effects caused by tetracycline from the other drugs by introducing it later, so you could stop it early if it is problematic.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Also, make sure you are using listerine or similar antibacterial mouthwash throughout this process and change your toothbrush midway through to reduce the chances of re-infecting yourself orally. Actually, sterilizing the toothbrush daily would be even better if you can find a good way do that. A dental cleaning in the middle of this protocol would also be great if possible.

 

[Belekas]

I'm not aware of a reason that switching from rabeprazole to esomeprazole midway through would be an issue (of course I am not a PPI expert either). If you wanted to incorporate the tetracycline into it, I would run the high dose dual therapy for 7 days and then add in the tetracycline 4x daily for the last 7 days in a sort of hybrid sequential therapy fashion to knock out any survivors. You'll also be able to differentiate side effects caused by tetracycline from the other drugs by introducing it later, so you could stop it early if it is problematic.

I asked about changing PPI's only because I have some of one and some of the another and not enough of each to run them solo, if you understand what I mean. And since I spent 300 euros and 4 months to get all these fucking meds shipped from 3 different countries I have no more mojo to go and buy anything more as here in the UK they are fucked in their heads and its hard to even get what I simply can get easy back home in my country and even if manage to get that will cost a lot more then normally. So anyway I think I'll do the same protocol as you only will have half PPI of one type and half PPI of another type, cuz thats all I have. And will add Tetracycline 4x day at 250mg starting at day #7 for the remaining 7 days. Actually I like that and it does sound good. Maybe it will even be better, maybe not. Who knows. I'm down to give it a try.

Also will look for that mouth wash and do toothbrush stuff as well and will see if dental cleaning is available somewhere close to me in this village I am : )

Much appreciated buddy, hi five!

 

[Belekas]

@FunkOdyssey

Also what will be your diet these 14 days mate? Will you be eating any meats for protein or will stay away from it as Sammy suggested because we need low stomach acidicy to kill the predator

 

[FunkOdyssey]

@FunkOdyssey

Also what will be your diet these 14 days mate? Will you be eating any meats for protein or will stay away from it as Sammy suggested because we need low stomach acidicy to kill the predator

I was going to try to eat my usual diet, unless I find that steak causes awful indigestion or something when eaten on high doses of PPI (which may well be the case). Your stomach may want to release acid in response to meat but it won't be able to with amount of PPI we are talking about here.

If steak proves too difficult to digest, I would probably eat rice and chicken, eggs, baked potato w/ butter, things like that until I'm done with the meds.

 

[Belekas]

I was going to try to eat my usual diet, unless I find that steak causes awful indigestion or something when eaten on high doses of PPI (which may well be the case). Your stomach may want to release acid in response to meat but it won't be able to with amount of PPI we are talking about here.

If steak proves too difficult to digest, I would probably eat rice and chicken, eggs, baked potato w/ butter, things like that until I'm done with the meds.

Ok fair enough. I'm thinking about the same foods and some bread as it seems to digest good at the moment. With rice is hit and miss, not sure why. Some days its good, some days it sucks. I have Jasmine rice. Will try soaking them overnight again and see how that goes. So the last question would be I also have Bismuth Oxide, do you think I could add that 4x day as well to help the erradication?

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Ok fair enough. I'm thinking about the same foods and some bread as it seems to digest good at the moment. With rice is hit and miss, not sure why. Some days its good, some days it sucks. I have Jasmine rice. Will try soaking them overnight again and see how that goes. So the last question would be I also have Bismuth Oxide, do you think I could add that 4x day as well to help the erradication?

I have never seen a study that used only PPI, amoxicillin and bismuth. Typically bismuth is added to triple therapy to turn it into quadruple therapy. I assume it would help, but since I've never seen a study on it, I can't say for sure. I am not personally using it because I tried bismuth subcitrate on its own while I was waiting for my antibiotics to arrive and it aggravated my gastritis and caused constipation.

I'm pretty sensitive to things that are harsh on the stomach and that was a big consideration in the selection of this particular protocol I'm using -- both the drugs and the addon supplements are as gentle as possible. There are alot of other drugs and supplements you can add that are shown to kill h. pylori but they can be rough on an inflamed stomach.

 

[Belekas]

I have never seen a study that used only PPI, amoxicillin and bismuth. Typically bismuth is added to triple therapy to turn it into quadruple therapy. I assume it would help, but since I've never seen a study on it, I can't say for sure. I am not personally using it because I tried bismuth subcitrate on its own while I was waiting for my antibiotics to arrive and it aggravated my gastritis and caused constipation.

I'm pretty sensitive to things that are harsh on the stomach and that was a big consideration in the selection of this particular protocol I'm using -- both the drugs and the addon supplements are as gentle as possible. There are alot of other drugs and supplements you can add that are shown to kill h. pylori but they can be rough on an inflamed stomach.

Yeah I agree and I have never seen such study either. I won't mess with it either and will go with what we discussed. I might add those other ones you mentioned like S. boulardii, Pylopass and maybe Lactoferrin but its damn expensive in the shops I'm buying from so fuck knows. Might be less is more and then just run once its all done on top of that when I get better prices. It wouldn't bother me but I spent too much on all the meds and now I have so much unused Antibiotics that I can go outside and play a damn Dr LMAO

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Yeah I agree and I have never seen such study either. I won't mess with it either and will go with what we discussed. I might add those other ones you mentioned like S. boulardii, Pylopass and maybe Lactoferrin but its damn expensive in the shops I'm buying from so fuck knows. Might be less is more and then just run once its all done on top of that when I get better prices. It wouldn't bother me but I spent too much on all the meds and now I have so much unused Antibiotics that I can go outside and play a damn Dr LMAO

If you could only add one supplement I would probably add the lactoferrin. That is a biofilm disrupter and biofilms are thought to be a big part of h. pylori resistance to treatment.

Antimicrobial Effects of Lactoferrin against Helicobacter pylori Infection

Helicobacter (H.) pylori is the primary causative agent of various gastroduodenal diseases. H. pylori is an adapted microorganism that has evolved to survive in the acidic conditions of the human stomach, possessing a natural strategy for colonizing harsh ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Most people are using NAC to combat the h. pylori biofilm, which is a mistake in my opinion. Yes it works, however, NAC is a mucolytic drug that breaks down the mucus barrier in the stomach, which is the last thing you need when you already have gastritis. It can be really damaging. That's an example of what I'm talking about here: there are alot of ways to kill h. pylori, but there aren't alot of ways that won't mess up your stomach even worse than it already is.

 

[Belekas]

If you could only add one supplement I would probably add the lactoferrin. That is a biofilm disrupter and biofilms are thought to be a big part of h. pylori resistance to treatment.

Antimicrobial Effects of Lactoferrin against Helicobacter pylori Infection

Helicobacter (H.) pylori is the primary causative agent of various gastroduodenal diseases. H. pylori is an adapted microorganism that has evolved to survive in the acidic conditions of the human stomach, possessing a natural strategy for colonizing harsh ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Most people are using NAC to combat the h. pylori biofilm, which is a mistake in my opinion. Yes it works, however, NAC is a mucolytic drug that breaks down the mucus barrier in the stomach, which is the last thing you need when you already have gastritis. It can be really damaging. That's an example of what I'm talking about here: there are alot of ways to kill h. pylori, but there aren't alot of ways that won't mess up your stomach even worse than it already is.

This is absolutely great and awesome info to know mate! I have been taking NAC for years before and in powder form which is acidic af SMH. Live and learn. What brand Lactoferrin you went with?

I'm checking Amazon but since they have a lot of fake products fuck knows which one to go with. Ofcourse I can roll with reputable brand like Jarrow, which products I like and try to use/get all the time, but thats around 50gbp/bottle in the shop I'm using for my supplements.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

This is absolutely great and awesome info to know mate! I have been taking NAC for years before and in powder form which is acidic af SMH. Live and learn. What brand Lactoferrin you went with?

I'm checking Amazon but since they have a lot of fake products fuck knows which one to go with. Ofcourse I can roll with reputable brand like Jarrow, which products I like and try to use/get all the time, but thats around 50gbp/bottle in the shop I'm using for my supplements.

Jarrow is what I'm using. You want to make sure you use apolactoferrin which is the iron-depleted form (that's what Jarrow is). Lactoferrin with higher iron content can actually deliver iron to support h. pylori's growth which is counterproductive.

 

[Belekas]

Jarrow is what I'm using. You want to make sure you use apolactoferrin which is the iron-depleted form (that's what Jarrow is). Lactoferrin with higher iron content can actually deliver iron to support h. pylori's growth which is counterproductive.

Nice. So I'm looking for Apolactoferrin product then and see if I'm able to find one besides the expensive Jarrow one. Usually I get supps with great discounts but now no time to wait as want to start treatment ASAP.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Nice. So I'm looking for Apolactoferrin product then and see if I'm able to find one besides the expensive Jarrow one. Usually I get supps with great discounts but now no time to wait as want to start treatment ASAP.

I wish you the best of luck and I'll be delighted if my tips make a positive difference for you. Give your h. pylori a solid kick in their tiny bacterial nuts from me.

 

[Belekas]

I wish you the best of luck and I'll be delighted if my tips make a positive difference for you. Give your h. pylori a solid kick in their tiny bacterial nuts from me.

Will thank you after I "kill" this beesh. Good luck to you as well and as I understood you have already started, so I'm a bit behind, but will start tomorrow. Your tips/info always makes a difference mate and I'm sure this time it will be on point as well!

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Will thank you after I "kill" this beesh. Good luck to you as well and as I understood you have already started, so I'm a bit behind, but will start tomorrow. Your tips/info always makes a difference mate and I'm sure this time it will be on point as well!

I actually just started yesterday with the PPI, amoxicillin, S. boulardii and lactoferrin. So far so good, feeling normal and fine, digested a 16 oz ribeye no problem for dinner. That has me scratching my head a little bit. Some things I'm reading suggest stomach acid is more important to protect against infection than to aid in digestion (aside from B12 and some minerals which require acid to become bioavailable). I guess it makes sense if you consider how many obese people are on PPIs -- they are clearly still absorbing nutrition from their food.

The first few studies I saw on high dose dual therapy showed eradication rates over 90%, however in the last couple days I found some others that had disappointing results closer to 70%. As a result, I think I'm going to incorporate some minocycline and tinidazole that I also have on hand, starting later today. I'll do 100 mg 2x daily for the minocycline and 500 mg 4x daily with the tinidazole.

I have a dental cleaning scheduled for tomorrow, and have some new toothbrush heads and copper antibacterial tongue scrapers lined up so I can replace those a few times throughout the course of treatment. And the daily listerine mouthwash of course.

Can you tell I'm not fucking around with this?

 

[Belekas]

I actually just started yesterday with the PPI, amoxicillin, S. boulardii and lactoferrin. So far so good, feeling normal and fine, digested a 16 oz ribeye no problem for dinner. That has me scratching my head a little bit. Some things I'm reading suggest stomach acid is more important to protect against infection than to aid in digestion (aside from B12 and some minerals which require acid to become bioavailable). I guess it makes sense if you consider how many obese people are on PPIs -- they are clearly still absorbing nutrition from their food.

The deeper into the woods the darker it gets hehe.. I've ordered S. boulardii today as well so should be with me in a couple of days. When do you take them and do you take a standart dose or increased?

The first few studies I saw on high dose dual therapy showed eradication rates over 90%, however in the last couple days I found some others that had disappointing results closer to 70%. As a result, I think I'm going to incorporate some minocycline and tinidazole that I also have on hand, starting later today. I'll do 100 mg 2x daily for the minocycline and 500 mg 4x daily with the tinidazole.

Yeah thats the case thus my originally pre-planned protocol which included 1.5g of Metronidazole/day as well. So added this yesterday at 3xday 500mg. Those two Antibiotics you added I have no idea and never read anything about then so seems like a smart idea to add them considering the high resistance rates to Metronidazole for example.

I have a dental cleaning scheduled for tomorrow, and have some new toothbrush heads and copper antibacterial tongue scrapers lined up so I can replace those a few times throughout the course of treatment. And the daily listerine mouthwash of course.

Cool. You are ready! Got the listerine mouthwash and a new toothbrush as well. Found dental cleaning 2 mins from my place so will try to get an appoitment booked.

All the best mate and hope we kill these mofos or atleast kill enough for symptom relief and minimal potential for complications and whatsoever.

Fingers crossed!

 

[FunkOdyssey]

The deeper into the woods the darker it gets hehe.. I've ordered S. boulardii today as well so should be with me in a couple of days. When do you take them and do you take a standart dose or increased?

I'm taking the S. boulardii 3 billion CFU 2x daily right now. The main purpose of S. boulardii here is to prevent diarrhea from the antibiotics, so you can use that to determine whether you are taking enough or need to take more. It doesn't seem to help eradication much, it is really more about reducing side effects of treatment.

I might throw in bismuth too, I haven't decided yet. I might see if I can tolerate the added minocycline and tinidazole first.

 

[sammmy]

It takes a few days for the PPI effect to turn on, so you won't feel any side effects from it in the first few days. That's why the eradication protocols have to be 2 weeks, the first few days are wasted without stomach acid suppression.