Too Many Supplements While On TRT

[rr4298]

Good Morning.

56 y.o. male taking 120mg Test-E / wk. 2x60 Saturday 8 a.m. and Tuesday 8 p.m.
Prescribed for a combination of ED and concussions that happened once in the 80's and sever whiplash in '91.
I don't feel that much better after the regimen below that is recommended by my specialist. Numbers included. Planning a detox from all supps. except *** and Vit D3 for 3 days, until next injection to shake things out. Lastly, I've been referred for a sleep study to determine OSA.

All of this seems excessive and I welcome comments/thoughts. I am currently taking daily:
Magnesium Threonate - 2000 mg
Zinc / copper balance - 45mg
Vitamin D drops - 15,000 iu
Selenium - 4 brazil nuts (contra-indicated for benign skin "spots")
He also recommends on a daily basis that I just can't jam down my throat:
Omega 3, Vitamin B complex, Melatonin, Iron, Curcumin, co-Q-10, Taurine, L-Glutamine

I choose to take:
*** - for my osteoarthritis (hip)
Boron - 9 mg
Stinging nettle - 870 mg (last PSA score was 1.6!)
Horny Goat weed - 1500 mg

So, while some of these supplements are designed to assist with the long-term effects of concussion swelling on the brain pan, I feel like crap.

Most recent numbers for 120 mg, sub-Q e3.5d:
TT - 33.1 nmol/L
Estradiol - 103 pmol/L
Hemoglobin - 171
Hematocrit - .485
Ferritin - 27
B12 - 228 pmol/L
Vit D - 162 nmol/L

Thanks for the input.

 

[rr4298]

I have done many of your protocols ++++ due to repeated concussions over 17 years as a competitive water skier and here’s what I learned . One day or another day of my head trying to explode from swelling I decided I had enough. I grabbed the 9 and put it next to the pc and decided one or the other was going to give me relief. I started studying hyperbaric chambers and was close to purchasing one when I discovered hyperoxygenation. You will have to research on your own as the procedure is out there a bit but I can say the 9 was not needed . Within days I had relief for weeks , then I increased the intensity of the treatments and I’m 7 years without my head trying to explode . I have not done a treatment in 5 years and still no problems .

 

[rr4298]

I want to add prior to the treatment I had taken 10,000 Advil not an exaggeration as I saved the bottles. When I say my head wanted to explode it was mind numbing.

 

[andrewBwinter]

Easy to see what the issue is. Your estrogen is too low for your total T.

This is an interesting suggestion. I switched to sub-q before my second set of numbers. Prior to that I was doing IM.

If I take a percentage of E to TT from my first set of numbers (regardless of unit of measure) I get 13% E to TT. From the number above I get 10% E to TT.

I have returned to IM and I am feeling better. In addition I had liver and onions on Thursday night and on Friday morning I felt spectacular. Might be a placebo but I'll take it. I have added boron and will experiment with longer periods without cycling so I can get the E benefit over time. (Joint pain relief)

 

[ripadgett]

Good Morning.

56 y.o. male taking 120mg Test-E / wk. 2x60 Saturday 8 a.m. and Tuesday 8 p.m.
Prescribed for a combination of ED and concussions that happened once in the 80's and sever whiplash in '91.
I don't feel that much better after the regimen below that is recommended by my specialist. Numbers included. Planning a detox from all supps. except *** and Vit D3 for 3 days, until next injection to shake things out. Lastly, I've been referred for a sleep study to determine OSA.

All of this seems excessive and I welcome comments/thoughts. I am currently taking daily:
Magnesium Threonate - 2000 mg
Zinc / copper balance - 45mg
Vitamin D drops - 15,000 iu
Selenium - 4 brazil nuts (contra-indicated for benign skin "spots")
He also recommends on a daily basis that I just can't jam down my throat:
Omega 3, Vitamin B complex, Melatonin, Iron, Curcumin, co-Q-10, Taurine, L-Glutamine

I choose to take:
*** - for my osteoarthritis (hip)
Boron - 9 mg
Stinging nettle - 870 mg (last PSA score was 1.6!)
Horny Goat weed - 1500 mg

So, while some of these supplements are designed to assist with the long-term effects of concussion swelling on the brain pan, I feel like crap.

Most recent numbers for 120 mg, sub-Q e3.5d:
TT - 33.1 nmol/L
Estradiol - 103 pmol/L
Hemoglobin - 171
Hematocrit - .485
Ferritin - 27
B12 - 228 pmol/L
Vit D - 162 nmol/L

Thanks for the input.

Looks to me lime you're a high aromatizer. What is your current Body Fat %? Have you and your doctor considered a low dose AI (.25 mg 2 x week?)

 

[andrewBwinter]

Looks to me lime you're a high aromatizer. What is your current Body Fat %? Have you and your doctor considered a low dose AI (.25 mg 2 x week?)

That's interesting. I thought I was lowering E by injecting sub-q. As for body fat, I haven't measured it beyond what I think looks good in the mirror and no, I haven't discussed an AI

 

[CanadaJim]

10,000 iu is concerned a mega dose, you're on 15,000. I mean for someone deficient in vitamin D the protocol is 6000 daily and once levels are healthy a maintenance dosage of 2000 is the norm.

A normal daily mag dose is 310-420. Guys that go overboard being proactive usually cause more problems down the road.

I would also add that from what I've read, Boron prevents the breakdown of vitamin D. So your already mega dose would be remaining in your blood stream longer than usual possibly contributing to the potential for toxicity. I believe 9mg of Boron would be considered high as from what I've read 3-6mg is the recommended daily dose.

6 Benefits of Supplemental Boron + Signs of Deficiency - SelfDecode Supplements.

 

[andrewBwinter]

I would also add that from what I've read, Boron prevents the breakdown of vitamin D. So your already mega dose would be remaining in your blood stream longer than usual possibly contributing to the potential for toxicity. I believe 9mg of Boron would be considered high as from what I've read 3-6mg is the recommended daily dose.

6 Benefits of Supplemental Boron + Signs of Deficiency - SelfDecode Supplements.

Agreed. I have dropped D to only 5,000 maintenance and boron is down to 6 max. Early days but I did find your comment about boron preventing D breakdown interesting and I thank you for noting that. @CanadaJim it's a Canadian thing to ask, but where you are in the country? I have come across a few CDNs in the forums. Sort of like watching a TV show and saying, "Hey, he's Canadian"

 

[CanadaJim]

Agreed. I have dropped D to only 5,000 maintenance and boron is down to 6 max. Early days but I did find your comment about boron preventing D breakdown interesting and I thank you for noting that. @CanadaJim it's a Canadian thing to ask, but where you are in the country? I have come across a few CDNs in the forums. Sort of like watching a TV show and saying, "Hey, he's Canadian"

East Coast here...New Brunswick

 

[Systemlord]

I would also add that from what I've read, Boron prevents the breakdown of vitamin D. So your already mega dose would be remaining in your blood stream longer than usual possibly contributing to the potential for toxicity. I believe 9mg of Boron would be considered high as from what I've read 3-6mg is the recommended daily dose.

6 Benefits of Supplemental Boron + Signs of Deficiency - SelfDecode Supplements.

I'm having to take 14,000 iu vitamin D daily, any less and I get extremely nauseous, IBS and crazy diarrhea. The only two explanations for needing this much vitamin D is the diabetes is trying to lower it and absorption issues.


My SHBG has been on a steady upward trajectory (11->17) as I've lost weight.

Wouldn't the boron lower my SHBG?

 

[CanadaJim]

I'm having to take 14,000 iu vitamin D daily, any less and I get extremely nauseous, IBS and crazy diarrhea. The only two explanations for needing this much vitamin D is the diabetes is trying to lower it and absorption issues.


My SHBG has been on a steady upward trajectory (11->17) as I've lost weight.

Wouldn't the boron lower my SHBG?

Yes, from what I've read about Boron it helps with lowering SHBG freeing up bioavailable test...but I imagine there are a lot more educated opinions on this topic than mine

 

[andrewBwinter]

Yes, from what I've read about Boron it helps with lowering SHBG freeing up bioavailable test...but I imagine there are a lot more educated opinions on this topic than mine

I wanted to provide an update in my supplements regimen. I cut everything out and focused on some basics and the results have been much better:
3 g desicated beef liver on days I don't eat liver. This acts like a mutlivitamin
200 mg Mag bisglyconate
3 mg boron - maintenance dose
870 mg stinging nettle for my "donut". My stream has improved
Fruit, lots and lots of fruit for uptake of these supplements
I still have to get the sleep study done to see about OSA but last night I slept through the night. Thing seem to be on the mend.