Switching to subq ?

[crashmydaytona]

First time posting I'm glad to see there is a forum for people using trt.
I would like to try subq injections to see if it will help lower my estradiol levels. I appreciate any opinions. 5 months therapy no positive improvement only negative. I might have slightly more energy. Lots of negatives including 20lbs weight gain and very low libido wich was not an issue for me before starting treatment. Injecting 3.5 twice a week intermuscular. Lmk what you think thanks.
Starting lab recent lab
Testosterone 326. 1103
Free test. 9.2. 31.4
Estradiol. 18.4. 77.8

 

[Systemlord]

You could try SQ, or you could just lower your dosage as your Total T and Free T are above normal.

What is your current dosage?

Also, in relation to your injections, when are you drawn labs?

 

[aneuman]

First time posting I'm glad to see there is a forum for people using trt.
I would like to try subq injections to see if it will help lower my estradiol levels. I appreciate any opinions. 5 months therapy no positive improvement only negative. I might have slightly more energy. Lots of negatives including 20lbs weight gain and very low libido wich was not an issue for me before starting treatment. Injecting 3.5 twice a week intermuscular. Lmk what you think thanks.
Starting lab recent lab
Testosterone 326. 1103
Free test. 9.2. 31.4
Estradiol. 18.4. 77.8

I will be able to tell you more when I have my labs in a few weeks, since I switched from 3/Week IM to 2/Week SQ, but as a starting point, I would lower the dosage. By the way, what is your dosage? Based your description: " Injecting 3.5 twice a week intermuscular." I'm not able to tell. I'm assuming 3.5 means every 3.5 days, i.e. twice a week, and not 3.5 mg twice a week, which would be very puzzling if that small amount gets you to 1103 ng/dL, unless you are taking something else not listed. Also list which product are you using: T Cypionate, Enanthate, Propionate, Etc...

31 ng/dL of FT seems high to me. My recent labs showed 19 ng/dL and I think it's on the high side (but I got bragging rights with it and I have it tattooed on my forehead). 77 pg/mL E2 would make miserable a lot of people (not all) including very low libido.

As a reference, the mythical healthy young man between 25-39 years of age does not have any of these parameters near the level you posted. Perhaps TT around 680 ng/dL, FT around 13-15 ng/dL, and E2 between 20-30 pg/ml. Just saying. (Please, don't crucify me, I will repent)

 

[madman]

First time posting I'm glad to see there is a forum for people using trt.
I would like to try subq injections to see if it will help lower my estradiol levels. I appreciate any opinions. 5 months therapy no positive improvement only negative. I might have slightly more energy. Lots of negatives including 20lbs weight gain and very low libido wich was not an issue for me before starting treatment. Injecting 3.5 twice a week intermuscular. Lmk what you think thanks.
Starting lab recent lab
Testosterone 326. 1103
Free test. 9.2. 31.4
Estradiol. 18.4. 77.8

Welcome to Nelson's domain!

Yes most of those other forums are loaded with those dime a dozen blast n cruizerzzz and unfortunately many searching for answers are left in a constant state of confusion.

Many good people on here lots to learn from.

When were your labs drawn?

We always want to test at the true trough (lowest point) before your next injection.

Seeing as you are splitting your T dose (?) and injecting strictly IM twice-weekly (every 3.5 days) than your true trough would be 84 hrs post-injection.

What is your weekly dose of T.

If your labs were done at the true trough than you are hitting a very high trough TT/FT level which means peak TT, FT and estradiol will be much higher.

Running too high a trough FT can easily be just as bad as having too low a FT in many ways especially when it comes to libido/erectile function let alone overall mood and sleep as T has a tonic effect on the CNS.

You left out critical blood markers such as SHBG, RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit, iron/ferritin.

As I have stated numerous times in previous threads

Many make the mistake of jumping on more frequent injections in the hopes of bringing down estradiol let alone hematocrit which is not a given as some of these individuals end up running into issues because they are still running high/absurdly high FT levels on dailies.

 

[Vince]

I do both sub q and shallow IM. Because I do daily injections, I inject in the shoulders, VG and sub q love handles. All my injections are done with a easy touch 29 g half inch syringe. Painless.

I've been on TRT now for over 8 and 1/2 years and all my protocols I felt great on.

 

[crashmydaytona]

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm extremely dyslexic so units of measurement are difficult for me to memorize. I'm assuming we all use the same syringes. I fill it up to 3 and a half mark and inject myself on Sunday morning. Then do the same on Wednesday night. For a total of 7 per week. Hopefully I'm not f-ing this up and overdosing myself. When I did my labs I injected on Saturday morning and did my labs Tuesday afternoon. My doctor thinks I need to work out more to loose belly fat to lower the estradiol levels. My problem with that is the belly fat came after starting treatment. Also I had zero problems with libido and now it barely works. My wife thinks I'm cheating on her because of my lack of interest. If you need any more information let me know I'll provide it. Thanks for your time.

 

[Systemlord]

I'm assuming we all use the same syringes.

No, we do not all use the same syringes, no guessing, you have to know how much you’re injecting. Some men use 25 and 30 gauge insulin syringes, not the same.

My doctor thinks I need to work out more to loose belly fat to lower the estradiol levels. My problem with that is the belly fat came after starting treatment.

The belly fat is likely water weight, which should taper off as your body adjusts or after decreasing your dosage.

Maybe aim for midrange or slightly higher on the Total T and Free T. Odds are some or all of your issues will disappear.

 

[crashmydaytona]

Ok using a 1ml syringe. Injecting .35 ml twice a week.

 

[Systemlord]

Ok using a 1ml syringe. Injecting .35 ml twice a week.

It’s best to use Easy Touch 1 ml .1 ml increments 27-30 gauge insulin syringes due to the non-dead-space design, no wasted medicine and less muscle damage over time.

 

[aneuman]

Ok using a 1ml syringe. Injecting .35 ml twice a week.

What product are you using? Testosterone chpionate? 200 mg/ml?

 

[crashmydaytona]

What product are you using? Testosterone chpionate? 200 mg/ml?

Yes

 

[crashmydaytona]

It does say on it for intermuscular only. So I probably should not use it for subq. If I reduce my dose. How much should I reduce it by?

 

[crashmydaytona]

Maybe I should start with a small change. Doing 3 intermuscular injections a week at .2ml each. That's dropping .1 ml a week. If I start doing this how long should I try it before knowing if it has made a change or not. 6-8 weeks or longer?

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

First things first. So many of us are looking/trying to regain sexual function. If yours was adequate or good, what was the reason(s) to go on testosterone? You're not the first man to report that sexual function declined when going on T. Also, some of us have wives who could care less about sex or have lost their libido/desire due to menopause. That's not the case with your wife. If your marriage is solid, keep it solid. Perhaps, if there are health issues, it's a matter of diet & exercise. For some men testosterone is magic. For some, not.

Tell your doctor that your sexual function has worsened and you want to go off T for a couple of months. Or just stop your injections and then tell him. Share this all with your wife. Have her come with you to your doctor. Wish you success, man. Keep us updated.

 

[crashmydaytona]

I started treatment because of an utter lack of energy. To be able to work 14 hour days and still come home and enjoy my 5 children has become very difficult over the last 2 years. I don't even consider the gym anymore. I am willing to go through some trial and error to see if testosterone can give me half the energy I had. I would even sacrifice a small decline in libido for the energy. That's why I like the idea of reducing the dose. I don't know what my #s would have been a couple years ago but maybe I was only around 500 for testosterone. It's worth trying to go lower. I'm assuming my estradiol will lower as well. From all the reading I'm doing it seems doctors can only do so much. You have to find the place that feels good for you.

 

[crashmydaytona]

It’s best to use Easy Touch 1 ml .1 ml increments 27-30 gauge insulin syringes due to the non-dead-space design, no wasted medicine and less muscle damage over time.

Are you saying to use 27-30 gauge needles for subq or intermuscular? I thought I read somewhere using to small a needle will cause more damage to the muscle over time doing intermuscular injections. I will check into the easy touch.

Another question. Can the testosterone be stored in the syringe for long periods of time? I would like to draw a couple weeks worth into syringes so I don't have to do it as often. Just swap out needles and inject. Would this be ok?

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

I started treatment because of an utter lack of energy. To be able to work 14 hour days and still come home and enjoy my 5 children has become very difficult over the last 2 years. I don't even consider the gym anymore. I am willing to go through some trial and error to see if testosterone can give me half the energy I had. I would even sacrifice a small decline in libido for the energy. That's why I like the idea of reducing the dose. I don't know what my #s would have been a couple years ago but maybe I was only around 500 for testosterone. It's worth trying to go lower. I'm assuming my estradiol will lower as well. From all the reading I'm doing it seems doctors can only do so much. You have to find the place that feels good for you.

Understand. I used to work long days before my health crashed and we never had children. I'm not going go play doctor BUT other issues can be involved like thyroid function, low B12, low ferritin, poor sleep/sleep apnea or just not enough sleep. As I wrote, for some men, testosterone is magic and for others, it isn't.

 

[crashmydaytona]

Welcome to Nelson's domain!

Yes most of those other forums are loaded with those dime a dozen blast n cruizerzzz and unfortunately many searching for answers are left in a constant state of confusion.

Many good people on here lots to learn from.

When were your labs drawn?

We always want to test at the true trough (lowest point) before your next injection.

Seeing as you are splitting your T dose (?) and injecting strictly IM twice-weekly (every 3.5 days) than your true trough would be 84 hrs post-injection.

What is your weekly dose of T.

If your labs were done at the true trough than you are hitting a very high trough TT/FT level which means peak TT, FT and estradiol will be much higher.

Running too high a trough FT can easily be just as bad as having too low a FT in many ways especially when it comes to libido/erectile function let alone overall mood and sleep as T has a tonic effect on the CNS.

You left out critical blood markers such as SHBG, RBCs, hemoglobin and hematocrit, iron/ferritin.

As I have stated numerous times in previous threads

Many make the mistake of jumping on more frequent injections in the hopes of bringing down estradiol let alone hematocrit which is not a given as some of these individuals end up running into issues because they are still running high/absurdly high FT levels on dailies.

Hematocrit 55.4
Hemoglobin 18.2
Rbc 6.21
These were all high. Don't have the others you asked for.

 

[Systemlord]

Are you saying to use 27-30 gauge needles for subq or intermuscular?

Both, half inch is deep enough for shallow IM.

I thought I read somewhere using to small a needle will cause more damage to the muscle over time doing intermuscular injections.

This is nonsense, larger needles, more muscle tissue damage.