Support natural T instead of replacing?

[JmarkH]

Tintin: My point was to start simple (one medication), check labs, and make adjustments. If there are several variables from the start, it will be practically impossible to get dialed in. Pick T, OR enclomiphene, and proceed from there. For some, enclomiphene is all they need. It matters if you are secondary or primary hypogonadal. We are all individuals and our bodies will do what they do. So, what works for me may not work for you. But, the approach methodology from the beginning works the same.

 

[Tintin]

Tintin: My point was to start simple (one medication), check labs, and make adjustments. If there are several variables from the start, it will be practically impossible to get dialed in. Pick T, OR enclomiphene, and proceed from there. For some, enclomiphene is all they need. It matters if you are secondary or primary hypogonadal. We are all individuals and our bodies will do what they do. So, what works for me may not work for you. But, the approach methodology from the beginning works the same.

I agree.

 

[Marcel]

Hi, I find this thread very interesting. It's what I'm looking for as well. I dont want to shut myself down. What about cycling for 3 months switching 1 week 1 shot of 200 or 250 hcg and the next week 2 to 3 times a week a small dose of enclomiphene? Almost as a booster.

Another option testosterone gel 3 times a week for 1 week then enclomiphene for another week for a total of 3 months. All in small doses.


Fyi I'm not an expert on this (so be kind) , I used clomid in the past and worked pretty good, the only sides were floater (I cant confirm that clomid caused it though) also some people like to be enhanced for me it would be more to boost my test for wellbeing and a bit of recovery.

 

[Forty2]

There's only one kind of testosterone, but perhaps you're asking if it has an ester attached in the Natesto product. The answer is no; it is pure testosterone. HPTA shutdown is reduced in part by the limited number of applications, but more importantly by the short duration of action. After an application, serum testosterone peaks within an hour and then drops relatively quickly, allowing significant time at lower levels before the next dose.

Transdermal products cause more HPTA suppression due to considerably longer half-lives. The skin acts as a reservoir for testosterone, releasing it slowly over many hours. Thus serum testosterone levels remain too high for too long to allow normal HPTA function.

Empower Pharmacy offers a testosterone nasal gel product that's supposed to be similar to Natesto and is less expensive. You should investigate this option. Currently the nasal gels are the only testosterone products known to minimize HPTA suppression.

Cat, what about testosterone base mixed with DMSO? Would that differ in the half life from regular testosterone cream?
According to some posts I've read on other forums, test base in DMSO is very fast acting and out of the system fast too.

 

[Cataceous]

Cat, what about testosterone base mixed with DMSO? Would that differ in the half life from regular testosterone cream?
According to some posts I've read on other forums, test base in DMSO is very fast acting and out of the system fast too.

Until there are some actual measurements we can't be sure. Meanwhile, @readalot points out that testosterone troches probably qualify, as the pharmacokinetics appear similar to what's seen with nasal gel.

 

[Forty2]

Until there are some actual measurements we can't be sure. Meanwhile, @readalot points out that testosterone troches probably qualify, as the pharmacokinetics appear similar to what's seen with nasal gel.

Ok so do you think testosterone troches may be a good alternative to Natesto for guys who live outside the US?

 

[Systemlord]

Ok so do you think testosterone troches may be a good alternative to Natesto for guys who live outside the US?

Troches can cause gum related issues.

Pharmacology of testosterone replacement therapy preparations - PMC

The goal of testosterone replacement therapy (TRT) is to return serum testosterone levels to within physiologic range and improve symptoms in hypogonadal men. Some of the symptoms aimed to improve upon include decreased libido, erectile dysfunction, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Buccal testosterone has been found to be well tolerated in clinical trials lasting up to 12 months, with the most common adverse effect being gum-related (16,17). Approximately 18% of subjects reported irritation, inflammation, or gingivitis.

 

[Cataceous]

Ok so do you think testosterone troches may be a good alternative to Natesto for guys who live outside the US?

It seems likely with appropriate dosing.

 

[tareload]

Until there are some actual measurements we can't be sure. Meanwhile, @readalot points out that testosterone troches probably qualify, as the pharmacokinetics appear similar to what's seen with nasal gel.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/cmt.6.2.104.111

 

[tareload]

Another option may be Testosterone in versabase cream applied to anus.







My calculations show labial application of testosterone in versabase cream gives elimination half life under 1 hour. Curious if application to anus would yield similar result. I think I have mentioned this before but it never gets much traction.

 

[tareload]

Whopping 10 mg T troche:

Very cool time series of TT, DHT, and E2 following administration of the troche.

Pharmacokinetic Characteristics, Efficacy, and Safety of Buccal Testosterone in Hypogonadal Males: A Pilot Study1

Transbuccal administration of drugs provides an easy route of administration. To test the safety and efficacy of a novel testosterone (T) product, we perfo

academic.oup.com

 

[tareload]

10 mg T troche. Obviously you would want to lower the dosing for TRT while trying to minimize HPTA suppression.

Pharmacokinetic characteristics, efficacy, and safety of buccal testosterone in hypogonadal males: a pilot study - PubMed

Transbuccal administration of drugs provides an easy route of administration. To test the safety and efficacy of a novel testosterone (T) product, we performed a randomized, double blind, placebo-controlled study in a parallel design. Men with serum T levels below 250 ng/dL were administered...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[tareload]

So there you have it.

Minimize HPTA suppression using appropriate dosing of

1. Nasal gel
2. buccal troche (no swallowing)
3. T cream using labial application? (and my question around anal application).

Tagging @Tintin since I gave him a hard time yesterday. Hope you can find an option that works for you.

 

[Vince]

How Squats Affect Testosterone: Research Findings Explained

Here’s a closer look at what the research has to say on the subject of squats, testosterone and muscle growth.

muscleevo.net

 

[Forty2]

So there you have it.

Minimize HPTA suppression using appropriate dosing of

1. Nasal gel
2. buccal troche (no swallowing)
3. T cream using labial application? (and my question around anal application).

Tagging @Tintin since I gave him a hard time yesterday. Hope you can find an option that works for you.

Readalot, can you find out the absorption rate of test base in DMSO? Some say it's above 80%
I'd also like to know its half life compared with a typical compounded test cream.

 

[tareload]

Readalot, can you find out the absorption rate of test base in DMSO? Some say it's above 80%
I'd also like to know its half life compared with a typical compounded test cream.

You can make a decent inference on absorption relative to test cream from data in this post:

Testosterone no ester in DMSO experiment

Hi guys. I am experimenting right know with an unconventional method for TRT. I made a solution of testosterone base in dmso and ethanol. I am applying it on wrist. My goal is to reproduce the effects of Natesto. The solution is 40mg/ml of testosterone in 80%dmso and 20% ethanol. I started...

www.excelmale.com

Whole thread is fun.

Some data on elimination here:

Primary hypogonadism induced by steroids

Hi guys, i am new here. I am a young man in his 20's and i have primary hypogonadism induced by a long steroids cycle without the use of HCG. In fact, 5 years ago, i did a Blast and Cruise for 1 year straight. I only used testosterone cypionate at 700mg/week during blast and 200mg/week during...

www.excelmale.com

I would venture very rapid as fast or faster than test cream applied to same location.

 

[Forty2]

You can make a decent inference on absorption relative to test cream from data in this post:

Testosterone no ester in DMSO experiment

Hi guys. I am experimenting right know with an unconventional method for TRT. I made a solution of testosterone base in dmso and ethanol. I am applying it on wrist. My goal is to reproduce the effects of Natesto. The solution is 40mg/ml of testosterone in 80%dmso and 20% ethanol. I started...

www.excelmale.com

Whole thread is fun.

Some data on elimination here:

Primary hypogonadism induced by steroids

Hi guys, i am new here. I am a young man in his 20's and i have primary hypogonadism induced by a long steroids cycle without the use of HCG. In fact, 5 years ago, i did a Blast and Cruise for 1 year straight. I only used testosterone cypionate at 700mg/week during blast and 200mg/week during...

www.excelmale.com

I would venture very rapid as fast or faster than test cream applied to same location.

Thanks.
Unfortunately that member never returned to let us know his blood test results.
I wonder if someone with borderline low T and not on TRT could use a very small dose of test base in DMSO, like 5mg in the morning, without it suppressing LH and FSH.
What do you think?

 

[tareload]

Thanks.
Unfortunately that member never returned to let us know his blood test results.
I wonder if someone with borderline low T and not on TRT could use a very small dose of test base in DMSO, like 5mg in the morning, without it suppressing LH and FSH.
What do you think?

I wasn't referring to the member's data; I was referring to the extensive literature data I provided.

To answer your question: Yes, I think it is quite plausible. Long term it may be rough on your skin especially if you apply to a very vascular area like scrotum or anus. I can't imagine applying DMSO to either area but perhaps others have experience. Then you are left with rolling the dice applying to typical areas like @BigTex has discussed.

Anyway if it worked then that is a fourth option to list above.

 

[Forty2]

I wasn't referring to the member's data; I was referring to the extensive literature data I provided.

To answer your question: Yes, I think it is quite plausible. Long term it may be rough on your skin especially if you apply to a very vascular area like scrotum or anus. I can't imagine applying DMSO to either area but perhaps others have experience. Then you are left with rolling the dice applying to typical areas like @BigTex has discussed.

Anyway if it worked then that is a fourth option to list above.

Gotcha.
From what I've read, the 70/30 dmso/water concentration doesn't burn the skin and has a higher absorption rate than 99.9% dmso.
Buccal administration could potentially be another option, right?

 

[Mastodont]

I always wonder why a suppository is not in the market, but if it is true that the half life is so short, it might not be such a good idea, but at a low dose it would be a nice way to mimic the youthful circadian curve without a shutdown. Danny Bossa talked on some video about a doctor who insisted on using scrotal cream rectally, the application seems like a hassle if you want to get it all in.