Official Natesto Thread

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Just ordered the 5.0 mg dose from Defy. Their first instinct was to go with the 10 mg, but I want to try and mimic Natesto as much as possible. I figure I can always increase it after a few weeks if I am not getting results. Excited to give this is a try and compare to how I have felt on Enclomiphene. Hoping that it can help keep my E2 under better control.

I tried to go this route with my initial treatment with Defy, but they steered me (rather aggressively) toward cypionate injections, which I begin next week. Is it possible simply to order these TNG sticks?

Either way, please update us on how it makes you feel and any labs!
 
Defy Medical TRT clinic doctor
I tried to go this route with my initial treatment with Defy, but they steered me (rather aggressively) toward cypionate injections, which I begin next week. Is it possible simply to order these TNG sticks?

Either way, please update us on how it makes you feel and any labs!
Will do. I’ll probably get labs after about a month. Defy told me that they’ve had several requests for it this week alone, so maybe they’re more open to it. They seemed supportive of giving it a try when I asked.
 
Will do. I’ll probably get labs after about a month. Defy told me that they’ve had several requests for it this week alone, so maybe they’re more open to it. They seemed supportive of giving it a try when I asked.
I feel like I've been shafted. I really wanted to give this a try. Cataceous even put in a call for me. Maybe by the time I'm due for a follow-up, Natesto/TNG will have gotten overwhelmingly popular and they won't fight me on trying it.

In any case, I'm wishing you luck with your LH with this! Like my screenname suggests, I'm very concerned with how HRT affects libido, and the original poster specifically mentions that his libido was not helped by Natesto/TNG.

Downsides:
  • Does not seem to boost libido
    • I am likely going back to Natesto. I will track this and report back, but I am fairly certain that it does not help libido much at all (definitely not when compared to cream)
...
Natesto simply does not do this. I never feel "over the top" on it. It is the gentlest form of TRT for me. On the other hand, it would be nice if it could help more with libido and body composition.
 
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Just ordered the 5.0 mg dose from Defy. Their first instinct was to go with the 10 mg, but I want to try and mimic Natesto as much as possible. ...
I think that's wise. If we can assume 10 mg is going to give you roughly twice the serum levels of Natesto then it could push those testosterone peaks up to as much as 1,400-1,500 ng/dL. Aside from being supraphysiological, this possibly would cause more significant HPTA suppression, in spite of the short half-life.
 
I think that's wise. If we can assume 10 mg is going to give you roughly twice the serum levels of Natesto then it could push those testosterone peaks up to as much as 1,400-1,500 ng/dL. Aside from being supraphysiological, this possibly would cause more significant HPTA suppression, in spite of the short half-life.

Couldn't one just half dose the 10mg, i.e. one nostril per dosing instead of both? Unless there's something I'm missing.

I ask only because it's much more economical to get the 10mg. TNG is already such a much more expensive route than injected cypionate.
 
I feel like I've been shafted. I really wanted to give this a try. Cataceous even put in a call for me. Maybe by the time I'm due for a follow-up, Natesto/TNG will have gotten overwhelmingly popular and they won't fight me on trying it.

In any case, I'm wishing you luck with your LH with this! Like my screenname suggests, I'm very concerned with how HRT affects libido, and the original poster specifically mentions that his libido was not helped by Natesto/TNG.



I previously put forth the suggestion of cycling scrotal cream applications with TNG as a possible remedy.
Libido didn’t seem to improve with OP, although the studies that have been shared here seem to suggest otherwise, at least when compared to users’ experience with Clomid.
 
Libido didn’t seem to improve with OP, although the studies that have been shared here seem to suggest otherwise, at least when compared to users’ experience with Clomid.

Seems to be better than Clomid, but not as good as scrotal cream. I'm probably going to end up trying TNG + scrotal cream.
 
Couldn't one just half dose the 10mg, i.e. one nostril per dosing instead of both? Unless there's something I'm missing.

I ask only because it's much more economical to get the 10mg. TNG is already such a much more expensive route than injected cypionate.
There's no guarantee the absorbed amounts are equivalent when different concentrations are used, but it could be worth trying if you don't mind some experimentation.
 
There's no guarantee the absorbed amounts are equivalent when different concentrations are used, but it could be worth trying if you don't mind some experimentation.
@Cataceous @madman

I understand taking doses of Natesto 6-8 hours apart from each other, but what is your view on the ideal time to take the doses, particularly in the evening? Trying to get my head around how the evening dose would work with the peak of my natural production in the early morning. Seems like I'd want to take it at just before I go to sleep to try and have my T as high as possible in the early morning while sleeping, although I could see taking it that late giving me too much of a jolt that may make it harder to go to sleep.

The Empower version arrived today, looking forward to taking my first dose this evening.
 
@Cataceous @madman

I understand taking doses of Natesto 6-8 hours apart from each other, but what is your view on the ideal time to take the doses, particularly in the evening? Trying to get my head around how the evening dose would work with the peak of my natural production in the early morning. Seems like I'd want to take it at just before I go to sleep to try and have my T as high as possible in the early morning while sleeping, although I could see taking it that late giving me too much of a jolt that may make it harder to go to sleep.

The Empower version arrived today, looking forward to taking my first dose this evening.

Early morning/early afternoon/evening.

The timing of your evening dose (early/late) is going to make a shit lick of difference when it comes to your endogenous peak in the early am as the spike in T from the Natesto is temporary/short-lived (Tmax within 1 hr) than levels start to decline and return to baseline 4-6 hrs later.

Definitely would not want to take it before bed as you are just going to spike your T levels temporarily which would most likely have a negative effect on sleep as T has a tonic effect on the CNS which can easily make one feel amped up.
 

*Men using nasal and oral T products are able to achieve mean serum T levels that are within the normal range, but they experience several T peaks and troughs throughout the day because of the multiple daily dosing regimens required (2 or 3 times/day). This results in a PK profile that significantly deviates from the endogenous PK profiles of both younger and older patients

*No single formulation appears to provide an exposure profile that would resemble diurnal variation of both young and older men
 

*Men using nasal and oral T products are able to achieve mean serum T levels that are within the normal range, but they experience several T peaks and troughs throughout the day because of the multiple daily dosing regimens required (2 or 3 times/day). This results in a PK profile that significantly deviates from the endogenous PK profiles of both younger and older patients

*No single formulation appears to provide an exposure profile that would resemble diurnal variation of both young and older men
Presumably with these methods it's the unusual serum testosterone profile that reduces HPTA suppression. What's interesting is that this seems to be less important in primary hypogonadism. That is, at least anecdotally, guys with primary seem to be able to tune their LH just by varying their doses, even when injecting longer testosterone esters.

I understand taking doses of Natesto 6-8 hours apart from each other, but what is your view on the ideal time to take the doses, particularly in the evening? Trying to get my head around how the evening dose would work with the peak of my natural production in the early morning. Seems like I'd want to take it at just before I go to sleep to try and have my T as high as possible in the early morning while sleeping, although I could see taking it that late giving me too much of a jolt that may make it harder to go to sleep.
...
In line with what @madman says, I find rising serum testosterone interferes with sleep. I would have to take a third dose of nasal gel earlier in the evening. In one of the clinical trials the dosing times were "0700 h, 1300 h, and 2100 h". The night interval of 10 hours is the longest, which would make it possible to have declining levels by bedtime.
 
Presumably with these methods it's the unusual serum testosterone profile that reduces HPTA suppression. What's interesting is that this seems to be less important in primary hypogonadism. That is, at least anecdotally, guys with primary seem to be able to tune their LH just by varying their doses, even when injecting longer testosterone esters.


In line with what @madman says, I find rising serum testosterone interferes with sleep. I would have to take a third dose of nasal gel earlier in the evening. In one of the clinical trials the dosing times were "0700 h, 1300 h, and 2100 h". The night interval of 10 hours is the longest, which would make it possible to have declining levels by bedtime.
I tried the Empower version for 5 days. Just didn't like it. It does seem to build up in your nose, and occasionally you can feel it running down your throat, which isn't pleasant. I also felt like I was high (and actually tired) for a few hours after taking each dose, obviously due to the jump in testosterone, and I also had a minor headache every single day, which seemed to start shortly after using it. The application wasn't a huge deal, although I still felt like I was tied to a clock with the 3 times per day application. Admittedly, I probably haven't used it long enough to give it a fair shake, and I'd probably get used to it a bit more and make some adjustments, but at this point I prefer the feeling from Enclomiphene. One pill at night, more natural feeling throughout the day. I think I'll stick with Enclomiphene for the time being and play around with the frequency to find the best spot for me. If my numbers really start to drop or I start feeling awful, I'm open to jumping on the nasal gel again, particularly because my subjective feeling was that it likely did jump up my testosterone levels for that 1-2 hours. But I suppose I'm happy enough with Enclomiphene right now to make me not willing to spend time with the nasal gel waiting things out or finding the best approach.
 
I tried the Empower version for 5 days. Just didn't like it. It does seem to build up in your nose, and occasionally you can feel it running down your throat, which isn't pleasant. I also felt like I was high (and actually tired) for a few hours after taking each dose, obviously due to the jump in testosterone, and I also had a minor headache every single day, which seemed to start shortly after using it. The application wasn't a huge deal, although I still felt like I was tied to a clock with the 3 times per day application. Admittedly, I probably haven't used it long enough to give it a fair shake, and I'd probably get used to it a bit more and make some adjustments, but at this point I prefer the feeling from Enclomiphene. One pill at night, more natural feeling throughout the day. I think I'll stick with Enclomiphene for the time being and play around with the frequency to find the best spot for me. If my numbers really start to drop or I start feeling awful, I'm open to jumping on the nasal gel again, particularly because my subjective feeling was that it likely did jump up my testosterone levels for that 1-2 hours. But I suppose I'm happy enough with Enclomiphene right now to make me not willing to spend time with the nasal gel waiting things out or finding the best approach.
Have you considered or tried taking enclomiphene + intranasal testosterone together? The enclomiphene would stimulate endogenous production and likely prevent suppression from a short-acting form of testosterone. You could use the intranasal testosterone more PRN/as needed vs. strictly 3x/day: such as prior to a workout, sexual activity, or a focused work session/important meeting.

Would be particularly interesting to to also lab test testosterone levels to see if 20mg (10mg in each nostril) produces supra-physiological testosterone levels 1 later and any suppression 6-8 hours later.
 
I also felt like I was high (and actually tired) for a few hours after taking each dose, obviously due to the jump in testosterone, and I also had a minor headache every single day, which seemed to start shortly after using it.
I had the same feeling with Natesto
Post #17
 
I had the same feeling with Natesto
Post #17
I did notice a lot more random erections, libido probably increased a bit. So there was some good, and maybe that's a sign to me that in general my T is too low. The feeling in my nose and headache was just too annoying, although I'm not ready to give up on it completely, particularly since I only gave it a few days. Maybe a combination of enclomiphene with using this as a once or twice per day boost would be a good fit.
 
I did notice a lot more random erections, libido probably increased a bit. So there was some good, and maybe that's a sign to me that in general my T is too low. The feeling in my nose and headache was just too annoying, although I'm not ready to give up on it completely, particularly since I only gave it a few days. Maybe a combination of enclomiphene with using this as a once or twice per day boost would be a good fit.
Or even maybe just doing one nostril instead of both, or decreasing the nasal dosage by not going the full 8 "clicks" for a rotation. Might be enough to top things off without side effects.
 
I've wondered about this. I think a recovery would eventually happen. It would be slower than when stopping testosterone totally. But it might also avoid most of the unpleasant side effects of immediately going without any exogenous testosterone. I expect you could speed up the process by taking enclomiphene for a few weeks.
I kinda agree with this. I believe Dr. Lipschultz is getting ready to study this.
 
Or even maybe just doing one nostril instead of both, or decreasing the nasal dosage by not going the full 8 "clicks" for a rotation. Might be enough to top things off without side effects.
Maybe consider the Natesto brand. I am prone to headaches and Natesto is literally the only form of TRT that does not give me a headache. The ingredient list is quite small while the list of ingredients in Defy's version is quite large. The headaches could be from one of the ingredients specific to the Defy formulation.
 
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As the OP, I should jump back into the fray. Yes, I did say that it is not great for libido. However, I also started the thread during a time I was doing a lot of protocol changes, which is not an ideal time to form a subjective opinion. For this very reason, I have been tracking subjective responses to TRT in a spreadsheet so I can learn from the experiences, rather than making gut-based judgements.

Nothing really compares to the first two weeks I was on cream. Crazy libido. But, all came crashing down shortly after that window. I would perhaps update my opinion to say that Natesto is "sufficient" for libido support.
 
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