Some insight on T cyp injection frequency and SC vs IM)

[ERO]

Is anyone doing every day IM injections? If so what gauge and length needle?
I tried subq eod but my total and free T plummeted and e2 shot up.

I do and use a 5/8 29 gauge needle. No issues.

 

[Vitamin_C]

I can handle Bi weekly sub Q injections but Qdaily injections no thanks, even sub Q....

 

[Jackie Treehorn]

i really wanted to do daily injections but i am just not cut out for it. I tried to do hcg daily per my last visit with Dr Saya and that lasted all of 3 or 4 days before I got sick of it and went back to 2x a week.

I hear that. I was pinning HCG daily (150IUs), but that quickly got old with me also pinning Sermorelin every night. I switched the HCG to EOD (300IUs), and it made a big difference to me. I don't know if it's psychological, but skipping that one day between the HGC makes all these injections a whole lot more tolerable.

 

[Specialk]

I do and use a 5/8 29 gauge needle. No issues.

How are you getting an oil based T-cyp through a 29 gauge needle without major effort? Also, since you are using a 5/8 ths length needle, can I assume you are ultra lean, have very thin fat layer on your thigh or you just inject into the fat?

I'm not asking to be sarcastic, I feel like maybe I could go back to injections if it was that convenient and worked. If you read the only post I've posted here, I have been on TRT for 20 years and am sick, sick , sick of injections. I've hit nerves, I've hit blood vessles (granted not common, but over 20 years and with lots of scaring in my back side, it's inevitable). But I use a 27 Guage 1" and press it to the hub because I'm always concerned about getting it into the muscle. I've tried switching to my thighs but get the same issues and when you hit a nerve, your whole muscle jolts, blood vessels just hurt more than usual.

Anyway, would love to get the technicals on your injections. Do you use T-cyp or are you using a water based T? Are you injecting into the fat layer or are you able to get below it with a 5/8ths length needle? If you're using oil based, how do you grip the plunger so you can get enough force to push it through? Also, if you pre-load the syringes, how many do you pre-load, are you worried at all about contamination (I'm a microbiologist so I have real issues with sanitation - I've seen sterilized buffered water opened only once - with sterile technique- in a lab grow mold in less than a month).

 

[luismota]

I wonder when the day will come when they have a Testosterone Pump like the one diabetics folk use, or maybe hack one to take testosterone?

 

[Vince Carter]

I find no issue using a Grapeseed Based TCyp and a 29g, of course you have to put some pressure on the plunger. I barely notice it anymore, first few times I was trying to manhandle it thinking this is BS, but I quickly didn't notice the effort any longer. I bet after 20years you're injection fatigued. Most of us using a 29g 1/2" (or 5/8) don't look at it like its IM, or SubQ. More and more I don't think anyone necessarily finds a significant difference. Some call it "shallow IM". I just stick it and push it upper outer thigh and done.

 

[PAUL-E]

I've used 30 ga 1/2 insulin pins before it works with my Watson's test cyp but its slow, it helps if you heat the oil for example if you put it in your pocket for a little while before you clean and inject otherwise you can Back load a insulin syringe. Some feel back loading keeps the needle sharper and less painful but I really haven't noticed a difference.

 

[Specialk]

I find no issue using a Grapeseed Based TCyp and a 29g, of course you have to put some pressure on the plunger. I barely notice it anymore, first few times I was trying to manhandle it thinking this is BS, but I quickly didn't notice the effort any longer. I bet after 20years you're injection fatigued. Most of us using a 29g 1/2" (or 5/8) don't look at it like its IM, or SubQ. More and more I don't think anyone necessarily finds a significant difference. Some call it "shallow IM". I just stick it and push it upper outer thigh and done.

So you just go for the slow push instead of trying to manhandle it? Sound good. Yes I am about 10 yrs past injection fatigue. But as in my first post on this forum, I am super active and the only real option is daily so I was lamenting even the thought of daily injections, but I hadn't heard of anyone injecting with an insulin syringe. I also smiled reading your "shallow IM" description... It makes me laugh for some reason. Reminds of the Weider Principles back in the 80's.

Well, more to consider. Right now, I got so sick of the fluctuating dose (based on my activity level), the high hemotocrit (no way I'm donating blood every month, as a good friend does), I got scared up just from lots of tess when my thyroid was messed up- it's not anymore, it was just stress-- no Hashimotos, no Graves, just stressed based inflamation, most probably from life stress and diet stress. After bodybuilding so long and having to force feed myself to get enough calories to grow muscle, I honestly hate eating most of the time. I eat only when I NEED to and that's not good for insulin levels or general health, plus I grab what my brain tells me will stop the hunger pain most quickly which was chips! Diet is now clean. Anyway, went off everything in frustration and have been off for almost 2 years. I finally got sick of feeling tired and having no libido (pluming works well and with the slightest provocation from my wife I have no performance issues), so I tried PCT (1000 iu HCG EOD, 20 mg Tamoxifen ED) with no result (total T 324)...

So I really don't want to do creams, I really don't want to inject. I really want to have a miracle! ha ha hhah ah ha but alas, wishing isn't making it happen. So I'm considering daily injections. I'll probably try a few and then decide. I still have a refrigerated Tcyp. It's just that by doing it, Taking the T, I am fully killing my fantasy of somehow getting my system back to moderate operational levels. I really love my fantasy...h ah ha ha ahah It would be truly funny if it weren't so real.

I've used 30 ga 1/2 insulin pins before it works with my Watson's test cyp but its slow, it helps of you heat the oil like put it in your pocket for a little while before you clean and inject otherwise you can Back load a insulin syringe. Some feel back loading keeps the needle sharper and less painful but I really haven't noticed a difference.

I already used to do the vial in the pocket thing, so I got you there. As for back loading, too worried about contamination. But I hear you.

 

[PAUL-E]

yeah, when I back load I never set the plunger down I hold it between fingers in the same hand as syringe and never touch the plunger. I notice if I pull some air in the 3cc syringe and then backload it none gets wasted it ends up being about .05cc more so take that into account. also high E2 and dehydration have been associated with higher hematocrit levels
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...-s-Role-on-Hematocrit-Study&p=39635#post39635
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?6833-Hematocrit-and-Hydration&highlight=dehydration

 

[shan1784]

What ******** group was this in????

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

I've used 30 ga 1/2 insulin pins before it works with my Watson's test cyp but its slow, it helps if you heat the oil for example if you put it in your pocket for a little while before you clean and inject otherwise you can Back load a insulin syringe. Some feel back loading keeps the needle sharper and less painful but I really haven't noticed a difference.

Drostanolone (masteron) and trenbolone in the video...nice lol...at least he wasn't dumb enough to show his face

SpecialK - you've gotten some good advice from the fellas and you seem like a bright guy who is meticulous about decisions...the ball is now in your court. Best of luck.

 

[Bama Boy]

I Think I will have to keep to my Twice weekly which I just started . I know The once every Three weeks Sucked ! Would not wanna pin everyday !

 

[ERO]

I Think I will have to keep to my Twice weekly which I just started . I know The once every Three weeks Sucked ! Would not wanna pin everyday !

Going from once every 3 weeks to twice weekly is going to make a huge difference in a positive direction for you. I would not change anything for at least 6 weeks now that you moved to this protocol.

 

[KeyserSöze]

If the sorts of numbers in the first post are any indication of what could/should be expected from a sample size of more than the individual, I don't understand why anyone that is currently on a daily HCG injection protocol wouldn't adopt this method other than the hassle of an additional vial to pack/carry when traveling. Am I missing something?

 

[Fireproof]

If the sorts of numbers in the first post are any indication of what could/should be expected from a sample size of more than the individual, I don't understand why anyone that is currently on a daily HCG injection protocol wouldn't adopt this method other than the hassle of an additional vial to pack/carry when traveling. Am I missing something?

Pretty much that. Lifestyle and business travel that would make compliance difficult. I travel a lot for business, and so far, I've never had to take any supplies with me since I always leave after my monday morning injections and i return thursday afternoon before my thursday evening injections.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Im not a vehicle connoisseur, but will take my best stab at an analogy here:

Once every 2 week T cyp injections = broken down 1985 Oldsmobile...completely non-functional.

Once weekly T cyp injections is a FUNCTIONAL upgrade...perhaps a 2009 Chevy Malibu..."good enough for some".

BIW T cyp injections is a further upgrade to a 2015-2016 Cadillac (fill in the model of your choice) an acceptable and perfect option for the MAJORITY of guys, a good balance of functionality and convenience, without being overly burdensome.

Some guys may NEED (low SHBG guys) or simply want a further upgrade...here we're talking about TIW, QOD, or daily injections of T cyp...the Mercedes, Ferrari, or Bentley if you will. A luxurious upgrade for those that need or want it...but certainly comes at a cost factor (inconvenience).

Now for HCG, to be honest most guys as long as not exquisitely sensitive (again low SHBG or very sensitive to even minor E2 shifts), and dosed adequately, will not notice much subjective difference between BIW - TIW - daily injections (some will, but not nearly the degree of separation as with T cyp).

 

[Fireproof]

Great analogy and insights, Dr. Saya. Thanks!

 

[KeyserSöze]

Im not a vehicle connoisseur, but will take my best stab at an analogy here:

Once every 2 week T cyp injections = broken down 1985 Oldsmobile...completely non-functional.

Once weekly T cyp injections is a FUNCTIONAL upgrade...perhaps a 2009 Chevy Malibu..."good enough for some".

BIW T cyp injections is a further upgrade to a 2015-2016 Cadillac (fill in the model of your choice) an acceptable and perfect option for the MAJORITY of guys, a good balance of functionality and convenience, without being overly burdensome.

Some guys may NEED (low SHBG guys) or simply want a further upgrade...here we're talking about TIW, QOD, or daily injections of T cyp...the Mercedes, Ferrari, or Bentley if you will. A luxurious upgrade for those that need or want it...but certainly comes at a cost factor (inconvenience).

Now for HCG, to be honest most guys as long as not exquisitely sensitive (again low SHBG or very sensitive to even minor E2 shifts), and dosed adequately, will not notice much subjective difference between BIW - TIW - daily injections (some will, but not nearly the degree of separation as with T cyp).

I love this analogy, but it begs the question "why drive the Cadillac if you're paying for the Ferrari"? I like that your analysis drives towards the individualistic need for a protocol of this type for some. I am on daily HCG (and I honestly don't mind), but am not sure if it was driven by need or not.

 

[Speed]

yeah, when I back load I never set the plunger down I hold it between fingers in the same hand as syringe and never touch the plunger. I notice if I pull some air in the 3cc syringe and then backload it none gets wasted it ends up being about .05cc more so take that into account. also high E2 and dehydration have been associated with higher hematocrit levels
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...-s-Role-on-Hematocrit-Study&p=39635#post39635
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?6833-Hematocrit-and-Hydration&highlight=dehydration

It's a lot easier to hold plunger by mouth when you backload (free hands). I started injecting 25mg ED recently and I backload 10 syringes and keep them in my closet beside my bed. When I wake up, I pick one and push it in my belly and job done in 5 sec..

 

[Vince]

Reading all this information about daily injections of T, makes me want to try it. But things are going so good with injecting every 3 1/2 days, keeps me from trying. If I ever have high estrogen. I know I would have no choice, but to go to daily injecting. I never want to use an AI.