SUBQ vs IM physiology

Dwhit · Jul 13, 2017

Could it be that a lot of guys who think they are injecting intramuscularly in the gluteal region are actually injecting subcutaneously?

Vince · Jul 13, 2017

Because I inject daily, I rotate areas. My favorite injection site is the ventrogluteal, it took awhile to get comfortable with it. I love it now.

Best Injection site, no aspiration needed, avoids all nerves

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...n-site-no-aspiration-needed-avoids-all-nerves

AbsoluteZ3R0 · Jul 13, 2017

Dwhit said:
Could it be that a lot of guys who think they are injecting intramuscularly in the gluteal region are actually injecting subcutaneously?

View attachment 3862

This is something I've also wondered about. Especially using insulin needles, I know that the chances of an injection being IM in the glutes are very low. That said, like Vince, many of us rotate injection sites. I primarily inject in the quads/shoulders, and I know I'm getting to the muscle in these areas.

Dwhit · Jul 14, 2017

Here is an article that lends support to the idea that there is no difference between subq and IM injections in terms of local estrogen conversion:

Dwhit · Jul 14, 2017

I mentioned in my original post that esterified testosterone is not affected by aromatase. I've seen Dr. Saya mention this, and I've seen it posted a few times on various forums, but I just looked, and I cannot find any research to back this up. On the contrary, I found reference to the fact that testosterone undecanoate can be converted to DHT-undecanoate by 5-alpha reductase, followed by conversion to active DHT by esterase. If 5-alpha reductase can recognize an esterified form of testosterone, might the same be true for aromatase? Does anyone have a reference one way or the other?

madman · Jul 14, 2017

Dwhit said:
Could it be that a lot of guys who think they are injecting intramuscularly in the gluteal region are actually injecting subcutaneously?

View attachment 3862

Length of needle/angle/amount of adipose tissue at specific injection sites will determine whether one is injecting sub-q or im and if anything when injecting im if one does not go deep enough than they usually end up injecting shallow im.

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Vince Carter · Jul 14, 2017

esterified testosterone is not affected by aromatase

If that were the case no one would need an AI.

AbsoluteZ3R0 · Jul 14, 2017

Vince Carter said:
If that were the case no one would need an AI.

What he means is that the ester is not affected by local aromatase at the injection site. Since fat tissue contains more aromatase than muscle, the concern used to be that subcutaneous injections would result in more direct aromatization of the ester, however, most doctors have now concluded that aromatization does not occur until the oil is broken down and absorbed into the blood stream. In other words, it doesn't matter where you inject, the ester will ultimately be "processed" the same way in the end. The same principle applies to older theories concerning local anabolic effects (ie, injecting in a muscle you want to make bigger)

tropicaldaze1950 · Oct 15, 2018

Though this a thread from last year, my experience of seven months using sub q was a mixed bag.

Doing daily shots, 15 mg, my TT was 777, Free T 16 and E2 29. I did have some weight gain(about 7 lbs) but as far as erectile function and libido, I could've been injecting sterile water. Gave up on it for a year, trying to increase T through using high dose vitamin D, along with zinc, selenium, C, A & E. Then, after months of serious fatigue and depression, I gave myself an IM shot of 30 mg before bed. Woke up feeling clear headed and energetic. I went back to my urologist six weeks ago. My labs presented a sad picture. TT 268. Enough said.

Given my experience, he prescribed 200 mg per week and I inject everyday.(My preference) I've gained 13 lbs around the waist.(155 to 168) New labs were pulled and I see him on 10/18. Broke up an anastrozole tablet into tiny pieces, which isn't easy or accurate and take a little piece twice a week. I don't like using it w/o knowing my E2 but I suspect I hyper-aromatise testosterone. I had three days where my libido was quite strong and erections were sporadic. Nocturnal erections are becoming semi-regular. Nice!

I might reduce my daily dose, depending upon the labs and my urologist's opinion, though, this morning, my weight was down 5 lbs. I'm also back on desiccated thyroid, as I have sub-clinical hypothyroidism, as well. FWIW, I'd rather inject IM, using a 30 gauge insulin needle in the shoulders.