So who is happy with TRT? Who wish they never started?

[Wingy]

lol 60mg EOD is not microdose... folks START at that a week ...210mg a week is actually very high and more of a "fitness" dosing than optimization.

I would expect something else going on and MACRO dose of 280mg a week is what makes u feel "ok". ie over a gram of test a week is VERY high and imagine ur levels are over 1000... at anyrate that is a brute force just like taking morphine to feel no pain when an advil would actually make u OK...

most clinics are VERY similar to pill mills and just legal steroid pushers, and because they give what u wanted u THINK they are all about your health.

like opiates of course MORE feels WAY better, but that does not mean its good for your health. this goes for canna clinics rx 7g a day to every person who walks in and pays the $ when actually 0.5g would be more than enough for vast majority.. and opiates can make people more productive get rid of brain fog and ADHD, never get sick, and even train harder as no pains....

If a clinic starts u at over 100mg a week chances are its closer to a pill mill/legal steroids than actual health clinic...

also to wingy, its possible something else is your problem T isnt answer for everything and going in thinking it is puts you in that spot where u want more and more till by brute force u to feel better and is beyond HRT and again more analogous to getting morphine when advil wth a tylenol is all u need and probabably better for your actual health, even though of course feel better on the morphine. you may THINK its tottaly different but both cause dependance and BOTH are affecting hormones morphine is just dopamine instead of testosterone.

and on the note of new oral testosterone, while they SAY its bypassing liver, your either shitting out 200mg of test OR you are taxing your liver... the 300-500mg of Jatenzo oral is going somewhere and dont think u are pooping out 90%....could be wrong but id be skeptical.

So you don't think 435 total is low after 1 week or 160 total after 2 weeks?

 

[Guided_by_Voices]

Interesting Thanks for the info. I guess I will do a little more research. The information I've gathered so far was 200mg per week was typical starting dose. Administered daily at around 40mg per day. I'll check with Dr. Rand McClain in CA. to see if what you say checks out. If it does I will be changing clinics.

One of the problems with starting so high is that if you have an issue, you don't know whether to increase or decrease assuming your labs do not clearly point in one way or another. Also, in my experience it is a lot easier to assess progress when you raise the dose because you don't have to wait for the compounds and metabolites to clear your system, hence the adage "start low and go slow".

 

[madman]

Interesting Thanks for the info. I guess I will do a little more research. The information I've gathered so far was 200mg per week was typical starting dose. Administered daily at around 40mg per day. I'll check with Dr. Rand McClain in CA. to see if what you say checks out. If it does I will be changing clinics.

Far from what would be considered the norm.

This is pushed by those run of the mill HRT clinics let alone some doctors that cater to what we call the blast n cruizerzzz.

In the majority of cases most of the high-end dosed T protocols are dished out with the use of an AI to control the elevated estradiol due to the absurdly high FT levels.

Let alone some doctors are trying to maintain estradiol in a specific range (cookie cutter).

Most of these men are over medicated on T off the hop.

Do some men do well on these protocols.....of course.

Do some men struggle on such protocols.....most definitely.

Majority of men can easily achieve a healthy/very high trough FT level on 100-150 mg T/week especially when split into more frequent injection.

Are there outliers that need the higher-end dose 200 mg T/week most definitely but they are far and few.

200 mg T/week is over kill for most!

Tread lightly when it comes to that this is where I feel best.

Much to look at if you want to get deep and pick this apart.

Start slow and go slow we say as it is much easier to go up than come down.

Never knock a lower dose T protocol until you have actually done it let alone put in the time (12 weeks) to claim whether it was truly a success or failure.

No quick fixes here.

Unfortunately too many men are still caught up on that more T is better mentality.

 

[jmeineck]

I've heard Dr. McClain, on a video, state that he starts patients on 200 mg/weekly. Also heard Dr. Lipshultz at Baylor goes right to 200 mg/weekly. Not certain if they split the dose.

I still hold to the the opinion that the 'right' dose or 'optimal' dose is the dose that resolves symptoms, not an arbitrary number. If a man does well on 10 mg/daily, excellent! If he feels his best on 70, 80,90 or 100 mg/weekly, great! And if someone doesn't feel it until 150 or 200 or 250 or more, then, so be it. And we're not even getting into topical on the scrotum, pellets, oral, test propionate or test undecaonoate! We argue and debate something that medical/clinical research can't agree on. For certain, everyone is entitled to their opinion, especially based on the form of testosterone used and dosing experience. But there isn't a gold standard for this. What works for one or a few doesn't translate into a consensus.

I agree with everything you just posted here! I certainly don't want to argue with anyone. As I said I'm not an expert. If I was seeing adverse side effects for the dose my PA put me on I would certainly question what they are doing with me. If I start seeing issues I will defiantly seek a second opinion with Next Level Dietetics or Dr. McCain at Regenerative &sports Medicine. If I were going to start today knowing what I know now I would have went with one of those clinics to start with. But so far I cannot complain about how Male Excel has treated me!!! Have a great week everyone.

 

[Arcane]

I’ve been on TRT for about 7 years. No regrets.

I’ve tried enanthate, cypionate, cream, and propionate and like them in roughly that order. Tried just about every injection protocol too, eventually settling on EOD enanthate.

If I have any complaints, it’s that I’m jealous of the guys that benefit from low doses and normal levels. I find that I don’t get much benefit from TRT until my levels are in the upper part of the range or higher, and what goes with that are side effects like poor sleep and some acne.

Be aware that if you choose to try it, you will likely feel fantastic for a few days immediately upon starting. That is a dopamine response and is not indicative of how you’ll feel on TRT long term.

Also know that there is very little risk in trying it out. So many guys think that if you try it, you’re “stuck on it for life”. Using sensible doses, you could try it out for a few months then very likely go right back to your natural levels if you decide it’s not for you.

are you using enanthate currently?

 

[HSLD]

are you using enanthate currently?

Yes, I'm still using enanthate.

 

[andrepohlann]

I inject daily testosterone cypionate/oil solution with an insulin syringe at 90 degrees with 1/2" (12.7 mm) needle. Have done this for two years with no problems. These are IM injections because my skin/fat layer is less than 4 mm in my thighs, delts, and glutes. If you do a true subcutaneous injection between the skin and fat layer with an oil solution you will have a problem with hard, red inflamed lumps that last for days. This happened to my wife and discouraged her from injections so much that she went back to creams.

The total for the week is still 100mg?

 

[George9]

The total for the week is still 100mg?

I started at 100 mg testosterone cypionate injected once per week. After the first year I gradually increased the dosage over three years to my current 40 mg testosterone cypionate per day. For the last two years I have stayed at 280 mg/wk and do not plan on going higher. My estradiol averages about 50 pg/mL which has not caused any problems. I have never taken estrogen blockers and have no interest in ever starting.

 

[Vince]

I started at 100 mg testosterone cypionate injected once per week. After the first year I gradually increased the dosage over three years to my current 40 mg testosterone cypionate per day. For the last two years I have stayed at 280 mg/wk and do not plan on going higher. My estradiol averages about 50 pg/mL which has not caused any problems. I have never taken estrogen blockers and have no interest in ever starting.

HCT levels?

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

I started at 100 mg testosterone cypionate injected once per week. After the first year I gradually increased the dosage over three years to my current 40 mg testosterone cypionate per day. For the last two years I have stayed at 280 mg/wk and do not plan on going higher. My estradiol averages about 50 pg/mL which has not caused any problems. I have never taken estrogen blockers and have no interest in ever starting.

When did you transition to daily shots? How's libido/erectile function? Thanks.

 

[Gman86]

I started at 100 mg testosterone cypionate injected once per week. After the first year I gradually increased the dosage over three years to my current 40 mg testosterone cypionate per day. For the last two years I have stayed at 280 mg/wk and do not plan on going higher. My estradiol averages about 50 pg/mL which has not caused any problems. I have never taken estrogen blockers and have no interest in ever starting.

Did u ever try any other dosing frequencies while on the 280mg/ week? I’m jc why u ended up doing daily injections. Like was it because u feel better subjectively on them, sexually u do better on them, or was it more of a way to keep things like HCT down? Been experimenting with injection frequencies recently, so I’m curious

 

[RotnGun]

I’ve been on TRT for about 7 years. No regrets.

I’ve tried enanthate, cypionate, cream, and propionate and like them in roughly that order. Tried just about every injection protocol too, eventually settling on EOD enanthate.

If I have any complaints, it’s that I’m jealous of the guys that benefit from low doses and normal levels. I find that I don’t get much benefit from TRT until my levels are in the upper part of the range or higher, and what goes with that are side effects like poor sleep and some acne.

Be aware that if you choose to try it, you will likely feel fantastic for a few days immediately upon starting. That is a dopamine response and is not indicative of how you’ll feel on TRT long term.

Also know that there is very little risk in trying it out. So many guys think that if you try it, you’re “stuck on it for life”. Using sensible doses, you could try it out for a few months then very likely go right back to your natural levels if you decide it’s not for you.

If Im correct, you inject eod and your dosage is 126mg a week of test E, right? Whats your total test, free test, estradiol and SHBG on such a protocol?

 

[rimster]

Hi,
As someone with a total T of 230 at 42 years old. And reading these boards as well as numerous research articles. Who is ultimately happy with going on TRT? What benefits did you see? What negatives did you personally see? Its hard to really discern whether the benefits outweighs the risks etc. How is everyone's libido? What ester are you on and how much/how often?

Just trying to get some feedback from people currently on TRT or that were on and went off due to side effects.

Hi it took me a few months to realize that hcg was causing all my issues but once i stopped it trt was the best thing that improved my quality of life. And yes I'm the beginning when i had issues i would be on this forum. Once i figured it out i hardly look at this forum so you never know how many people are doing great without reporting it

 

[Gman86]

Hi it took me a few months to realize that hcg was causing all my issues but once i stopped it trt was the best thing that improved my quality of life. And yes I'm the beginning when i had issues i would be on this forum. Once i figured it out i hardly look at this forum so you never know how many people are doing great without reporting it

What’s ur protocol? Ester, injection frequency, dose per week?

How many iu’s of HCG were u using prior to discontinuing it?

 

[tropicaldaze1950]

What’s ur protocol? Ester, injection frequency, dose per week?

How many iu’s of HCG were u using prior to discontinuing it?

About to ask the same questions.

 

[rimster]

What’s ur protocol? Ester, injection frequency, dose per week?

How many iu’s of HCG were u using prior to discontinuing it?

Tried different protocols but worked best for me is daily test cyp injections of 16mg.
Hcgs tried all different from 500 three times a week to 100 per day three times a week. Always gave me ed , water retention and a lack of sensitive. Once i stopped everything fixed. Thanks to systemlord for pointing out that some people do horrible with hcg. Otherwise i would never know as most people love it. Good luck

 

[Gman86]

Tried different protocols but worked best for me is daily test cyp injections of 16mg.
Hcgs tried all different from 500 three times a week to 100 per day three times a week. Always gave me ed , water retention and a lack of sensitive. Once i stopped everything fixed. Thanks to systemlord for pointing out that some people do horrible with hcg. Otherwise i would never know as most people love it. Good luck

What’s ur SHBG?

So even 300iu’s per week of HCG caused those issues huh?

 

[rimster]

What’s ur SHBG?

So even 300iu’s per week of HCG caused those issues huh?

Yes even less than that. Never tested shbg

 

[HSLD]

If Im correct, you inject eod and your dosage is 126mg a week of test E, right? Whats your total test, free test, estradiol and SHBG on such a protocol?

At trough, that usually puts me around TT: ~825 FT: ~190 (35-155) E2 Ultrasens: ~70 SHBG: ~20

As some will note, yes E2 is "high". However I find that as long as TT/FT are also high, E2 doesn't seem to have any negative effects. I can chase E2 down by lowering dose, but then I lose the benefits I was getting from TRT. Honestly these days I don't even look at E2 and basically ignore it but my provider requires that I test it.

 

[dirk69]

Tried different protocols but worked best for me is daily test cyp injections of 16mg.
Hcgs tried all different from 500 three times a week to 100 per day three times a week. Always gave me ed , water retention and a lack of sensitive. Once i stopped everything fixed. Thanks to systemlord for pointing out that some people do horrible with hcg. Otherwise i would never know as most people love it. Good luck

How long after stopping hcg did it take for the water retention to subside?