FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
If we were giving out forum superlative awards, I would nominate you for most likeable guy on the forum.
Trans scrotal testosterone cream application is a game changer
- Thread starter bbex2014
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Oh wow, thanks brotha! This actually hit me pretty deep lol. I appreciate u saying that more than u know. Means more to me than u realize. I can’t say enough nice things about u as well. U seem like a person I would get along with great in real life. U just seem extremely open minded, and open to learning new things, and changing ur opinions, if necessary, based on new information that u feel is worth adjusting ur views for. Which is one of the most valuable/ important qualities that I think someone can have. Especially in this space. U just seem like u have a really good head on ur shoulders, have really good critical thinking skills, and are never biased when engaging in a thread topic. U just seem like a very balanced person, from ur intelligence level, to the way u communicate with others, to expressing ur opinions without ever rubbing anyone the wrong way, to just being a cool guy in general lol. I’ve always enjoyed reading anything u post, and/ or chatting with u personally. Thanks again for the kind words tho. Truly meant a lot to me, and made me feel pretty damn good lol
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Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
My brother. You need a reset man. i beg of you to do cream only for a few months. Get reasonable ft and tt and you’ll be much better off. Too many variables. And too much switching things.
Well, at least you know who you are and what you are, which I think is good.
No arguments here. It’s fairly complex and really hard to know where to start, when to push it, when to back off, etc.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
I think most guys on the boards are too smart for their own good. Or at the very least armed with too much information. just take the simple approach. You have a testosterone deficiency. Take testosterone. if Your going to try the cream stick with cream only. No other variables. For at least 3 months. And you have to stick to a dose And quit hopping around.
you also have to realize that most of the things your complaining about are likely not trt related. For example you say you’re a life long headache sufferer. That’s a pretty big deal. I’m sure at some point in your life you had decent natural t levels. You’re assuming the t is “ exacerbating” your headaches. I would venture to say it’s likely not. Even for me, I wasn’t a life long headache suffer and started getting them around when I started trt. Still doesn’t mean it’s trt. That said for me switching to cream the headaches went away. Until I bumped it to 5 clicks daily. But I stayed on that dose for 3 months. Now I’ve adjusted back down to 4 clicks daily and they have seemed to subside. But I need more time to come to a “possible“ conclusion.
Well said. And I couldn’t agree more. Even when we make a protocol change, and see a certain symptom arise, it doesn’t mean that the symptom was 100% from the change in ur protocol. Changing a variable in a hormone protocol makes many different things in ur body function differently. But just in general, I see so many things that people are dealing with, in HRT, that can most likely be easily resolved via changes they can make in other aspects of their life, that have nothing to do with their HRT protocol
speaking of headaches, at around 30 mins and 30 seconds into this vid the woman talks about having migraines on an almost daily basis, for years, and after being full carnivore for like 3 weeks, or slightly less, her migraines have drastically reduced to almost not even having them anymore. Not saying everyone should eat carnivore. Just sharing how powerful diet changes can be, incase some people don’t realize it yet. We are literally made up of what we eat. Our bodies are literally made up of what we ingest. It cannot function properly without ingesting the things it needs, while concurrently avoiding ingesting things that mess with it
Excellent point. Diet is extremely important. I dropped to very low carb several years ago ("ancestral" type of diet as named by Josh Turknett, a migraine neurologist, but not carnivore) and noted a huge increase in energy and drop in headaches. That said, my carb intake has drifted up, but nowhere near what it used to be.
Diet matters for sure.
It all pretty much comes down to decreasing as much chronic inflammation as u can, and improving insulin resistance as much as possible. Most people have no idea how big of an impact food can have on issues their body is dealing with. Was just watching a vid this morning where Anthony Chaffee was interview a guy that owns assisted living homes, and is doing amazing things by giving the people at his homes either a keto or carnivore diet. Has people coming in on hospice and loving another 6 years with him, people seeing drastic improvements in their dementia/ alzheimers, and has people that come into his homes, and end up improving their health so much that they end up leaving the assisted living, and going back home. And I can tell u from personal experience as a nurse, this absolutely never happens. I’ll link the vid below if anyone wants to check it out. Absolutely worth the watch. Anthony chaffee also talks about studies where they took Alzheimer’s patients that were using statins that cross the blood brain barrier, like Lipitor, and took them off these statins, and their Alzheimer’s appeared to go away after 6 weeks. And then they put them back on the statins, and 6 weeks later their Alzheimer's appeared to come back. He goes over this around 20 mins and 40 seconds into the vid.
Overall tho, there’s no denying that the optimal diet for humans is a carnivore based diet, imo, but what’s still debatable, imo, and what I’m not 100% sure on, is whether a full carnivore diet where ur in ketosis all the time is better than a carnivore diet with a low to moderate amount of healthy carbs along with it, or vice versa. I personally will most likely always do carnivore with a moderate amount of carbs, so I’m right there with u as far as still eating a decent amount of carbs goes. And again, this actually might be a healthier way to eat, long term, than strict carnivore were ur in ketosis 24/7. Time will tell I’m sure, as more information comes out about the diet over the years.
How many grams of carbs do u roughly think u eat in a day?
Also, if anyone doesn’t know who Anthony Chaffee is, he’s a neurosurgeon by profession, and just a really smart an open minded guy. Literally just wants to help people. I know it can be tough knowing who and what to believe and what not to believe. So just wanted to give some context about who he is
About a month ago, I posted somewhere in this thread that I got labs pulled about 5 hours after applying cream. For some crazy reason, it took this long to finally get some of the results.
For context, I had injected a total of 55mg within a week of getting the labs. The last injection was 10mg three days prior to the labs. I was using 75mg of cream once a day (non scrotal) for two days, then 75mg twice a day for two days. On the day of labs, I used 75mg on the chest about 5 hours prior to the labs. (I know what you are gonna say, @Charliebizz, don't jump on me!).
At the time I got labs pulled, I felt extremely anxious and jittery. The labs were done at Quest. Total T was MS and Free T was dialysis. Here's what the labs showed:
I am confident TRT was the source of the severe anxiety. However, everything at the time I felt that way was in range and normal except DHT. I know this stuff is very complex and intricate. I realize there are a lot of factors at play and that connecting feeling bad to numbers can be a tricky endeavor.
But, for arguments sake, let's assume that the numbers do correlate to the severe anxiety and jittery sensation I had at the time. Why did I feel that way??
Do I not tolerate DHT? Was it merely the transition (hormones rising or falling rapidly)? Is my estradiol too low?? Was my total T partially elevated by the injections and the "bad" feeling reflects transiently being hypogonadal until cream gets me up high enough?
I really wish there was some severe outlier I could blame, but everything looks pretty damn normal on these labs.
Did I learn anything at all? I guess I learned to combining injections with non-scrotal cream can put me in a normal therapeutic range.
For context, I had injected a total of 55mg within a week of getting the labs. The last injection was 10mg three days prior to the labs. I was using 75mg of cream once a day (non scrotal) for two days, then 75mg twice a day for two days. On the day of labs, I used 75mg on the chest about 5 hours prior to the labs. (I know what you are gonna say, @Charliebizz, don't jump on me!).
At the time I got labs pulled, I felt extremely anxious and jittery. The labs were done at Quest. Total T was MS and Free T was dialysis. Here's what the labs showed:
- Total T 457 (250-1100)
- Free T 111.5 (35-155)
- DHT 99 (12-65)
- Estradiol 18 (<29)
I am confident TRT was the source of the severe anxiety. However, everything at the time I felt that way was in range and normal except DHT. I know this stuff is very complex and intricate. I realize there are a lot of factors at play and that connecting feeling bad to numbers can be a tricky endeavor.
But, for arguments sake, let's assume that the numbers do correlate to the severe anxiety and jittery sensation I had at the time. Why did I feel that way??
Do I not tolerate DHT? Was it merely the transition (hormones rising or falling rapidly)? Is my estradiol too low?? Was my total T partially elevated by the injections and the "bad" feeling reflects transiently being hypogonadal until cream gets me up high enough?
I really wish there was some severe outlier I could blame, but everything looks pretty damn normal on these labs.
Did I learn anything at all? I guess I learned to combining injections with non-scrotal cream can put me in a normal therapeutic range.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
I’ll tell you for me it was actually being low t that caused anxiety to come back. When I was on a lower dose of the cream I thought my t was too high. Turned out tread 298. Now on 6 clicks daily I’m completely fine. No anxiety at all. 5 clicks daily only had me at 800tt and 19ft. So I assume I’m not crazy high on 6 clicks. But I feel good on 4-6 clicks a day. I really bumped it up to see if I could somehow get my cold intolerance to go away lol.
I think you are on to something.
Cream has been a box of chocolates for me - on any given day, you never know what you are gonna get, brother!
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
Yeah I just assumed that getting anxiety and stuff was the high t or high dht. In reality it was low t. I don’t think that was possible because when I was low t before trt , I didn’t have anxiety.
FlamingDragon
Member
What do you guys recommend for timing as far as blood work goes for cream. Since it's an every morning application. How many hours do you like to wait before you get your blood work done? I guess on the creams you're looking for your highs not your lows.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
Most people say 5 hours
Question for @RobRoy about absorption: Do you think it is possible for absorption characteristics to change over time? I have been on a consistent dose of scrotal cream for about 5 weeks. The same dose in the past, applied the same way, made me feel crazy and my labs were all out of whack. This time, I feel fine (and often better than fine) and my labs are pretty much perfect. I can't quite figure out why it's so different this time compared with in the past. Just wondering if it is plausible that one may change the way they absorb cream over time?
To further the thought, I am again starting to feel a bit sluggish and wonder if I need to push the dose up a bit (assuming I have adequately addressed all other reasons for feeling sluggish)?
To further the thought, I am again starting to feel a bit sluggish and wonder if I need to push the dose up a bit (assuming I have adequately addressed all other reasons for feeling sluggish)?
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
I'll answer your question with a screenshot from the TRT and Hormone Optimization group on ********. The mods and cream-loving practitioners on there reacted violently to this post with disparaging remarks.
Those are pretty insane levels.
FunkOdyssey
Seeker of Wisdom
The point: he was fluctuating between 25 and 61 ng/dL free T on the same dose. In later comments, he clarified that he thought the big changes were occuring between different batches (two tests on same batch would be consistent, next test on a new batch wildly different).
Regardless of whether his interpretation there was correct, it's basically the best documented display of inconsistent results on cream I've seen to date.
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Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
That group has some really good content but man I’m tired of the way these “gurus” act. Any question they can’t answer they say “you need to find a competent provider” aka them. and disparage you for asking a question on a discussion group rather then asking your dr. like What the hell are these groups and forums for lol.
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