I'm a little confused. What exactly do you mean by toasting your organs or not healthy long term?? I completely agree that guys that cycle Test at very high doses >2000ng T and combine with anabolics are going to have detrimental problems with organs, enlarged liver, enlarged heart, etc.
However, if someone is on TRT and say their levels at trough are 1400ng, (assume this is a 200mg or 250mg dose) and the person feels fantastic, no Adex required, Labs are taken at least once per year (possibly twice or more) and indicate no issues (maybe
high hematocrit, but that can be debatable as a real issue), no high blood pressure, PSA in check, all other levels within range from CBC. And this isn't a new protocol, say > 2 years.
What is so horrible about the above? If labs are good what damage is being done to internal organs or long term damage?
I've been on 250mg/ml Tcyp split into 2 doses now for over 2 years and feel absolutely fantastic. Labs are all good, no E2 symptoms, Hemocrit slightly high and I've donated, but considering holding off on next donation to see where levels go. I'm 43 and hope to live a long time, so what is so unhealthy on this protocol other than just saying high Free T levels aren't normal and your causing your body damage??
Feelinglost is a little over dramatic some times! Toasting organs not going to ever happen unless one was abusing the c-17 alpha alkylated orals (methyltestosterone,stanozolol (winstrol), oxandrolone (anavar), methandrostenolone (dianabol), oxymetholone (anadrol), fluoxymesterone (halotestin).
As far as being not healthy no one can say that having a total t trough slightly above the top end of the physiological range is going to cause long term health issues/side effects especially if some one is monitoring blood work and making sure all health markers are in a healthy range.
The purpose of the discussion is regarding trt which the goal is to improve/relieve the patients symptoms of low testosterone ( low energy/drive, low libido/ poor erectile health and function, negative mood (depression,anxiety,anger and irritability, poor concentration), increase in adipose and loss muscle/strength and overall well being.
Trt is replacement of physiological testosterone levels and whether that requires one needing to reach mid-normal physiological levels or high-normal physiological levels along with a healthy free t level and of course e2 in a healthy range to achieve relief of low t symptoms.
Ranges are in place for a reason as guidelines to differentiate between low/high levels.
Health young males on average produce 6-7 mg of testosterone daily and usually have total t levels in the 600-800 ng/dl range and that is at peak as due to the natural circadian rythm testosterone levels peak in the early am and slowly decline later in the day.
Point that needs to be stressed is most males will experience relief from low t symptoms having a total t trough above 500 ng/dl (along with a healthy free t) and others may need to be some what higher.
Highly doubtful anyone would need a trough above >900 ng/dl to notice improvements in low t symptoms.
The reason there is individual variability regarding t levels comes down to ones genetics and sensitivity of the AR (androgen receptor), polymorphism of the AR and CAG repeat length (short/long) and of course shbg will play a strong role.
As far as side effects regarding the cosmetic sides caused from testosterones metabolite dht (dihydrotestosterone)- oily skin/acne,MPH (male pattern hair loss), increase body/facial hair and effects on the prostate and estrogen- water retention,gyno,effects on prostate at trt doses these are common to a certain degree but ones genetics will have the final say as to whether one experiences them.
As some even on low doses of t with levels in the mid/normal physiological range will still experience side effects.
As far as hemoglobin/hematocrit there are many factors involved whether higher physiological peaks of t, e2, dht, new epo setpoint, decreased hepcidin some due to genetics and possibly polymorphism of the AR and whether one posses short or long CAG repeat lengths may still have issues with hemoglobin/hematocrit even at lower doses/physiological levels of testosterone.
As far as estradiol there are also many factors involved whether excess t especially supra-physiological peaks, ones body fat levels, liver health/function, diet/environmental factors ones genetics will always play a strong role as some will always have e2 issues regardless of testosterone dose/injection frequency as they are genetically high converters of t----->e2.
Sure one can donate blood to control hemoglobin/hematocrit but there is a fine line between running into issues with low ferritin/iron and one can use aromatase inhibitors if e2 can not be controlled and is problematic in causing one negative symptoms.
Trt should be about using the lowest amount of testosterone to see improvement/relief of low t symptoms plain and simple and if one searches the literature many men achieve relief from low t symptoms by having testosterone levels in the physiological range whether mid-normal or high/normal.
Supra-physiological ranges are in no way needed to experience relief from low t symptoms and if anything the sole purpose of using supra-physiological levels would be solely for gaining muscle/strength.
If one says they need to be above the top end of the physiological range to notice improvements in low t symptoms than testosterone is not the issue and one would need to address thyroid/adrenals or other underlying health issues.
