Penis smaller after TRT

[SSHSSA74]

If you want an alternative view, I believe its penis atrophy. Consider this, from when guys are about 13 years old, for decades their dicks are hard for hours a day. Just about every guy is masturbating or at least rock hard when a good stiff breeze blows by. Heck, in my teens and 20's I would wake up several times each and every night with a rock-hard penis. This exercises the vaso vessels in the penis thoroughly and very often. As we get older, busy with a career, waiting for wives, girlfriends, and partners that are "once a week", or too busy and just put out for a sexual workout....the penises don't get the workout they used to. Dicks atrophy, it's a fact. In short, I don't believe it's the added testosterone, you all are making an association that I don't believe is there. My recommendation is to take arginine, citrulline, daily 5mg Cialis, and start banging or jerking away or get a vacuum cylinder that you can use for at least an hour a day. You can retrain and get back most of it.

I'll give you another example. When I was in 10th grade, I broke my wrist. Back in those days they only did hard casts. That horrible sweaty cast was on me for six weeks without a break. When I got my arm back, it was pale, weak, much smaller, and looked like an old man's arm. It took months for it to look normal. That's just in six weeks. How long are you all going without daily action, the sort of daily erections that you had in your teens and 20's??

In short, get cranking, use it or lose it.

sounds like a possibility for sure!

 

[DixieWrecked]

Good question. Erectile sensitivity, erection size and sustainability, testicular size, libido, as well as cognitive and emotional enhancement are the things that I experience from HCG at 100 IU E3D or E2d. If I cross the threshold into higher dosing, testicular size decreases, erectile function decreases, I encounter anxiety and depression as well as aggression. It’s a very delicate balance I have to work with.

I've started 100iu eod and so far I feel pretty good. I adverse effects and things seem to be hanging better and fuller. Thanks for sharing your experience. I hope it continues to have a positive effect for me

 

[bixt]

My bro science two cents is that smaller flaccid penis after TRT is due to a DHT/ E2 imbalance. Specifically under converting to via 5AR to DHT and (relatively) over converting to E2.

 

[Simbarn]

Great work, also found that with caffeine and gave it up, also T/E ratio might have some play in this, as sometimes bigger bolus doses have really relaxed the whole package, where as microdosing gone slightly over has done more damage down there. I think there is for most guys a limit for aromatization on exogenous T, so boluses force the ratio to be better and smaller doses end up raising estradiol but not enough of T. But boluses usually raise hematocrit so pick your poison.
I do find that unwanted effects like tight scrotum seem to be more prevalent with age, i dont recall ever having a tight package when i was doing 250mg sustanon on one shot, also did not have elevated hematocrit.

Thank you.

"I do find that unwanted effects like tight scrotum seem to be more prevalent with age, i dont recall ever having a tight package when i was doing 250mg sustanon on one shot"

This study (I have attached) which has been performed with rodents, I found relevant to the age related changes that may also occur in humans concerning sympathetic function in the penis and most likely in the rest of our peripheral vascular system. Owing to the penis having much less tolerance to these changes, it may be evident earlier due to a noticeable decline in erectile performance.
This sympathetic hyperactivity which appears to manifest around middle age is thought to be caused by oxidative stress in these tissues (and others).

"In the healthy state, there is a balance between ROS production and elimination, which is performed by enzymatic and non-enzymatic antioxidants agents such as SOD, catalase, peroxidase, and vitamins C and E. Oxidative stress occurs when the antioxidant capacity is diminished and/or ROS production is increased, causing an imbalance between ROS production and elimination in favour of their production".

This increase in reactive oxygen species (ROS), which therefore exacerbates oxidative stress is thought to impair the biological activity of Nitric oxide and soluble guanylyl cyclase, subsequently enhancing sympathetic neurotransmission.

This is a different etiology than that we have been discussing with excessive testosterone. However, put together may cause significant erectile difficulties in the aging male. The sympathetic elevation that a young man may experience from excessive testosterone may or may not not be enough to cause ED or the appearance of overly tight/shrunken genitals, but in an older male this may be a very different story, given aging has already amplified this activity.

One study I have read suggests that resistance to free radicals could be diminished when exposed to high levels of testosterone also, that is ROS and oxidative stress would then be elevated. This could mean testosterone when in excess may also work on a similar pathway in this regard to up-regulating sympathetic activity via an increase in oxidative stress, not just by increased mRNA expression for alpha-1a adrenoceptors.

It is not just the adrenergic pathway that is of interest here: The RhoA/Rho-kinase signalling pathway has great influence on the inhibitory mechanisms in the penis. I have also included an interesting study on diabetic mice which focuses more on the Rho-kinase pathway and oxidative stress. It is also speculated that this pathway may become up-regulated due to the effects of oxidative stress in the erectile tissues. Subjects with diabetes are known to have elevated levels of oxidative stress and much research is being carried out on them in regard to ED, diabetes being a high risk factor for ED.

 

[Mastodont]

Thank you.

"I do find that unwanted effects like tight scrotum seem to be more prevalent with age, i dont recall ever having a tight package when i was doing 250mg sustanon on one shot"

This study (I have attached) which has been performed with rodents, I found relevant to the age related changes that may also occur in humans concerning sympathetic function in the penis and most likely in the rest of our peripheral vascular system. Owing to the penis having much less tolerance to these changes, it may be evident earlier due to a noticeable decline in erectile performance.
This sympathetic hyperactivity which appears to manifest around middle age is thought to be caused by oxidative stress in these tissues (and others).

"In the healthy state, there is a balance between ROS production and elimination, which is performed by enzymatic and non-enzymatic antioxidants agents such as SOD, catalase, peroxidase, and vitamins C and E. Oxidative stress occurs when the antioxidant capacity is diminished and/or ROS production is increased, causing an imbalance between ROS production and elimination in favour of their production".

This increase in reactive oxygen species (ROS), which therefore exacerbates oxidative stress is thought to impair the biological activity of Nitric oxide and soluble guanylyl cyclase, subsequently enhancing sympathetic neurotransmission.

This is a different etiology than that we have been discussing with excessive testosterone. However, put together may cause significant erectile difficulties in the aging male. The sympathetic elevation that a young man may experience from excessive testosterone may or may not not be enough to cause ED or the appearance of overly tight/shrunken genitals, but in an older male this may be a very different story, given aging has already amplified this activity.

One study I have read suggests that resistance to free radicals could be diminished when exposed to high levels of testosterone also, that is ROS and oxidative stress would then be elevated. This could mean testosterone when in excess may also work on a similar pathway in this regard to up-regulating sympathetic activity via an increase in oxidative stress, not just by increased mRNA expression for alpha-1a adrenoceptors.

It is not just the adrenergic pathway that is of interest here: The RhoA/Rho-kinase signalling pathway has great influence on the inhibitory mechanisms in the penis. I have also included an interesting study on diabetic mice which focuses more on the Rho-kinase pathway and oxidative stress. It is also speculated that this pathway may become up-regulated due to the effects of oxidative stress in the erectile tissues. Subjects with diabetes are known to have elevated levels of oxidative stress and much research is being carried out on them in regard to ED, diabetes being a high risk factor for ED.

Funny you mentioned, i am prediabetic these days, just passed 40. Currently off of testosterone, but it seems like i cannot beat this, so trt is probably in the cards pretty soon.

 

[Seth]

sounds like a possibility for sure!

What you're saying makes sense. "Use it or lose it".
I've often wondered about why some men seem to get really big down there when they get older. Like, were they always that big, or did their penis and testicles just get bigger as they got older.

 

[SS1LE]

So I actually have notice a tighter penis and erection issues after I added a small dose of T cream….so I’m curious if it was the higher dht or possibly the dht causing lower E2

Test Cream on Scrotum and DHT

So my doc let me change my protocol, I dropped down to 12mg a day , and apply 1 click of test cream which is 12.5mg to the scrotum area. My DHT came back way over range, My TT and FT are about the same as doing 14mg daily that I was doing. The only thing is erection quality went down the drain...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Dr.V.P.C.]

...

Such great info and articles , thank you
I am planning to use Apocynin ( the first article you post) but unfortunately i can´t find it here in Brazil and ebay doesn´t deliver here.

 

[jonezee2014]

I have a personal theory on this. I’ve tried HCG with some success however size / hanging of scrotum seems to be tied to dopamine levels at least in my case. I’ve observed with dopamine related drugs such as Wellbutrin my size is restored and seems even better than before TRT as crazy as that sounds. I also notice it in the evenings without Wellbutrin or any other drug or supplement but still on TRT. I’ve also tried L Tyrosine with similar results. I think variances I’m dopamine that might be tied to testosterone in some way affect this issue. I can reproduce it every time with these meds that seem to be related. I did try a norepinephrine reuptakr inhibitor as well that had an effect but I don’t think it was as pronounced as Wellbutrin. Unfortunately Wellbutrin turns me into an asshole so I don’t take it anymore but the physical affects and the original reason I went on it (lack of focus / inattentive adhd) we’re great. Also if I smoke marijuana it restores size as well. Crazy, I know.

 

[camygod]

I have a personal theory on this. I’ve tried HCG with some success however size / hanging of scrotum seems to be tied to dopamine levels at least in my case. I’ve observed with dopamine related drugs such as Wellbutrin my size is restored and seems even better than before TRT as crazy as that sounds. I also notice it in the evenings without Wellbutrin or any other drug or supplement but still on TRT. I’ve also tried L Tyrosine with similar results. I think variances I’m dopamine that might be tied to testosterone in some way affect this issue. I can reproduce it every time with these meds that seem to be related. I did try a norepinephrine reuptakr inhibitor as well that had an effect but I don’t think it was as pronounced as Wellbutrin. Unfortunately Wellbutrin turns me into an asshole so I don’t take it anymore but the physical affects and the original reason I went on it (lack of focus / inattentive adhd) we’re great. Also if I smoke marijuana it restores size as well. Crazy, I know.

I noticed this too
Cannabis makes my dick relaxed for sure
Sadly I abused if for long time and need to stop
My penis has been useless and shriveled.
I really think dohpmine is the main culprit in these instances

 

[DixieWrecked]

Thank you.

"I do find that unwanted effects like tight scrotum seem to be more prevalent with age, i dont recall ever having a tight package when i was doing 250mg sustanon on one shot"

This study (I have attached) which has been performed with rodents, I found relevant to the age related changes that may also occur in humans concerning sympathetic function in the penis and most likely in the rest of our peripheral vascular system. Owing to the penis having much less tolerance to these changes, it may be evident earlier due to a noticeable decline in erectile performance.
This sympathetic hyperactivity which appears to manifest around middle age is thought to be caused by oxidative stress in these tissues (and others).

"In the healthy state, there is a balance between ROS production and elimination, which is performed by enzymatic and non-enzymatic antioxidants agents such as SOD, catalase, peroxidase, and vitamins C and E. Oxidative stress occurs when the antioxidant capacity is diminished and/or ROS production is increased, causing an imbalance between ROS production and elimination in favour of their production".

This increase in reactive oxygen species (ROS), which therefore exacerbates oxidative stress is thought to impair the biological activity of Nitric oxide and soluble guanylyl cyclase, subsequently enhancing sympathetic neurotransmission.

This is a different etiology than that we have been discussing with excessive testosterone. However, put together may cause significant erectile difficulties in the aging male. The sympathetic elevation that a young man may experience from excessive testosterone may or may not not be enough to cause ED or the appearance of overly tight/shrunken genitals, but in an older male this may be a very different story, given aging has already amplified this activity.

One study I have read suggests that resistance to free radicals could be diminished when exposed to high levels of testosterone also, that is ROS and oxidative stress would then be elevated. This could mean testosterone when in excess may also work on a similar pathway in this regard to up-regulating sympathetic activity via an increase in oxidative stress, not just by increased mRNA expression for alpha-1a adrenoceptors.

It is not just the adrenergic pathway that is of interest here: The RhoA/Rho-kinase signalling pathway has great influence on the inhibitory mechanisms in the penis. I have also included an interesting study on diabetic mice which focuses more on the Rho-kinase pathway and oxidative stress. It is also speculated that this pathway may become up-regulated due to the effects of oxidative stress in the erectile tissues. Subjects with diabetes are known to have elevated levels of oxidative stress and much research is being carried out on them in regard to ED, diabetes being a high risk factor for ED.

Great information. So basically if we boost SOD this may help alleviate some symptoms discussed here. I wonder if this product would help.

SOD Booster, 30 vegetarian capsules - Life Extension

SOD Booster combines plant-derived nutrients to promote natural production of the body’s own antioxidant: superoxide dismutase.

www.lifeextension.com

and another article

How To Boost The Superoxide Dismutase - Life Extension

For years, scientists have sought a way to boost one of the body's most powerful natural antioxidant enzymes: superoxide dismutase (SOD).

www.lifeextension.com

 

[Dr.V.P.C.]

I have a personal theory on this. I’ve tried HCG with some success however size / hanging of scrotum seems to be tied to dopamine levels at least in my case. I’ve observed with dopamine related drugs such as Wellbutrin my size is restored and seems even better than before TRT as crazy as that sounds. I also notice it in the evenings without Wellbutrin or any other drug or supplement but still on TRT. I’ve also tried L Tyrosine with similar results. I think variances I’m dopamine that might be tied to testosterone in some way affect this issue. I can reproduce it every time with these meds that seem to be related. I did try a norepinephrine reuptakr inhibitor as well that had an effect but I don’t think it was as pronounced as Wellbutrin. Unfortunately Wellbutrin turns me into an asshole so I don’t take it anymore but the physical affects and the original reason I went on it (lack of focus / inattentive adhd) we’re great. Also if I smoke marijuana it restores size as well. Crazy, I know.

Such great info.
Have you ever tried pramipexole ? ( strong D1 D2 agonist)

 

[jonezee2014]

Such great info.
Have you ever tried pramipexole ? ( strong D1 D2 agonist)

I have not however I did try cabergoline at one point with similar results. It makes me very curious about the dopamine / prolactin relationship also

 

[mike7]

I have a personal theory on this. I’ve tried HCG with some success however size / hanging of scrotum seems to be tied to dopamine levels at least in my case. I’ve observed with dopamine related drugs such as Wellbutrin my size is restored and seems even better than before TRT as crazy as that sounds. I also notice it in the evenings without Wellbutrin or any other drug or supplement but still on TRT. I’ve also tried L Tyrosine with similar results. I think variances I’m dopamine that might be tied to testosterone in some way affect this issue. I can reproduce it every time with these meds that seem to be related. I did try a norepinephrine reuptakr inhibitor as well that had an effect but I don’t think it was as pronounced as Wellbutrin. Unfortunately Wellbutrin turns me into an asshole so I don’t take it anymore but the physical affects and the original reason I went on it (lack of focus / inattentive adhd) we’re great. Also if I smoke marijuana it restores size as well. Crazy, I know.

Marijuana is a vasodilator.

 

[Abonicex]

great, i'm having this problem too.

i lost like 1 inch to low t...

i thought it would be gone with trt...

but my penis keeps shrinking it seems.

it also has that problem of not having its proper fullness, but instead its like it keeps contracting more and more as if it was cold.

i'm adding hcg next few weeks, but i would like to know if someone knows more about this.

 

[Simbarn]

great, i'm having this problem too.

i lost like 1 inch to low t...

i thought it would be gone with trt...

but my penis keeps shrinking it seems.

it also has that problem of not having its proper fullness, but instead its like it keeps contracting more and more as if it was cold.

i'm adding hcg next few weeks, but i would like to know if someone knows more about this.

Abonicex, did you not read my post above? It may help you understand what may be occuring.

 

[DorianGray]

If you're going to experiment be sure to have all parameters measured and under the conditions before you begin anything.

 

[jonezee2014]

Going to add another piece of anecdotal evidence here - I’ve noticed when taking things that boost dopamine that no matter how cold my bits are that doesn’t affect the hanging, even with a cold shower. It’s almost as if under normal circumstances the cold does something to suppress dopamine to the point of causing severe shrinkage but these dopamine agonists override that. I’m convinced that controlling dopamine is a major component in all of this; if I could control not being an asshole when on it I would be taking Wellbutrin full time. It’s one of these things that I know it’s going to turn me into one but when something gets under my skin I simply cannot control what I say about it whatsoever and the filters are completely removed. If I was single I would do it because of the improvement in sex too but being in a relationship the aggressiveness is just not good.

 

[DS3]

Going to add another piece of anecdotal evidence here - I’ve noticed when taking things that boost dopamine that no matter how cold my bits are that doesn’t affect the hanging, even with a cold shower. It’s almost as if under normal circumstances the cold does something to suppress dopamine to the point of causing severe shrinkage but these dopamine agonists override that. I’m convinced that controlling dopamine is a major component in all of this; if I could control not being an asshole when on it I would be taking Wellbutrin full time. It’s one of these things that I know it’s going to turn me into one but when something gets under my skin I simply cannot control what I say about it whatsoever and the filters are completely removed. If I was single I would do it because of the improvement in sex too but being in a relationship the aggressiveness is just not good.

There is a simple remedy for counterbalancing dopamine-induced aggression: Serotonin. Try supplements that boost serotonin such as the precursor, tryptophan. You could also try and SSRI or Buspar to achieve the same effect.

Serotonin is a counterbalance to dopamine in many ways, including balancing aggression.

 

[jonezee2014]

There is a simple remedy for counterbalancing dopamine-induced aggression: Serotonin. Try supplements that boost serotonin such as the precursor, tryptophan. You could also try and SSRI or Buspar to achieve the same effect.

Serotonin is a counterbalance to dopamine in many ways, including balancing aggression.

Very interesting this is the first I’ve heard of this. Going to look into more…. Wellbutrin also made my motivation go through the roof. I’ve been diagnosed with inattentive ADHD which is why I started going down all these roads. Interestingly this onset wasn’t until my later years when I started TRT