Nandrolone Experiences

[Gman86]

Many of my clients report libido loss with Nandrolone, low doses or high doses. I never touched it for this reason, but have some curiosity about. I know that Nandrolone can act in the vasoconstriction too, as mentioned here, besides the neuro-desregulation and the DHN issues. All of this can contribute to erectlyle disfunction. Some of users here even utilize anti-prolac drugs to combat the issues (but this kind of drugs are dangerous too). So, as I seen all of this Deca-Only users are playing russian roulete and thats not a long term warranty that it will work forever.

About DHT, damn.. I'm realy wanting to add Proviron or Masteron to my TRT..

It’s interesting that men use anti prolactin drugs with nandrolone. Nandrolone produces very little prolactin on its own. Much less than testosterone. I would theorize that the only reason that someone would need an anti prolactin drug, when using nandrolone, is because they’re also using another compound that converts decently to prolactin, such as testosterone.

 

[benaoao]

I do have the same belief regarding an anti estrogenic effect from DHT. I thank you for all the solid data you’ve been sharing consistently throughout this thread.

As I’ve been having very dry joints, skin, hair forever and low estradiol many times naturally I believe that I need to rebalance the androgen/estrogen ratio ASAP... It implies tweaking and some trial and error but hopefully it ends up working out for me. An alternative was Test + Dutasteride but IDK... not so exciting. Besides, Bhasin’s study on the matter didn’t show much difference there.

I do dig DHN’s weak androgenic potency. Couldn’t care less about libido for now, as I don’t live with my GF and we’re both locked down in different cities.

 

[bochinit]

This types of drugs are used for Parkinson, they recap dopamine. This can help with libido, but that's not the only mechanism behind Deca-Dick, as I explained in the last post.

 

[benaoao]

Just in case this study flew under the radar among all of @Nelson Vergel shared papers in his sticky.

Effects of Resistance Exercise Training and Nandrolone Decanoate on Body Composition and Muscle Function among Patients Who Receive Hemodialysis: A Randomized, Controlled Trial

Patients who received nandrolone decanoate increased their LBM by 3.1 ± 2.2 kg (P < 0.0001). Exercise did not result in a significant increase in LBM. Quadriceps muscle cross-sectional area increased in patients who were assigned to exercise (P = 0.01) and to nandrolone (P < 0.0001) in an additive manner.

so much for "hard work ethics" and "consistency" netting "gainz". I'm curious to track my regimen of Nandrolone + quarantine and how much it obliterates my natural/HCG monotherapy + gym days.

Finally, there was an increase in anger in the group that received nandrolone decanoate alone but not in the group that received nandrolone and performed resistance exercise training

ah, crap. Maybe I'll lash out randomly if I don't do push ups and single leg squats

EDIT - Their "training" routine was an ABSOLUTE JOKE. Leg curls and extension with weighed ankles. So there's that. Why do scientists do this??

 

[DS3]

It’s interesting that men use anti prolactin drugs with nandrolone. Nandrolone produces very little prolactin on its own. Much less than testosterone. I would theorize that the only reason that someone would need an anti prolactin drug, when using nandrolone, is because they’re also using another compound that converts decently to prolactin, such as testosterone.

Bloodwork doesn't seem to corroborate that hypothesis, though. No net effect on Prolactin is seen when adding a therapeutic level of nandrolone to TRT.

 

[DS3]

This types of drugs are used for Parkinson, they recap dopamine. This can help with libido, but that's not the only mechanism behind Deca-Dick, as I explained in the last post.

Read up.

3 Reasons for "Deca D*ck"

Anyway to give the abridged version? Okay I will but my thought is as simple as the titles of the studies. 1) the loss of endothelium vasodilation because less availability of NO, because of NO saturation of the muscles by strenious excercise(aka pump). 2) Overstimulation by N of the...

www.excelmale.com

 

[benaoao]

While I'm at it with this one study:

Sixty-eight patients completed the study. Reasons for noncompletion are shown in Figure 1. [...] Those who received nandrolone discontinued because of interference with sexual function (after five doses) and fear of possible adverse effects (after three doses).

It's always funny when placebo groups have the worst side effects. One guy did report sexual issues. Perhaps he spent too much time reading about Deca dick?

 

[Gman86]

Bloodwork doesn't seem to corroborate that hypothesis, though. No net effect on Prolactin is seen when adding a therapeutic level of nandrolone to TRT.

Exactly. Why do u think guys seem to use anti prolactin drugs, with good effect, when using nandrolone? Since nandrolone produces very little prolactin on its own, it doesn’t really make sense why anti prolactin drugs would have a positive effect, when using nandrolone. But according to anecdotes, when experiencing ED issues, anti prolactin drugs seem to have a positive effect. I assume it’s due to the interaction the nandrolone is having with whatever compounds they are taking.

 

[benaoao]

I think it's safe to say that prolactin goes up as estrogen content in tissue goes up.

Perhaps it's the increased free E2 from 19nor use, since SHBG can drop to single digits. I'm not sure.

The abstract below got me wondering - Perhaps it's nandrolone itself being estrogenic with cumulative high doses?

Rapid yeast estrogen bioassays stably expressing human estrogen receptors alpha and beta, and green fluorescent protein: a comparison of different ... - PubMed - NCBI

The anabolic agent, 19-nortestosterone showed a clear dose-related response with estrogen receptor but not beta

However, table 1 shows "relative estrogenic potency" of Nandrolone to be a million times less than E2! 1000 times less than estriol... That's not very estrogenic if you ask me, however clear the dose-response is.

Have you guys ever seen this study? Their way to quantify anabolic steroid binding to multiple receptors is super interesting IMO. I'm drawn towards Nandrolone's affinity to the PR doing something with regards to side effects. I just don't know what.

https://sci-hub.tw/https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003267008016139?via=ihub

 

[DS3]

Exactly. Why do u think guys seem to use anti prolactin drugs, with good effect, when using nandrolone? Since nandrolone produces very little prolactin on its own, it doesn’t really make sense why anti prolactin drugs would have a positive effect, when using nandrolone. But according to anecdotes, when experiencing ED issues, anti prolactin drugs seem to have a positive effect. I assume it’s due to the interaction the nandrolone is having with whatever compounds they are taking.

Likely because as the report demonstrates below, dopamine (which can be reduced through nandrolone administration) is integral in libido, as is testosterone, and precedes the nitric oxide and acetylcholine release ending in genital stimulation. Cabergoline, a dopamine agonist, would logically increase dopamine, enhancing libido.

In fact, when I used 150 mg of nandrolone per week for 8 weeks Q4 of last year, I added in Caber to see if it would impact my libido and ED (given that I have ED with nandrolone But don’t at any other time). I can testify that it worked as my libido and erections were great, but Caber gave me the same crashed E2 feeling that Adex does (dry skin, achy joints, brittle hair, etc.). So that essentially negates the entire reason that most guys use nandrolone- joint relief.

“Dopamine and testosterone promote libido. Estrogen may also pro- mote libido, whereas prolactin can reduce it. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c996/15d52f25438b63c415951e8dbc8ba07a2663.pdf

 

[benaoao]

Cabergoline sounds too potent. Even B6 (not p5p) does that crashed E2 feeling to me.

 

[Gman86]

Likely because as the report demonstrates below, dopamine (which can be reduced through nandrolone administration) is integral in libido, as is testosterone, and precedes the nitric oxide and acetylcholine release ending in genital stimulation. Cabergoline, a dopamine agonist, would logically increase dopamine, enhancing libido.

In fact, when I used 150 mg of nandrolone per week for 8 weeks Q4 of last year, I added in Caber to see if it would impact my libido and ED (given that I have ED with nandrolone But don’t at any other time). I can testify that it worked as my libido and erections were great, but Caber gave me the same crashed E2 feeling that Adex does (dry skin, achy joints, brittle hair, etc.). So that essentially negates the entire reason that most guys use nandrolone- joint relief.

“Dopamine and testosterone promote libido. Estrogen may also pro- mote libido, whereas prolactin can reduce it. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c996/15d52f25438b63c415951e8dbc8ba07a2663.pdf

I think you might be on to something here! That may exactly be why caber improves sexual function when guys use nandrolone. It might not be, but this is the most logical explanation I’ve ever personally seen.

I’ve been using nandrolone as my base for almost 2 months. So far, libido hasn’t been an issue, an erections seem better than ever, thank god. I won’t be experimenting and seeing if caber does in fact improve things even more, but I would love to do that experiment and find out. But I’m with Defy, and I doubt they would be ok with me running a little caber experiment just for the hell of it lol.

 

[benaoao]

I think you might be on to something here! That may exactly be why caber improves sexual function when guys use nandrolone. It might not be, but this is the most logical explanation I’ve ever personally seen.

I’ve been using nandrolone as my base for almost 2 months. So far, libido hasn’t been an issue, an erections seem better than ever, thank god. I won’t be experimenting and seeing if caber does in fact improve things even more, but I would love to do that experiment and find out. But I’m with Defy, and I doubt they would be ok with me running a little caber experiment just for the hell of it lol.

Like I was saying above, Basic B6 can be on par with Caber. There’s a study on 300mg/day yielding similar outcomes to Caber. Amazon is your friend!

 

[Rock H. Johnson]

Likely because as the report demonstrates below, dopamine (which can be reduced through nandrolone administration) is integral in libido, as is testosterone, and precedes the nitric oxide and acetylcholine release ending in genital stimulation. Cabergoline, a dopamine agonist, would logically increase dopamine, enhancing libido.

In fact, when I used 150 mg of nandrolone per week for 8 weeks Q4 of last year, I added in Caber to see if it would impact my libido and ED (given that I have ED with nandrolone But don’t at any other time). I can testify that it worked as my libido and erections were great, but Caber gave me the same crashed E2 feeling that Adex does (dry skin, achy joints, brittle hair, etc.). So that essentially negates the entire reason that most guys use nandrolone- joint relief.

“Dopamine and testosterone promote libido. Estrogen may also pro- mote libido, whereas prolactin can reduce it. https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c996/15d52f25438b63c415951e8dbc8ba07a2663.pdf

This is exactly why I mentioned the 2 research papers in the Deca D*ck thread.
Thank you for confirming, acknowledging my findings.

 

[DS3]

This is exactly why I mentioned the 2 research papers in the Deca D*ck thread.
Thank you for confirming, acknowledging my findings.

Yes sir. Thanks for posting. I don’t think that dopamine is the full story behind Deca Dick, nor do we know what the long-term consequences of reduced density of dopamineric neurons within the limbic system will be, or what other short-term consequences may present themselves. But, given the evidence, I do think dopamine is a significant part of the story.

Also, a negative impact on dopamine woul occur at a neurochemical level as result of nandrolone administration, not as a result of some form of conditioning.

 

[andrepohlann]

It’s interesting that men use anti prolactin drugs with nandrolone. Nandrolone produces very little prolactin on its own. Much less than testosterone. I would theorize that the only reason that someone would need an anti prolactin drug, when using nandrolone, is because they’re also using another compound that converts decently to prolactin, such as testosterone.
[/Q

This actually may not be true. Androgen receptors cannot tell the difference whether being stimulated by nandrolone, or testosterone. Nandrolone cannot be run by itself for HRT purposes, due to the very low aromatization. But from my understanding, nandrolone can be used for a base, in regards to HRT, and a small dose of testosterone could be used to give a slight bump in E2.

The only issue I see, in regards to HRT, is that I don’t think nandrolone can legally be prescribed for a sole TRT compound. Obviously it can be prescribed, in addition to testosterone, for HRT, but I wonder if defy would ever switch the ratio, and allow a patient to use nandrolone as a TRT base, with a small dose of testosterone. I know a Defy patient that was prescribed a 1:1 ratio of test:deca. So it doesn’t seem out of the question for them to prescribe say 150mg of deca, with 50-75mg of test

You know what you are talking about. I had similiar thou

@Jason Sypolt im not saying I’m right, and you’re wrong. I’m just saying that there’s a lot of info about nandrolone that I had no idea about, until talking to a few guys in depth about it, specifically one guy that was extremely helpful, that is currently using 300mg of deca, 40mg of test, and 500iu’s of HCG per week, and feels amazing and says his libido is annoyingly high. All I’m saying is that you’re clearly a very intelligent guy, and know your stuff when it comes to hormones and wellness. I’d love for you to take a deep dive into nandrolone, and hear your interpretation of the information, specifically in regards to the possibilities of switching the ratios, and using nandrolone as a base, and using testosterone as an add-on, instead of the other way around.

Completely agree. I stated that above. It cannot be used as a replacement for T, in regards to HRT. At least when using it by itself. The aromatization is too low. On 300mg of deca alone, E2 seems to be around 5-6. 300mg of deca is overkill for HRT, and just like with testosterone, 200-250mg/ week of deca would be the upper limit. So obviously that would result in even less E2, which would be even worse. So no, Deca mono for HRT would not work.

I don’t see why, theoretically, it can’t be used successfully as a base though, with a small dose of T to boost E2.

I know you don’t like to give doses, in regards to your protocol, but would you be willing to just give your weekly T and deca doses? Clearly the combo is working very well for you. If you don’t want to disclose your doses, would you be willing to at least give the exact ratio of T:deca you’re currently using? Thanks again for everything, you’ve been extremely helpful with all the info that you’ve shared. Not just with deca, just in general on here.

I was not reading this topic till the end yet. I was thinking the same thoughts for a while. The ratio idea is wrong in my opinion. You argue Deca makes tissues more sensible to E2 and Prolactin. The activity of aromatase is very different between males. I aromatise like crazy. 15mg TE/d increase my bloodpressure due to E2 water retention. My point is: Set a fix ammount of Nandrolone ( lets say 120mg/w) and maybe 30-40mg T. You need just enough T to produce a functional ammount of E2. Not too little nor too much. It is not more T needed when Nandrolone increases. If something changes it should be less N. So there is no fixed ratio. It is hard to say what the right ammount of T is. Too much T and you should start to get sides like bloating, too little and your cardiovaskular healtt might suffer. In my case I can use bloodpressure as proxy. It increases as soon E2 goes up. But it might be different for others.

 

[andrepohlann]

"I think you’re assuming that the things he says about nandrolone are his opinion."

@Gman86 Hardly. I believe he has likely read a plethora of studies regarding nandrolone. However, without the ability to conduct a series of studies to test hypotheses such as the ones that Taeian has come up with after correlating data from various studies, touting those hypotheses as fact without testing them is the epitome of pseudoscience.

It is all good and fine to read studies and report on them and posit hypotheses, but without the ability to test hypotheses, it really stops there.

"I understand that most people feel more comfortable hearing the information come out of a doctors mouth, and trust what they’re saying is correct if they have a PHD next to their name, but what you have to understand is that Taeian and physicians are reading the same exact studies."

Agree completely. However, journal access is limited as a layperson. The problem is that without post-graduate training to fully understand the implications of scientific studies, especially training in pharmacology or a related field in medicine, relying on a layperson's (e.g. Taeian) ability to decipher the true implications of studies regarding nandrolone is unreliable at best.

I think you judge to hard. Even the experience of one person can be used to create a hypothesis. This hypothesis could be tested on or by others. Than you have many
anecdotes. How many are needed to call it data? You might know there are obeservational studies. There are studies based on questionnaires. Most of nutritionscience is based on this (meat causes cancer, low protein equals longevity and so on). You can publish and read this "unscientific" studies in journals. So what exactly is different when people tell there experiences on ******** or here?

 

[Gman86]

You know what you are talking about. I had similiar thou


I was not reading this topic till the end yet. I was thinking the same thoughts for a while. The ratio idea is wrong in my opinion. You argue Deca makes tissues more sensible to E2 and Prolactin. The activity of aromatase is very different between males. I aromatise like crazy. 15mg TE/d increase my bloodpressure due to E2 water retention. My point is: Set a fix ammount of Nandrolone ( lets say 120mg/w) and maybe 30-40mg T. You need just enough T to produce a functional ammount of E2. Not too little nor too much. It is not more T needed when Nandrolone increases. If something changes it should be less N. So there is no fixed ratio. It is hard to say what the right ammount of T is. Too much T and you should start to get sides like bloating, too little and your cardiovaskular healtt might suffer. In my case I can use bloodpressure as proxy. It increases as soon E2 goes up. But it might be different for others.

On 200mg of deca, 42mg of test, and 525iu’s of HCG, blood pressure was around 120/80. This was with an E2 of 24.

On April 2nd, to try and get my E2 up, I changed my protocol to 200mg deca, 63mg test, and 625iu’s of HCG. Just checked my BP with a machine, and here are the results. Left and right arm. Not sure why the pulse rate was so different. Also, I changed my diet like 6 days ago. Basically doing carnivore, as well as a little white rice each day, and a little bit of fruit, like berries, apples, and a little watermelon. Literally eating nothing else. Mostly meat, quite a bit of fats from the meats and ghee, and pretty low carb. Like 100g/ day. So changing the diet might of had something to do with the BP improvements. Actually photos wouldn’t upload. Here were the results from taking my BP like 5 mins ago.

Left arm - 100/63 pulse- 85
Right arm - 113/63 pulse - 73

 

[DS3]

I think you judge to hard. Even the experience of one person can be used to create a hypothesis. This hypothesis could be tested on or by others. Than you have many
anecdotes. How many are needed to call it data? You might know there are obeservational studies. There are studies based on questionnaires. Most of nutritionscience is based on this (meat causes cancer, low protein equals longevity and so on). You can publish and read this "unscientific" studies in journals. So what exactly is different when people tell there experiences on ******** or here?

Anecdotal evidence can never be used as data in the world of science. Anecdotes can be used to generate hypotheses that can then be tested using the strictures of the scientific method, but not as data points themselves that we can put definitive stock in. And in cases where no scientific evidence, or minimal, exists, doctors can use anecdotal evidence to help guide their decisions. However, in these cases, it is always best to make evidence-based decisions.

Yes, I am acutely aware of observation studies and poll data. Observational studies are also conducted under the strictures of the scientific method before conclusions are drawn. Then, all studies are subject to peer review, replicability, and scrutiny of methods used.

Laypeople do not have the training (or resources) to conduct studies that are conducted as rigorously and that are reliable, valid, and replicable.

As far as the epidemiological research you refer to (research on meat, etc.), these studies are conducted by trained research scientists who are trained in scientific research and statistical analysis. However, inherent limitations of epidemiological research are known (ecological fallacy, research bias, etc.). While ecological data is useful in helping establish correlations between a set of variables, this data is very poor is establishing correlations between that same set of variables at the level of individuals. In all honesty, do you really think that people like Taeian Clark are conducting epidemiological research???

Practical limitations of epidemiologic methods - PMC

Epidemiologic methods can be categorized into demographic studies of mortality and morbidity and observational studies that are either retrospective or prospective. Some of the limitations of demographic studies are illustrated by a review of one ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Taeian Clark has not the training nor intelligence to conduct valid and reliable research for us to make informed decisions from. Dr.Thomas O’Connell said it best when he said Taeian Clark is a moron.

What is different between research conducted by scientists using the scientific method of inquiry to determine correlation or causation between a set of variables and just a normal person using their personal experience for proof of concept with no scientific research (such as ‘using Deca as a base is superior to Test because look at me and my bloodwork). Is that something I really have to explain? Is the difference not clear?

 

[DS3]

2 weeks in on 125mg e5d - which i settled for since I used to run 125 mg of test E e5d and have done that for 18 months straight back in 2016-2017. Picture below was June’17. Unseen on the pic: destroyed joints, insulin resistance (HBA1c 6.2%), some acne. Diet hasn’t changed so I’m supposing it was inherent to Test. Might have been my fault for feeling like “injecting testosterone” justified a “higher TRT for better physique”. 75-125 may have been sufficient, I don’t know

View attachment 9610

Anyways - I’ve lost most of my “TRT” gains in 2018-2019. I’ve dropped HCG as an experiment. Honestly I’m enjoying Deca so far. Since Nandrolone activates AR, and has some estrogenic activity on ERa (shared a study elsewhere), I’ve come to the conclusion that phytoestrogens - those evil demons - could be an alternative to HCG/Testosterone? They bind to ERb.

Honestly I feel great thus far. BP is a bit high maybe, joints feel smooth, libido is high, good sleep, good pumps, no more scalp itch (DHT?), skin is good. Whenever I drink that soy milk it warms me up in no time. Perhaps that stuff works.

Glad you are feeling good! Keep us updated on your progress in your new regimen. Hoping it works out well for you!