Holy sh$t, that physique in the pic was while just on 175mg/ week of test?? That’s amazing
What’s your current protocol again?
Nandrolone Experiences
- Thread starter DS3
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Holy sh$t, that physique in the pic was while just on 175mg/ week of test?? That’s amazing
What’s your current protocol again?
125mg e5d, no HCG no Test no peptides nothing, that and drinking soy milk haha. I may want to grab some melanotan soon. ‘Tis the season... Some say it’s estrogenic.
I went from 6’3 185 to 210lbs always around 10% fat. Funny because gym buddies thought I was 230+. Nope. I’ve tried bumping this up with oral steroids and got as high as 225 but that’s what orals do... easy come easy go. From reviewing my bloodworks total test was always a tad high over 1300 ng/dL and free T at least twice the range. Not exactly “replacement therapy” lol. It was fine on the outside - if I ever hop back on it I’ll consider finasteride for sure, and lower doses.
will keep giving updates on that Deca only run
What was the 125mg of? U then say after to it, no HCG, no test.
And are you currently running deca, or areyou currently on nothing, and plan on running deca? And what’s the deca protocol look like? Sorry, I’m easily confused I guess lol.Just trying to clarify, because u look like u were on a host of steroids in that pic, so it’s extremely impressive if you weren’t.
Rock H. Johnson
Active Member
As a nurse you know that BP fluctuates throughout the day and that you need to take at least 3 consequetive measurements to get a proper average or final measurement each time. I measure my BP any moment throughout the day (I have a handheld device which I keep in my pocket) to get a clear picture what is happening to me while changing protocol or dosing. My experience and this is why I asked you about your BP before while you changed to a Nandro base, I get BP spikes around 20:00-23:00 which could be 12-14hours after my injection so my T, HCG, etc could be peaking. I started doing this as I sensed some real changes throughout the day. I adjusted my dose and I am taking a NO drink in the afternoon to mitigate the evening BP changes. Maybe you are to bizzy as a nurse to do this but I am curious, if you would do multiple BP measurements throughout the day what the results are?
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andrepohlann
Member
I see. I am also on this unhealthy diet for two years, zero carbs beside a little milk in my coffee, and yes it reduces bloodpressure. But I can manage to bring it up by increased E2. With 12mg TE/d BP is like 116/68. 15mg/d for longer time it goes up to 135. 0,5mg Arimidex and it is back to low after 2 days. Not the biggest fan of AI though. Anyway back to Deca.
Last Summer I was for 10 weeks on Deca only. Mostly 200mg/w, one week 300mg. No influence on BP. Nice dry muscle gains. Erections were normel (means good in my case
)BUT I was not much interested in sex at all. Not zero but low. The thing is it feels ok after a while. But there is also an emotional calmness I dislike. Maybe it is the lack of E2, I do not know. I stopped because of this and I was affraid what happens longterm with my cardiovascular system on Deca only. I did not test blood. So no idea about my lipids. I wish now I did. I could compare.
Second trial of Deca: And of 2019 I combined 100mg TE with 45mg Nandrolone. This test was influenced by Dr. Lichtens (??) aproach. It was hell. I was moody argued with everybody for no reason, BP went up to 154/74 (only systolic ). I stopped it.
This might be not the case for everybody. As I said I am quite good in converting T to E. Btw. my BF is less than 10% year round. If it goes up I diet. Probably an AI would have helped. And someone with an lower aromatase activity might be good with this ratio. All guessing.
What I test now is this. I start with 120mg N and 30mg TE next week. There should be enought T in me till the N gets up. After it I increase T to 45 and see how I feel. After staying there for while I will test E2. In a way I can conclude indirectly from my bloodpressure. Lets see.
Thanks for all your input.
andrepohlann
Member
Do you know where your HDL is?125mg e5d, no HCG no Test no peptides nothing, that and drinking soy milk haha. I may want to grab some melanotan soon. ‘Tis the season... Some say it’s estrogenic.
I went from 6’3 185 to 210lbs always around 10% fat. Funny because gym buddies thought I was 230+. Nope. I’ve tried bumping this up with oral steroids and got as high as 225 but that’s what orals do... easy come easy go. From reviewing my bloodworks total test was always a tad high over 1300 ng/dL and free T at least twice the range. Not exactly “replacement therapy” lol. It was fine on the outside - if I ever hop back on it I’ll consider finasteride for sure, and lower doses.
will keep giving updates on that Deca only run
Rock H. Johnson
Active Member
Last Summer I was for 10 weeks on Deca only. Mostly 200mg/w, one week 300mg. No influence on BP. Nice dry muscle gains. Erections were normel (means good in my caseI see. I am also on this unhealthy diet for two years, zero carbs beside a little milk in my coffee, and yes it reduces bloodpressure. But I can manage to bring it up by increased E2. With 12mg TE/d BP is like 116/68. 15mg/d for longer time it goes up to 135. 0,5mg Arimidex and it is back to low after 2 days. Not the biggest fan of AI though. Anyway back to Deca.
Last Summer I was for 10 weeks on Deca only. Mostly 200mg/w, one week 300mg. No influence on BP. Nice dry muscle gains. Erections were normel (means good in my case
BUT I was not much interested in sex at all. Not zero but low. The thing is it feels ok after a while. But there is also an emotional calmness I dislike. Maybe it is the lack of E2, I do not know. I stopped because of this and I was affraid what happens longterm with my cardiovascular system on Deca only. I did not test blood. So no idea about my lipids. I wish now I did. I could compare.
Second trial of Deca: And of 2019 I combined 100mg TE with 45mg Nandrolone. This test was influenced by Dr. Lichtens (??) aproach. It was hell. I was moody argued with everybody for no reason, BP went up to 154/74 (only systolic ). I stopped it.
This might be not the case for everybody. As I said I am quite good in converting T to E. Btw. my BF is less than 10% year round. If it goes up I diet. Probably an AI would have helped. And someone with an lower aromatase activity might be good with this ratio. All guessing.
What I test now is this. I start with 120mg N and 30mg TE next week. There should be enought T in me till the N gets up. After it I increase T to 45 and see how I feel. After staying there for while I will test E2. In a way I can conclude indirectly from my bloodpressure. Lets see.
Thanks for all your input.
)BUT I was not much interested in sex at all. Not zero but low. The thing is it feels ok after a while. But there is also an emotional calmness I dislike. Maybe it is the lack of E2, I do not know. I stopped because of this and I was affraid what happens longterm with my cardiovascular system on Deca only. I did not test blood. So no idea about my lipids. I wish now I did. I could compare.
Downregulation of Dopamine receptors would be my guess.
Dopamine’s role in sexual desire: https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/c996/15d52f25438b63c415951e8dbc8ba07a2663.pdf
Nandrolone effect on dopaminergic neurons:
Nandrolone effect on dopaminergic neurons:
Ya I can definitely do this for ya, and for me. Just waking up now. I’ll go check my BP and see what readings I get. I’ll check 2 more times throughout today and report back as well.
Last Summer I was for 10 weeks on Deca only. Mostly 200mg/w, one week 300mg. No influence on BP. Nice dry muscle gains. Erections were normel (means good in my case
BUT I was not much interested in sex at all. Not zero but low. The thing is it feels ok after a while. But there is also an emotional calmness I dislike. Maybe it is the lack of E2, I do not know. I stopped because of this and I was affraid what happens longterm with my cardiovascular system on Deca only. I did not test blood. So no idea about my lipids. I wish now I did. I could compare.
Downregulation of Dopamine receptors would be my guess.
It could definitely be dopamine, but Taeian clark has a whole fb group of guys using deca only, with good success. Yes, most of them cycle, but there are a lot of guys that also do lower doses of deca, with low dose test or low dose E2 cream, and they do it indefinitely, like we do HRT, without any issues. I talk to a guy all the time that’s been using deca as his base for 2+ years now, and he’s still doing amazing. Really hoping this downregulating of dopamine thing isn’t true in humans in real life. I’m hoping to keep deca as the base of my HRT indefinitely, and dopamine is way too important for too many things.
I can think of two people that have done 300mg of deca only, and had their E2 tested. One came back at 6.0, and the other came back at 5.7. Obviously E2 would of been even lower if they were running 200mg/ week by itself, like you guys were doing. Wouldn’t you think having an E2 possibly between 0-6 would be the first thing that we should be looking at to cast blame for any issues?
I see. I am also on this unhealthy diet for two years, zero carbs beside a little milk in my coffee, and yes it reduces bloodpressure. But I can manage to bring it up by increased E2. With 12mg TE/d BP is like 116/68. 15mg/d for longer time it goes up to 135. 0,5mg Arimidex and it is back to low after 2 days. Not the biggest fan of AI though. Anyway back to Deca.
Last Summer I was for 10 weeks on Deca only. Mostly 200mg/w, one week 300mg. No influence on BP. Nice dry muscle gains. Erections were normel (means good in my case
BUT I was not much interested in sex at all. Not zero but low. The thing is it feels ok after a while. But there is also an emotional calmness I dislike. Maybe it is the lack of E2, I do not know. I stopped because of this and I was affraid what happens longterm with my cardiovascular system on Deca only. I did not test blood. So no idea about my lipids. I wish now I did. I could compare.
Second trial of Deca: And of 2019 I combined 100mg TE with 45mg Nandrolone. This test was influenced by Dr. Lichtens (??) aproach. It was hell. I was moody argued with everybody for no reason, BP went up to 154/74 (only systolic ). I stopped it.
This might be not the case for everybody. As I said I am quite good in converting T to E. Btw. my BF is less than 10% year round. If it goes up I diet. Probably an AI would have helped. And someone with an lower aromatase activity might be good with this ratio. All guessing.
What I test now is this. I start with 120mg N and 30mg TE next week. There should be enought T in me till the N gets up. After it I increase T to 45 and see how I feel. After staying there for while I will test E2. In a way I can conclude indirectly from my bloodpressure. Lets see.
Thanks for all your input.
So you’re doing carnivore right now? Why do you say it’s unhealthy? From all the research I’ve done it seems like one of the healthiest diets humans can do, and is how most of our ancestors would of ate for millions of years. Along with seasonal fruits I would imagine, and tubers when meat was scarce. I’d love to get your feedback on the diet if you don’t mind private messaging me.
@Rock H. Johnson
Just checked. 106/62. Pulse was 60. Took a pic of the BP reading, but for some reason it’s not allowing me to upload any images
Just checked. 106/62. Pulse was 60. Took a pic of the BP reading, but for some reason it’s not allowing me to upload any images
So you’re just running 175mg of deca per week right now, nothing else? How long have you been running this? Your E2 is going to be tanked. Most likely <5
There’s no doubt that nandrolone seems to effect dopamine. But estrogen depravation also effects dopamine. Estrogen depravation actually leads to the death of dopamine cells in the brain. What’s impossible for us to know is, whether nandrolone’s effect on dopamine is due to lack of estrogen, or some other mechanism. To figure out which it is, I would assume a study would need to be done using nandrolone, as well as estrogen supplementation to get estrogen into a healthy range. If nandrolone still effects dopamine negatively, then its a little safer to assume that nandrolone’s effects on dopamine aren’t just due to lack of estrogen.
For the estrogen hypothesis to be taken seriously, those who take exogenous T with nandrolone shouldn’t experience ED, but we know that some men do (in clinical settings). The exogenous T would maintain healthy estradiol levels while adding in nandrolone. Taking that into consideration, how could low E2 be the cause?
And when we are talking about estrogen deprivation, we are talking about negligible levels of estradiol that would be impossible to achieve outside of Anastrozole abuse. Using nandrolone on TRT would not, outside of adex abuse, lead to negligible estradiol.
Dopamine impact libido--> libido precedes the release of nitric oxide and acetylcholine for genital stimulation. Lower dopamine would impact erectile function.
Dopamine and male sexual function - PubMed
The use of the D1/D2 dopamine receptor agonist apomorphine for the treatment of erectile dysfunction provides strong support in favor of a participation of the dopaminergic system in the control of sexual function. However, the exact involvement of dopamine in the control of sexual motivation...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
The potential for ED and libido dysfunction while co-administering nandrolone and T is a complicated topic. Due to the fact that co-administration of nandrolone and T is the generally prescribed use of nandrolone and the fact that some men experience ED during that protocol or during nandrolone base use without an aromatizing drug, it can't be inferred that negligible estradiol is to blame for the potential negative effects. You have men who maintain proper E2 during nandrolone & T administration that experience ED and/or lowered libido. Conversely, you have some men who run T & N who experience no ED and report significantly elevated sense of well-being and increased libido. Then, you have men (small group of men that do this) who run a nandrolone base and experience ED with or without adding an aromatizing drug to the protocol. Conversely, you have similar protocols run by other men who claim that this is a 'nectar of the gods' protocol.
It can't be as simple as estrogen or the lackthereof, nor does it have to be as complicated as stating that there can be zero common factors. The likelihood that the occurrence of ED and/or lowered libido is a combination of low androgenicity of nandrolone, potential for decreased dopamine, potential for reduced bioavailable nitric oxide, potential for low E2 (if used as a base), and potential other explanations regarding the relationship between progesterone and estrogen are all viable. The likelihood that the impact of these factors, aggregated or separate, express themselves with varying degrees in individual patients would also be a factor and further confound what the common etiology is behind lowered libido and/or ED while using nandrolone in therapeutic settings.
I'll tell you what, though. You and I will have more confident answers for these occurrences in the future! Studies will be conducted, hopefully, as nandrolone is being used more frequently as a therapeutic agent.
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Haha drink up. No was just curious obv due to the lack of E2 you must have right now. Let us know if you end up experiencing any low E2 sides. Idk how you’re not gonna experience them very shortly, but hey, miracles do happen lol. Jk. Everyone’s so different, and is effected so differently by hormones. I just don’t see how it would be possible for anyone to not have low E2 symptoms with low single digit E2 levels. Definitely keep us posted. Very curious to see how you do on this deca only protocol.
So sexual function is still good? Libido and erections fine? You probably have hormones still in ur system from whatever protocol u were on prior to the deca right?
Dopamine impact libido--> libido precedes the release of nitric oxide and acetylcholine for genital stimulation. Lower dopamine would impact erectile function.
Dopamine and male sexual function - PubMed
The use of the D1/D2 dopamine receptor agonist apomorphine for the treatment of erectile dysfunction provides strong support in favor of a participation of the dopaminergic system in the control of sexual function. However, the exact involvement of dopamine in the control of sexual motivation...
The potential for ED and libido dysfunction while co-administering nandrolone and T is a complicated topic. Due to the fact that co-administration of nandrolone and T is the generally prescribed use of nandrolone and the fact that some men experience ED during that protocol or during nandrolone base use without an aromatizing drug, it can't be inferred that negligible estradiol is to blame for the potential negative effects. You have men who maintain proper E2 during nandrolone & T administration that experience ED and/or lowered libido. Conversely, you have some men who run T & N who experience no ED and report significantly elevated sense of well-being and increased libido. Then, you have men (small group of men that do this) who run a nandrolone base and experience ED with or without adding an aromatizing drug to the protocol. Conversely, you have similar protocols run by other men who claim that this is a 'nectar of the gods' protocol.
It can't be as simple as estrogen or the lackthereof, nor does it have to be as complicated as stating that there can be zero common factors. The likelihood that the occurrence of ED and/or lowered libido is a combination of low androgenicity of nandrolone, potential for decreased dopamine, potential for reduced bioavailable nitric oxide, potential for low E2 (if used as a base), and potential other explanations regarding the relationship between progesterone and estrogen are all viable. The likelihood that the impact of these factors, aggregated or separate, express themselves with varying degrees in individual patients would also be a factor and further confound what the common etiology is behind lowered libido and/or ED while using nandrolone in therapeutic settings.
I'll tell you what, though. You and I will have more confident answers for these occurrences in the future! Studies will be conducted, hopefully, as nandrolone is being used more frequently as a therapeutic agent.
Ya no doubt dopamine plays a big role in sexual function. Really really looking forward to more research on these topics, especially since I plan on using deca as my base indefinitely.
I was on some HCG but I doubt I’m not fully suppressed by now, 12 days in. Studies show it goes down fast especially after a front load on my first injection. I’ve done 250mg day 1, 125 day 6, 125 day 11. No “low E2” sides unless you call being incrementally more annoyed at covid19 a low E2 side
to be fully honest I have HCG on hand but I don’t feel the need for it rn.
this is my current shape. I’ve dropped 20+ pounds since my “TRT” days, and it seems I’m getting fuller 24/7 already. Curious to see Where I’m at in 2-4-6 months.
View attachment 9618
Looking great obv. Really interested to see the difference in your physique going from 175mg of test to 175mg of deca. Glad ur not experiencing any low E2 sides. Obv hope u never do. Would be very interesting if you don’t. I know nandrolone lowers SHBG quite a bit, so maybe guys on deca don’t need as much E2, due to a lot of that E2 being free to activate receptors.
Yeah that’s my intuition as well. That Dr O’Connor patient had E2 down to 6 and reported no side effects, but their SHBG was even lower iirc.
I’m always wondering how much of all this is about androgen/estrogen ratio (DHN is weak, so low E2 is sufficient to balance it out?), whether estrogen receptor sensitivity is improved with less circulating estradiol, I just don’t know. Perhaps a DXA would be useful eventually.
I’m always wondering how much of all this is about androgen/estrogen ratio (DHN is weak, so low E2 is sufficient to balance it out?), whether estrogen receptor sensitivity is improved with less circulating estradiol, I just don’t know. Perhaps a DXA would be useful eventually.
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