I’ve read that study, it’s based on 15mg/kg per day. So for a 220lb guy we are talking about over 1000mg a week. That’s not the dose we we talking about with adding ND to TRT. Most of us are adding 50-150mg/wk.Friends don't let friends experience endothelial dysfunction + beta adrenergic receptor overload.
Fix it Brother.
Read This Before Considering Nandrolone or Any AAS
Usually I’d just leave this info “buried” in the other thread but it’s important enough to daylight it on the main page. Nandrolone based “HRT” and nandrolone use for joint/pain relief continues to garner much discussion and attention and it’s picking up. Please care for yourself. Your long...forums.t-nation.com
Nandrolone Experiences
- Thread starter DS3
- Start date
wow. great info. thanks for posting. No easy way out is there - chronic joint pain and normal BP, or living pain-free with cardiac risk. I have some decisions to make.Friends don't let friends experience endothelial dysfunction + beta adrenergic receptor overload.
Fix it Brother.
Read This Before Considering Nandrolone or Any AAS
Usually I’d just leave this info “buried” in the other thread but it’s important enough to daylight it on the main page. Nandrolone based “HRT” and nandrolone use for joint/pain relief continues to garner much discussion and attention and it’s picking up. Please care for yourself. Your long...
not quite - the study showed a total of 10mg/kg per week done on rats. When you apply the human equivalent dosing as shown in the table below you divide the animal dose by 6.2 which equals 1.6 mg/kg. For a 220 /lb man thats only 160 mg / week not that far off from our TRT dosing.
However, there is a huge difference between animal studies and humans. Many rat studies simply do not carry over well because rats were designed to live 4 years max - whereas humans are obviously far more complex and live for decades. This was one of the reasons why the study on the PED Cardarine, which gave all rats cancer at all doses, is still used today years later in the bodybuilding and fitness community yet there has been no reported cancer to my knowledge from that - and I am on about half a dozen forums looking for that.
The info is just that - more to weigh in on the risk / reward of using androgens.
I have serious issues with joint pain that only nandrolone resolved - so maybe its time to get the BP monitor and check this daily like I did before and then make a decision.
A simple practice guide for dose conversion between animals and human
A simple practice guide for dose conversion between animals and human, Anroop B Nair, Shery Jacob
www.jbclinpharm.org
T
tareload
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Nope.
Clear explanation by @JimGainz and this thread linked in thread above.
Topical Nandrolone w/ TRT
Careful, it is not that simple: You need a conversion factor of ~6 to convert to HED: https://www.fda.gov/media/72309/download So three of the studies I posted have animal dose of 10 mg/kg/week (close to the 8 mg/kg/week mentioned in the other study but they are comparing an animal dose...
forums.t-nation.com
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T
tareload
Guest
Great job. Awesome that you have big muscle above your neck as well as all those gainz below neck Kudos!not quite - the study showed a total of 10mg/kg per week done on rats. When you apply the human equivalent dosing as shown in the table below you divide the animal dose by 6.2 which equals 1.6 mg/kg. For a 220 /lb man thats only 160 mg / week not that far off from our TRT dosing.
However, there is a huge difference between animal studies and humans. Many rat studies simply do not carry over well because rats were designed to live 4 years max - whereas humans are obviously far more complex and live for decades. This was one of the reasons why the study on the PED Cardarine, which gave all rats cancer at all doses, is still used today years later in the bodybuilding and fitness community yet there has been no reported cancer to my knowledge from that - and I am on about half a dozen forums looking for that.
The info is just that - more to weigh in on the risk / reward of using androgens.
I have serious issues with joint pain that only nandrolone resolved - so maybe its time to get the BP monitor and check this daily like I did before and then make a decision.
A simple practice guide for dose conversion between animals and human
A simple practice guide for dose conversion between animals and human, Anroop B Nair, Shery Jacob
I wish you health!!!
I must purchased a home blood pressure monitor and my BP this morning upon waking was 124/70. I took it last night after eating a Mexican dinner with lots of salsa and salty chips, and it was 129/69.
The device is considered the most accurate to +/- 3mm -OmRon Series 3.
How can my BP be completely normal and when I go to give blood both numbers jump 20-40pts? This happens most of the time - ironically my prior blood dump was very healthy but I was not taking nandrolone.
either I believe in the accuracy of the home unit and therefore have no issues with nandrolone and BP and will continue on, believe only what it says from taken manually, and would therefore have a problem and should come off, or I have major white coat syndrome.
The device is considered the most accurate to +/- 3mm -OmRon Series 3.
How can my BP be completely normal and when I go to give blood both numbers jump 20-40pts? This happens most of the time - ironically my prior blood dump was very healthy but I was not taking nandrolone.
either I believe in the accuracy of the home unit and therefore have no issues with nandrolone and BP and will continue on, believe only what it says from taken manually, and would therefore have a problem and should come off, or I have major white coat syndrome.
Happens to me all the time- like when I have a doctors appointment or donate blood. Usually focusing on my breathing for 2-3 minutes helps
T
tareload
Guest
Nice job getting the monitor and checking it a few times in even intervals throughout the day to get decent estimate of mean BP and HR (not just in the clinic where it could be elevated for the reason you mentioned).
USMC
Active Member
Cuff size is also important. EVERY time I go to the Dr., the nurse takes my BP and it is high. When I ask what size the cuff is, it's always small. When they (sometimes) fetch a larger cuff, my BP is closer to what it is at home = normal.
T
tareload
Guest
Yes get the right cuff size for home measurement. Excellent point.
Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
I get that all the time. My arms are 19" and they try to use a small cuff. I just laugh. Its just so hard to get another one that fits properly
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tareload
Guest
Extra Large Blood Pressure Cuff, ELERA 9”-20.5” Inches (22-52CM) XL Replacement Cuff for Big Arm, Compatible with Omron BP, Cuff Only https://a.co/d/jhdomx6
For all you studs or extra fatties.
For all you studs or extra fatties.
T
tareload
Guest
Always bring your BP monitor to compare against office monitor. Another check.
Guided_by_Voices
Well-Known Member
Perhaps I missed it earlier but I don't remember you mentioning what your cardio routine is. My BP seem to be a bit lower (although with wide variability) when my conditioning is better. Moderate mid-day summer sun exposure can help too. Finally, a small dose of an ARB like telmisartan sounds like a better risk/reward intervention that dropping the N if everything else looks good. Chronic pain has a lot of indirect negatives that create more chronic problems.
Deleted member 43589
Well-Known Member
I check mine frequently at home, so I pretty well don't care what the doctor gets. Lots of time they check me imediately after walking in. You absolutely need to be sitting for 5 minutes before checking BP. Also the arm need to be a heart level. Most nurses have no idea how to check blood pressure. How many times do nurses do as pictured. Most just have you lay your arm on a desk or table next to the chair they put you in.
Here is the correct proceedure for checking your blood pressure which 99% of doctors and nurses do not understand. Sometimes I am embarrased at how poorly our medical ccommunity acts. They get in a hurry because more patients mean more money and then they forget the simple things. The get mad when you remind them. Things like not putting a small cuff on a guy with 19" arms.....just because it takes more time to get one that properly fits.
Here is the correct proceedure for checking your blood pressure which 99% of doctors and nurses do not understand. Sometimes I am embarrased at how poorly our medical ccommunity acts. They get in a hurry because more patients mean more money and then they forget the simple things. The get mad when you remind them. Things like not putting a small cuff on a guy with 19" arms.....just because it takes more time to get one that properly fits.
T
tareload
Guest
All great points. Just remember the easiest person to fool is yourself. Don't rationalize out of control BP to enable continued drug abuse. I have to fight against this urge constantly in the context of anabolic therapy.
I may have stumbled upon a possible answer. I also take the active thyroid hormone T3 / Liothironine. A few months ago I began to double up on my morning and afternoon dose to reduce the number of times per day I take the med. the drug peaks in 2-3 hours. Just took my BP 3 hours after the dosing and it was 145/80. This may explain why my early morning BPs at the doctors or blood drives are lower. My last BP reading at the blood drive was the exact same time and had the same BP
T
tareload
Guest
What's your thyroid regimen?
I take 25 MCGS of Liothyronine per day split as follows :
5mcgs upon waking
10 mcgs at 10 am
10 mcgs at 4pm
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