Nandrolone (Deca) Base TRT Trial

[Gman86]

I have E2V oil, but decided to start with oral. There aren't too many domestic sources of estradiol valerate oil, and Turkish Pharm has it domestically, but you gotta buy at least $200 of stuff and the E2V is 100mg/mL, so dilution is required, which requires filtering (unless your BB is already sterile and my is not) and all that. Way too much work, but once you have it, you will have a pile of it for a very very long time. Ordering via India in small ampules seems more productive; this is what I did. Oral seemed easier to start experimenting with.

Damn, u clearly know ur stuff! Thanks for the estradiol valerate lesson! Lol

 

[camygod]

Heard e2 valerate oral converts to esterone(sp?) and have clotting risks being careful
source I know does 40mg/ml of Injectable
That parabolic33 guy is using a .33mg insulin syringe to dose his
I wouldn't be using the oral stuff long term

 

[lebroseixoife]

I came across this article from moreplatesmoredates.com, which has some great information on Deca only. Deca Only For HRT – A Comprehensive Overview And My Personal Blood Work. I thought I would share since it is relevant.

 

[Seagal]

Nah I don’t think through my labs I can conclude that. Maybe tho if I really take a deep dive into them all and compare different labs I’ve had done on different protocols. My conclusion atm is that if it does, it doesn’t do it by a significant degree. So it’s not something I really take into consideration much. I personally go more by how I feel than labs anyways

Nandrolone and stanozolol upregulate aromatase expression and further increase IGF-I-dependent effects on MCF-7 breast cancer cell proliferation

Several doping agents, such as anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) and peptide hormones like insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I), are employed without…

www.sciencedirect.com

"Specifically, both AAS were able to activate membrane rapid signaling involving IGF-I receptor, extracellular regulated protein kinases 1/2 (ERK1/2) and AKT, after binding to estrogen receptor (ER), as confirmed by the ability of the ER antagonist ICI182, 780 to block such activation. The estrogenic activity of nandrolone and stanozolol was further confirmed by their capacity to induce the expression of the ER-regulated gene, CCND1 encoding for the cell cycle regulator cyclin D1, which represents a key protein for the control of breast cancer cell proliferation."

 

[Gman86]

Nandrolone and stanozolol upregulate aromatase expression and further increase IGF-I-dependent effects on MCF-7 breast cancer cell proliferation

Several doping agents, such as anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) and peptide hormones like insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I), are employed without…

www.sciencedirect.com

"Specifically, both AAS were able to activate membrane rapid signaling involving IGF-I receptor, extracellular regulated protein kinases 1/2 (ERK1/2) and AKT, after binding to estrogen receptor (ER), as confirmed by the ability of the ER antagonist ICI182, 780 to block such activation. The estrogenic activity of nandrolone and stanozolol was further confirmed by their capacity to induce the expression of the ER-regulated gene, CCND1 encoding for the cell cycle regulator cyclin D1, which represents a key protein for the control of breast cancer cell proliferation."

Idk how they came to the conclusion that stanozolol produces estrogen. As far as i know, most dht derivatives tend to inhibit estrogen. Dht technically can’t be converted into estrogen. I do see, however, that dht derivatives can produce metabolites, such as 3β-androstanediol, that can bind to estrogen receptors, but with much lower affinity compared to natural estrogen.

But I know that primo lowers estrogen. So I would assume that it’s impossible for primo to increase estrogen at the same time that it lowers it. And I know that masteron inhibits estrogen. So much so that it was originally used to treat breast cancer in women, as far as I know. So that one is also out, as far as a dht derivative producing estrogen goes. And from what I know about stanozol, aka winstrol, it also inhibits estrogen.

But it makes sense that nandrolone would increase estrogen expression, since it’s involved in the estrogen conversion process within the male body. Not sure about females

 

[lebroseixoife]

Idk how they came to the conclusion that stanozolol produces estrogen. As far as i know, most dht derivatives tend to inhibit estrogen. Dht technically can’t be converted into estrogen. I do see, however, that dht derivatives can produce metabolites, such as 3β-androstanediol, that can bind to estrogen receptors, but with much lower affinity compared to natural estrogen.

But I know that primo lowers estrogen. So I would assume that it’s impossible for primo to increase estrogen at the same time that it lowers it. And I know that masteron inhibits estrogen. So much so that it was originally used to treat breast cancer in women, as far as I know. So that one is also out, as far as a dht derivative producing estrogen goes. And from what I know about stanozol, aka winstrol, it also inhibits estrogen.

But it makes sense that nandrolone would increase estrogen expression, since it’s involved in the estrogen conversion process within the male body. Not sure about females

Stanozolol Insights: Unique Characteristics of Anabolic-Androgenic Steroids – Part 2
Apparently it has antiprogestagenic effects by antagonizing PR (progesterone receptor).

 

[Seagal]

Idk how they came to the conclusion that stanozolol produces estrogen. As far as i know, most dht derivatives tend to inhibit estrogen. Dht technically can’t be converted into estrogen. I do see, however, that dht derivatives can produce metabolites, such as 3β-androstanediol, that can bind to estrogen receptors, but with much lower affinity compared to natural estrogen.

But I know that primo lowers estrogen. So I would assume that it’s impossible for primo to increase estrogen at the same time that it lowers it. And I know that masteron inhibits estrogen. So much so that it was originally used to treat breast cancer in women, as far as I know. So that one is also out, as far as a dht derivative producing estrogen goes. And from what I know about stanozol, aka winstrol, it also inhibits estrogen.

But it makes sense that nandrolone would increase estrogen expression, since it’s involved in the estrogen conversion process within the male body. Not sure about females

To be honest I was cherry picking.... didn't even think about Stano. The experiments in this paper were of course focused on a specific problem and in vitro (human breast cancer cell line).
Stano could have the described properties (induction of aromatase expression and specific estrogenic transduction at the ER) and act (itself or its metabolites) as substrate for the aromatase enzyme.

Who knows what all these AAS do at cells other than muscle cells!

 

[lebroseixoife]

To be honest I was cherry picking.... didn't even think about Stano. The experiments in this paper were of course focused on a specific problem and in vitro (human breast cancer cell line).

This study?
Nandrolone and stanozolol upregulate aromatase expression and further increase IGF-I-dependent effects on MCF-7 breast cancer cell proliferation

Several doping agents, such as anabolic androgenic steroids (AAS) and peptide hormones like insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I), are employed without considering the potential deleterious effects that they can cause. In addition, androgens are used in postmenopausal women as replacement therapy. However, there are no clear guidelines regarding the optimal therapeutic doses of androgens or long-term safety data. In this study we aimed to determine if two commonly used AAS, nandrolone and stanozolol, alone or in combination with IGF-I, could activate signaling involved in breast cancer cell proliferation. Using a human breast cancer cell line, MCF-7, as an experimental model we found that both nandrolone and stanozolol caused a dose-dependent induction of aromatase expression and, consequently, estradiol production. Moreover, when nandrolone and stanozolol were combined with IGF-I, higher induction in aromatase expression was observed. This increase involved phosphatidylinositol 3-kinase (PI3K)/AKT and phospholipase C (PLC)/protein kinase C (PKC), which are part of IGF-I transductional pathways. Specifically, both AAS were able to activate membrane rapid signaling involving IGF-I receptor, extracellular regulated protein kinases 1/2 (ERK1/2) and AKT, after binding to estrogen receptor (ER), as confirmed by the ability of the ER antagonist ICI182, 780 to block such activation. The estrogenic activity of nandrolone and stanozolol was further confirmed by their capacity to induce the expression of the ER-regulated gene, CCND1 encoding for the cell cycle regulator cyclin D1, which represents a key protein for the control of breast cancer cell proliferation. In fact, when nandrolone and stanozolol were combined with IGF-I, they increased cell proliferation to levels higher than those elicited by the single factors. Taken together these data clearly indicate that the use of high doses of AAS, as occurs in doping practice, may increase the risk of breast cancer. This potential risk is higher when AAS are used in association with IGF-I. To our knowledge this is the first report directly associating AAS with this type of cancer.

 

[Gman86]

To be honest I was cherry picking.... didn't even think about Stano. The experiments in this paper were of course focused on a specific problem and in vitro (human breast cancer cell line).
Stano could have the described properties (induction of aromatase expression and specific estrogenic transduction at the ER) and act (itself or its metabolites) as substrate for the aromatase enzyme.

Who knows what all these AAS do at cells other than muscle cells!

I mean maybe. I just feel like guys would experience estrogen like effects if stano actually did any of that. But from anecdotes, ur seems like it always elicits effects similar to estrogen lowering

But ur definitely correct. The human body is way more complicated than any human can imagine/ figure out fully, and we truly have no idea what any of these compounds do fully, when it comes to the cellular or even receptor level

 

[Seagal]

This study?
Nandrolone and stanozolol upregulate aromatase expression and further increase IGF-I-dependent effects on MCF-7 breast cancer cell proliferation

Jawohl

 

[lebroseixoife]

You know what doesn't make sense to me about the day of injection with NPP is that it makes me lethargic and pretty much kills erections and libido. Some 12 hours later, everything is fine. The next day of fine. But since I do injections EOD, EOD I have this issue.

 

[Seagal]

You could try using less but I guess that's not an option for you...

 

[lebroseixoife]

You could try using less but I guess that's not an option for you...

At this point, I would have to bring in test. Well, I love the benefits of nandrolone, but yes, I do not think I can hack the sides. Meh. That's why it's an experiment.

 

[WhatSayYou89]

Well you do have to give it alot longer if you want to give it a fair shot. Like months longer. That transition is tough as hell though, especially not knowing if the protocol will suit you after it's all settled.

Ive mostly read that depression on nandrolone continues to get worse over the length of the time you take it.

Would you say you’ve noticed the mental side effects to ease up the longer you've been on it?

 

[Gman86]

You know what doesn't make sense to me about the day of injection with NPP is that it makes me lethargic and pretty much kills erections and libido. Some 12 hours later, everything is fine. The next day of fine. But since I do injections EOD, EOD I have this issue.

What’s ur current protocol again? I agree with @Seagal, if I had to guess, I would guess that lowering ur deca dose would be more likely to improve ur sides than increasing it

It truly is all about dialing things in/ balancing things out. I remember when I first did a nandrolone base, with 200mg deca, and 40-60mg test, my erections were the best they’d ever been on hrt. They were literal diamonds lol. And I’ve heard this quite a few times with other guys on a nandrolone base. There seems to be something to getting to keep androgens high, while keeping estrogen and prolactin lowish, that results in amazing erections, for quite a few guys I’ve talked to using a nandrolone base

I’ve been on a nandrolone base again now for like 15 months, and erections have been pretty solid the entire time. Libido has been ok. I would like it higher when I’m not engaging in sex. But when I start to engage in sex, libido gets very high, and I get very into it.

As of like 3 days ago, I dropped my deca dose by 40mg, and replaced those 40mg of androgens with 20mg of primo enanthate, and 20mg of masteron prop. Obv it’s too soon to judge, and I’m not trying to brag, but made my girl finish 3 times in like 20 mins last night, and I was ready to keep going after she was all done. Erections were on point. Maybe slightly better than before adding the dht’s. But could have just been in my head. Again, they’ve been pretty good the entire time I’ve been back on a nandrolone base

Obv everyone is different, with how they respond to things, but just trying to give u some motivation to not give up, and to continue to try and dial urself in. It’s all about finding what works for u. And if what works for u ends up not being a nandrolone based protocol, that’s obv fine as well. All I care about is that everyone feels and functions as good as they’d like to. I couldn’t care less how they do it

 

[lebroseixoife]

What’s ur current protocol again? I agree with @Seagal, if I had to guess, I would guess that lowering ur deca dose would be more likely to improve ur sides than increasing it

It truly is all about dialing things in/ balancing things out. I remember when I first did a nandrolone base, with 200mg deca, and 40-60mg test, my erections were the best they’d ever been on hrt. They were literal diamonds lol. And I’ve heard this quite a few times with other guys on a nandrolone base. There seems to be something to getting to keep androgens high, while keeping estrogen and prolactin lowish, that results in amazing erections, for quite a few guys I’ve talked to using a nandrolone base

I’ve been on a nandrolone base again now for like 15 months, and erections have been pretty solid the entire time. Libido has been ok. I would like it higher when I’m not engaging in sex. But when I start to engage in sex, libido gets very high, and I get very into it.

As of like 3 days ago, I dropped my deca dose by 40mg, and replaced those 40mg of androgens with 20mg of primo enanthate, and 20mg of masteron prop. Obv it’s too soon to judge, and I’m not trying to brag, but made my girl finish 3 times in like 20 mins last night, and I was ready to keep going after she was all done. Erections were on point. Maybe slightly better than before adding the dht’s. But could have just been in my head. Again, they’ve been pretty good the entire time I’ve been back on a nandrolone base

Obv everyone is different, with how they respond to things, but just trying to give u some motivation to not give up, and to continue to try and dial urself in. It’s all about finding what works for u. And if what works for u ends up not being a nandrolone based protocol, that’s obv fine as well. All I care about is that everyone feels and functions as good as they’d like to. I couldn’t care less how they do it

You convinced me to just drop my NPP dose a little bit to get it more dialed in.
With your protocol changes to add in a DHT, are you still running some estradiol valerate? What exactly is your protocol these days?
Mine is test prop 15mg EOD (52mg a week), and now, 30mg of NPP EOD (105mg a week). I was at 40mg of NPP EOD, but like I said, had symptoms. This would eventually turn into a 1:2 ratio of test to nandrolone. Let's see if that works. The dick worked alright EOD, let's see if we can get it working ED.

 

[Seagal]

You convinced me to just drop my NPP dose a little bit to get it more dialed in.
With your protocol changes to add in a DHT, are you still running some estradiol valerate? What exactly is your protocol these days?
Mine is test prop 15mg EOD (52mg a week), and now, 30mg of NPP EOD (105mg a week). I was at 40mg of NPP EOD, but like I said, had symptoms. This would eventually turn into a 1:2 ratio of test to nandrolone. Let's see if that works. The dick worked alright EOD, let's see if we can get it working ED.

I'm curious what your experience was with testosterone only. What are you trying to accomplish with nandrolone base etc. What are you trying to improve? Is it just curiosity if nandrolone base would be better? I understand that it is an experiment.

 

[Gman86]

I’ve never tried exogenous estradiol before

Was on like 250 deca and 50 test prop. Now I lowered deca to 200, kept test prop at 50mg, and now using 20mg primo and 20mg masteron. Also on 500iu’s of HCG, and around 1.25mg of selegiline sublingually EOD. I’m pretty bad about taking the selegiline regularly tho

One thing to note that I forgot to mention is that since lowering my deca and adding the dht’s, I’m having very strong morning wood again. Before adding the dht’s I only got morning wood once in a blue moon. And I’m talking about actual morning wood, not just from having to pee. So I feel like this is probably a good change

 

[lebroseixoife]

I'm curious what your experience was with testosterone only. What are you trying to accomplish with nandrolone base etc. What are you trying to improve? Is it just curiosity if nandrolone base would be better? I understand that it is an experiment.

Test only did not deliver the libido, EQ, energy increases at the various different levels and protocols. I dunno why nothing worked. Levels were fine.

140mg a week every 5 days of Test Cyp. First couple days nothing really worked then it got better towards my next shot, but got never the way I wanted it.
Labs

Date	Total Test ng/dL	Free Test, pg/mL	Estradiol, LC/MS, pg/mL	SHBG nmol/L	DHT, LC/MS, ng/dL	Prolactin, ng/mL
1/20/2025	806	137.4	26	29	38	5.5

 

[lebroseixoife]

I’ve never tried exogenous estradiol before

Was on like 250 deca and 50 test prop. Now I lowered deca to 200, kept test prop at 50mg, and now using 20mg primo and 20mg masteron. Also on 500iu’s og HCG, and around 1.25mg of selegiline sublingually EOD. I’m pretty bad about taking the selegiline regularly tho

One thing to note that I forgot to mention is that since lowering my deca and adding the dht’s, I’m having very strong morning wood again. Before adding the dht’s I only got morning wood once in a blue moon. And I’m talking about actual morning wood, not just from having to pee. So I feel like this is probably a good change

Are those mg numbers, per week?