Low dose enclomiphene combined with Low dose TRT

[Guided_by_Voices]

I've had that situation and I bought empty capsules, opened the full ones and divided the powder into the others. Not ideal but easily doable. You can also just cut open the capsules and put part of the contents proportional to the dose you want in water. I do that with niacinamide capsules.

 

[Cataceous]

My enclomiphene arrived but it's in 50mg capsules. WTF? How the heck am I going to split that into a low dose?

I use a dry dilution method. It's not highly precise, but I think it's adequate. I use maltodextrin as the diluent. Corn starch would work too. In particular, I might empty the contents of 12 50 mg capsules into a tablespoon and then top it off to level with the maltodextrin. Mix thoroughly and it is ready to go. There are small measuring spoon sets that go from 1/64 tsp to 1/4 tsp by factors of two. I use the 1/16 tsp spoon to get a nominal dose of 12.5 mg.

Edit: For much greater accuracy do the dry dilution by weight. In the above example you might use a milligram scale to top off the contents of 12, 50 mg capsules to 6 grams using maltodextrin. Mix thoroughly, and then the milligram scale is used to measure doses, with measurements that are 10 times the desired dose. For example, measure 125 mg to get a 12.5 mg dose. If instead of 6 grams you topped off to 60 grams then 12.5 mg of enclomiphene would be in 1.25 grams of powder. This would be appropriate if your scale only has a precision of 10 mg.

 

[aneuman]

My enclomiphene arrived but it's in 50mg capsules. WTF? How the heck am I going to split that into a low dose?

Yep, that's going to be difficult. Did you order it or did a doctor prescribed that amount?

Base on my experience (which may differ from yours) 12.5 mg every day put me at 1180 ng/dL and LH and FSH at about 20 mIU/mL, way above the normal range. Lowering the dosage to 12.5 mg M-W-F put my total T at 677 ng/dL and LH and FH in the middle or normal range.

I think (without much evidence other than my own response to the medication) that 50mg of pure Encomiphene Citrate is a very high dose, and unless your pituitary/Hypothatalmus are totally insensitive to EC to require such high dosage, it may be counter-productive, and unknown side effects may pop up.

If you you want play Jesse or Dr. White, you can order empty capsules, a sensitive scale, and divide the content of one capsule into 4, to get to 12.5 mg, or if you're brave, into 8 to get to 6.25, but that's going to be very, very difficult.

In hind sight I think that if were to try EC again, it would be 6.25 mg every day or maybe even EOD. By the way, I think there are "clinics" that use that protocol.

good luck, and let us know what you did.

 

[Systemlord]

How the heck am I going to split that into a low dose?

A pill cutter.

 

[aneuman]

A pill cutter.

A pill cutter would be a good idea if there were pills. Capsule cutters might be a better idea but they'd create a mess and I don't think they exist.

 

[UCFguy01]

Yep, that's going to be difficult. Did you order it or did a doctor prescribed that amount?

Yes, the doctor prescribed that amount. I don't think he put much thought into it. We didn't really talk about dosages at my appointment. I just was curious to try it. I looked at everyone's dosages after the fact and saw most people take 12.5 mg.

 

[aneuman]

Yes, the doctor prescribed that amount. I don't think he put much thought into it. We didn't really talk about dosages at my appointment. I just was curious to try it. I looked at everyone's dosages after the fact and saw most people take 12.5 mg.

I didn't even know that made it at that strength. The clinical trials for Androxal (the original brand for Enclomiphene Citrate) used 6.25mg, 12.5mg and 25 mg.

On second thought, obviously, a compounding pharmacy can produced any strength needed. There's a "clinic" out there that claims to use Enclomiphene Citrate at 6.25mg daily with great success. I can't vouch for that but given my experience, it would make sense to me.

 

[Systemlord]

Yes, the doctor prescribed that amount. I don't think he put much thought into it.

Most healthcare providers these days, appointments are rushed, care now is triage in an overburdened healthcare system.

You take private healthcare, cash only care tends to be of higher quality care, because if care is substandard in any way, the business flounders, whereas insurance, based care, there’s always another patient around the corner.

 

[captain_j]

@UCFguy01 how did your experiment end up? I’m currently considering the same thing. I’ve got some 25 mg enclo on hand.

 

[Vitamin_C]

@UCFguy01 how did your experiment end up? I’m currently considering the same thing. I’ve got some 25 mg enclo on hand.

Same with me, I have 12.5mg at home because I was going to do a re-start to get my wife pregnant but she ended up getting pregnant anyways on TRT+HCG. I've been curious to see what taking 12.5mg of Clomid on top of my TRT regiment would be.

 

[Soalian]

@Cataceous you see lots of guys only taking (en)clomiphene for LH pituitary restart/stimulation, most users who show their accompanying blood work provide some levels of proof for the efficacy of clomiphene as a SERM for restarting pituitary LH signaling.

However, few seem to put forward that GnRH signaling in the pituitary is integral to LH stimulation there at that levels, now GnRH is negatively regulated at the hypothalamus by androgens,

which would mean that only using (en)clomiphene as a SERM at pituitary level, would do nothing to ramp up GnRH signaling in the hypothalamus, thereby not leading to much improvement in LH signaling at the pituitary level overall, since suppressed E2 sensing at pituitary receptor level would still leave androgens to modulate GnRH signaling at hypothalamus level ?

My hypothesis would be that by acting as a SERM, clomiphene would help somewhat for proper restart for pituitary LH signaling, but that's that is aided by the fact that GnRH signaling in hypothalamus is well-encouraged and up-and-running in such clomiphene users, since they might be deficient in serum androgens levels to begin with (so as well as serum E2 levels, probably) ?

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[Cataceous]

...
However, few seem to put forward that GnRH signaling in the pituitary is integral to LH stimulation there at that levels, now GnRH is negatively regulated at the hypothalamus by androgens, ...

GnRH is negatively regulated at the hypothalamus by androgens and estrogens. The latter are most likely stronger.

... which would mean that only using (en)clomiphene as a SERM at pituitary level, would do nothing to ramp up GnRH signaling in the hypothalamus, thereby not leading to much improvement in LH signaling at the pituitary level overall, since suppressed E2 sensing at pituitary receptor level would still leave androgens to modulate GnRH signaling at hypothalamus level ?...
...

Because estrogens are a significant source of negative feedback at the hypothalamus, (en)clomiphene is an effective stimulant of GnRH signaling. It's only under TRT that the negative feedback of long-lasting androgens commonly overrides the stimulatory capacity of SERMs.