Just starting TRT. Having a rough start with anxiety and insomnia.

[Fortunate]

6 clicks / day of 20% testosterone cream on the scrotum.
100mg of pregnenolone / day.

How long have you been on this protocol? I really liked cream for 3-4 weeks. Beyond that, I went down hill (libido improvement declined, had racy, anxious feeling).

 

[Fortunate]

Take whatever I say with a grain of salt, as I am one of those searching for the best protocol. That said, I have tried various forms of TRT at various doses. For me, the most consistent winners have been Natesto and Xyosted.

Natesto never made me anxious. It works well for mood and what I would consider the "psych" aspect of TRT. I think it works less well for libido, however. You can read more about my feelings on Natesto here.

I also really like Xyosted, which is what I am currently using. The knocks against Xyosted is that it is a very expensive version of what you can simply draw from a vial for much less money. That said, Xyosted is covered by insurance for me, so it costs me $0. The experience on Xyosted, for some reason, has been better than T cyp and T enanthate from a vial. Not sure why, but could be due to lack of alcohol preservative. I am very sensitive to additives. It doesn't take much to give me headaches. I suspect the lack of preservatives may be good for me. I have also read on the forum here that the lack of preservatives affects the pharmacokinetics, which in my case may be favorable. The auto injector also ensures a consistent experience: always the exact same dose/always the exact depth into SubQ tissue. Finally, you don't worry about sterility with this delivery system.

You will find a ton of opinions on hCG on the forum. I even polled the audience here to get some idea of what the overall hCG experience has been for others. You will see from the poll (only 19 responses) that it's about a 50-50 split on guys who use hCG and like it and guys who have tried it and have stopped. I have used it on an off for years. In the recent past, I have been experimenting with going off it, primarily to see if it reduces headache frequency for me. As you likely know, headaches are complicated and causes can be multifactorial. But, after being on hCG for years (usually 100-150IU daily), I started to suspect it lowered my headache threshold. Recently, I have gone off it for stretches for a few weeks at a time. I track headaches closely with an app. According to my data, there does seem to be a correlation.

However, being off hCG means I have committed myself to TRT long term. I have come to terms with that, as long as I have good quality of life.

I'd say tweak your protocol, using as little of everything as you can and titrate up or down as needed. But, whatever you pick, try to give it time and expect that you will likely tweak it over time. You might also seriously consider trying Natesto. According to a bunch of studies out there, it may not shut down endogenous production, assuming that's a concern.

 

[Zibernet]

How long have you been on this protocol? I really liked cream for 3-4 weeks. Beyond that, I went down hill (libido improvement declined, had racy, anxious feeling).

I've been on and off for the past 2 years because of that honey moon period that also lasted around a month.
I've now consistantly been on cream for 6 months with the same positive effects thanks to pregnenolone and DHEA.

 

[Zibernet]

Take whatever I say with a grain of salt, as I am one of those searching for the best protocol. That said, I have tried various forms of TRT at various doses. For me, the most consistent winners have been Natesto and Xyosted.

Natesto never made me anxious. It works well for mood and what I would consider the "psych" aspect of TRT. I think it works less well for libido, however. You can read more about my feelings on Natesto here.

I also really like Xyosted, which is what I am currently using. The knocks against Xyosted is that it is a very expensive version of what you can simply draw from a vial for much less money. That said, Xyosted is covered by insurance for me, so it costs me $0. The experience on Xyosted, for some reason, has been better than T cyp and T enanthate from a vial. Not sure why, but could be due to lack of alcohol preservative. I am very sensitive to additives. It doesn't take much to give me headaches. I suspect the lack of preservatives may be good for me. I have also read on the forum here that the lack of preservatives affects the pharmacokinetics, which in my case may be favorable. The auto injector also ensures a consistent experience: always the exact same dose/always the exact depth into SubQ tissue. Finally, you don't worry about sterility with this delivery system.

You will find a ton of opinions on hCG on the forum. I even polled the audience here to get some idea of what the overall hCG experience has been for others. You will see from the poll (only 19 responses) that it's about a 50-50 split on guys who use hCG and like it and guys who have tried it and have stopped. I have used it on an off for years. In the recent past, I have been experimenting with going off it, primarily to see if it reduces headache frequency for me. As you likely know, headaches are complicated and causes can be multifactorial. But, after being on hCG for years (usually 100-150IU daily), I started to suspect it lowered my headache threshold. Recently, I have gone off it for stretches for a few weeks at a time. I track headaches closely with an app. According to my data, there does seem to be a correlation.

However, being off hCG means I have committed myself to TRT long term. I have come to terms with that, as long as I have good quality of life.

I'd say tweak your protocol, using as little of everything as you can and titrate up or down as needed. But, whatever you pick, try to give it time and expect that you will likely tweak it over time. You might also seriously consider trying Natesto. According to a bunch of studies out there, it may not shut down endogenous production, assuming that's a concern.

Don't worry about fertility without HCG as long as you use pregnenolone in a ratio of 12:1 with testosterone.

Pregnenolone (P5) Fully Prevents Testicular Atrophy Due To Steroid (ab)use Or High Estrogen

I often get emails from bodybuilders, athletes and others who have used or currently use steroids and want to either protect themselves while using those steroids or want to recover after long-term usage. It is well-known that most performance enhancing steroids, including plain testosterone (T)...

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[Fortunate]

I've been on and off for the past 2 years because of that honey moon period that also lasted around a month.
I've now consistantly been on cream for 6 months with the same positive effects thanks to pregnenolone and DHEA.

I’m jealous. I felt really good on cream for about a month, then started going down hill. I may give it another try at some point. Are you doing all six clicks at once? Seems like a lot? Have you gotten levels on this?

 

[Zibernet]

I’m jealous. I felt really good on cream for about a month, then started going down hill. I may give it another try at some point. Are you doing all six clicks at once? Seems like a lot? Have you gotten levels on this?

3 clicks am + 3 clicks pm
Try it with pregnenolone.

Only time I got bloods was with my home made DMSO + testosterone base powder.
Trough 10 hours application was 2200ng/dl.
I may have overdone it.

 

[Fortunate]

3 clicks am + 3 clicks pm
Try it with pregnenolone.

Only time I got bloods was with my home made DMSO + testosterone base powder.
Trough 10 hours application was 2200ng/dl.
I may have overdone it.

What time are your PM clicks?

 

[Zibernet]

What time are your PM clicks?

Sometimes 5pm, sometimes 7pm, sometimes 10pm.
Whenever convenient.

 

[Tman]

Good to hear, about feeling shitty for 6wk or so when starting. Things shutting down and building up Im assuming. When you say 'dose is high' you're talking about my initial 140mg right?

I have been reading the studies and posts here about IM in VG or shallow IM in delt vs SC. What is your method and preference?

I'm going to go with the 50mg 2xwk as you, others and doc rec'd. THOUGH the studies posted here about the xyosted Test E SC autoinjection posits that 75mg Test E as SC inj gives similar levels as Test C IM. There was an interesting discussion on that post.

Can you clarify? Sides from HCG countering positive benefits from T?

My Initial prescribed protocol was for hcg 500iu 2x wk. Ive read post and some of the linked studies here.

What is your preferred dose to minimize sides and still have a chance to maintain fertility? 250iu 2x wk? 3x/wk?

We are all different...for me...High doses of T lead to sleep issues, rapid beat, anxiety and panic attacks (switched to dailes- not perfect but much better) ...also high estrogen levels cause anxiety for me (low dose .05 daily ai) ...it's a delicate balancing act If you find a similarity...drop the amount of T you inject at one time

 

[Zibernet]

We are all different...for me...High doses of T lead to sleep issues, rapid beat, anxiety and panic attacks (switched to dailes- not perfect but much better) ...also high estrogen levels cause anxiety for me (low dose .05 daily ai) ...it's a delicate balancing act If you find a similarity...drop the amount of T you inject at one time

Drop the AI, and read my thread about Pregnenolone making high dose testosterone tolerable.