How does the release of testosterone work after injections?

[Pacman]

I'm just curious, as I've been doing a lot of reading on the different esters of T injection formulas. I understand that the release time is dependent on the number of carbon molecules surrounding the actual testosterone (cypionate = ~10 molecules, enanthate = ~8, Prop = ~3 - with each molecule breakdown being one day or so. These are the approximations I read on the internet). So my understanding is that the body breaks down the ester surrounding the T, and only then releases the testosterone. So how do esters with longer break down times (i.e. more molecules surrounding the T) ALSO ensure that the release of T is slow and not just all at once? Is it more like E-T-E-T rather than E-E-E-T-T-T? (i.e. small amount of ester breaks down, small amount of T released, then more ester, then more T, etc OR ester molecules break down, then T gets released)

I am just really curious as to how that works. I do not have much knowledge or education in chemistry/biology, but how is it that the T doesn't get released all at once, once the body breaks down the ester? The breakdown of the ester and release of the testosterone obviously works in a different way than what I assume it does, so can someone explain it to me, or direct me to a source where I can learn the answer to my question?

 

[Robbie63]

Great guestiion. I have not read or seen it explained.

 

[Pacman]

I would love to learn how it works. I've been Googling it, but didn't have much luck on finding explanations to my question. Does someone here know the answer, or know of an online source that does?

 

[Pacman]

Does anybody know? If not, does anybody know where I could find out?? Thanks!!

 

[Vettester Chris]

The longer carbon chain just allows it to have a longer active life. I think you're looking at it as a step process, where possibly the body and metabolism process has these carbon molecule obstacles to break-through first, then the testosterone molecule is exposed and gets released (maybe I didn't read your post correctly on that?) Wherein fact the testosterone molecule is active along side the carbon molecule chain during that "breakdown" process, which in essence is the body in a state of metabolism. You could refer to both partition coefficient and distribution coefficient to get a better, more scientific explanation on this process.

Testosterone by itself and by design doesn't have a long active life, so the body will metabolize it rather quickly. For exogenous forms of testosterone, aqua suspension with no ester is active for approx. one (1) day if I remember right. As for its characteristics, test is test, and it's the same molecule as cypionate, but basically left unassisted with any carbon ester chain attachment to keep it active in the bloodstream for longer periods of time. This is where you start getting into the suspension characteristics, e.g., water, propionic acid, grape seed oil, etc.

Not sure if that can give you a better angle to view how it works or not? You're on the right track with what you've researched, but just know the carbon chain doesn't make the test molecule latent, it instead enhances the half-life/Active life that couldn't be achieved on its own molecular structure ... There might be some super astute chemistry guys or gals here that can really go deep on that (probably Nelson). Bio chemistry was one of my favorites in college, but I didn't major in it.

 

[Gene Devine]

The longer carbon chain just allows it to have a longer active life. I think you're looking at it as a step process, where possibly the body and metabolism process has these carbon molecule obstacles to break-through first, then the testosterone molecule is exposed and gets released (maybe I didn't read your post correctly on that?) Wherein fact the testosterone molecule is active along side the carbon molecule chain during that "breakdown" process, which in essence is the body in a state of metabolism. You could refer to both partition coefficient and distribution coefficient to get a better, more scientific explanation on this process.

Testosterone by itself and by design doesn't have a long active life, so the body will metabolize it rather quickly. For exogenous forms of testosterone, aqua suspension with no ester is active for approx. one (1) day if I remember right. As for its characteristics, test is test, and it's the same molecule as cypionate, but basically left unassisted with any carbon ester chain attachment to keep it active in the bloodstream for longer periods of time. This is where you start getting into the suspension characteristics, e.g., water, propionic acid, grape seed oil, etc.

Not sure if that can give you a better angle to view how it works or not? You're on the right track with what you've researched, but just know the carbon chain doesn't make the test molecule latent, it instead enhances the half-life/Active life that couldn't be achieved on its own molecular structure ... There might be some super astute chemistry guys or gals here that can really go deep on that (probably Nelson). Bio chemistry was one of my favorites in college, but I didn't major in it.

^^^^This is why Excel Male is the best destination site for all things male health!

How many "Physicians" would give you this explanation!!!

 

[Vettester Chris]

Also, keep in mind that the ester of the compound will effect the actual amount of testosterone (per mg) that you will actually receive for treatment. This is where test isn't always test, at least when comparing volume ... Whereas administering 100mg of aqua suspension will give you pretty much most of that 100mg for bio use, cypionate if not mistaken will only be around 70mg to 72mg of actual testosterone available for bio use (someone correct me if that's different, I'm sure it's close). Less weight = more test, but also equals shorter active life.

 

[Gene Devine]

Also, keep in mind that the ester of the compound will effect the actual amount of testosterone (per mg) that you will actually receive for treatment. This is where test isn't always test, at least when comparing volume ... Whereas administering 100mg of aqua suspension will give you pretty much most of that 100mg for bio use, cypionate if not mistaken will only be around 70mg to 72mg of actual testosterone available for bio use (someone correct me if that's different, I'm sure it's close). Less weight = more test, but also equals shorter active life.

This is correct.

 

[Henry]

Hi, how does this work with something like Androgel?

 

[Vettester Chris]

Hi, how does this work with something like Androgel?

Androgel can be viewed in similar fashion as testosterone suspension (aqua suspension), with no carbon ester, and having the same molecular weight. Same principal applies, where the active life (approx. 1 day) will be shorter due to the body's ability to metabolize it faster. This is why Androgel therapy is administered daily. The difference between aqua suspension and Androgel (obviously besides injection -vs- topical application) is that Androgel absorbs only "x" amount of testosterone into the body for circulation. In most cases you can figure x = 10%.

 

[HarryCat]

So how do esters with longer break down times (i.e. more molecules surrounding the T) ALSO ensure that the release of T is slow and not just all at once? Is it more like E-T-E-T rather than E-E-E-T-T-T? (i.e. small amount of ester breaks down, small amount of T released, then more ester, then more T, etc OR ester molecules break down, then T gets released)

I am just really curious as to how that works. I do not have much knowledge or education in chemistry/biology, but how is it that the T doesn't get released all at once, once the body breaks down the ester? The breakdown of the ester and release of the testosterone obviously works in a different way than what I assume it does, so can someone explain it to me, or direct me to a source where I can learn the answer to my question?

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cypionic_acid

"The ester group is slowly hydrolyzed by metabolic enzymes, releasing steady doses of the active ingredient. Examples include testosterone cypionate, hydrocortisone cypionate, and oxabolone cypionate."

 

[Henry]

Androgel can be viewed in similar fashion as testosterone suspension (aqua suspension), with no carbon ester, and having the same molecular weight. Same principal applies, where the active life (approx. 1 day) will be shorter due to the body's ability to metabolize it faster. This is why Androgel therapy is administered daily. The difference between aqua suspension and Androgel (obviously besides injection -vs- topical application) is that Androgel absorbs only "x" amount of testosterone into the body for circulation. In most cases you can figure x = 10%.

Thank you,
Henry

 

[doc]

Hello to everybody! Sterified Testosterone is not active , the ester bond has to be hydrolized for testosterone to be bound to its receptor.The longer active life of the diferent esters may be explained by the diferent degree of binding to the transport proteins in plasma.

 

[DDD]

The longer carbon chain just allows it to have a longer active life. I think you're looking at it as a step process, where possibly the body and metabolism process has these carbon molecule obstacles to break-through first, then the testosterone molecule is exposed and gets released (maybe I didn't read your post correctly on that?) Wherein fact the testosterone molecule is active along side the carbon molecule chain during that "breakdown" process, which in essence is the body in a state of metabolism. You could refer to both partition coefficient and distribution coefficient to get a better, more scientific explanation on this process.

Testosterone by itself and by design doesn't have a long active life, so the body will metabolize it rather quickly. For exogenous forms of testosterone, aqua suspension with no ester is active for approx. one (1) day if I remember right. As for its characteristics, test is test, and it's the same molecule as cypionate, but basically left unassisted with any carbon ester chain attachment to keep it active in the bloodstream for longer periods of time. This is where you start getting into the suspension characteristics, e.g., water, propionic acid, grape seed oil, etc.

Not sure if that can give you a better angle to view how it works or not? You're on the right track with what you've researched, but just know the carbon chain doesn't make the test molecule latent, it instead enhances the half-life/Active life that couldn't be achieved on its own molecular structure ... There might be some super astute chemistry guys or gals here that can really go deep on that (probably Nelson). Bio chemistry was one of my favorites in college, but I didn't major in it.

For my own knowledge, let me ask you guys something. When T cyp is injected into the body, I understand it peaks at 48-72hrs. Does it release all the T at one time, or does it spread out the release of T in more of a timed fashion? I was told that T cyp is timed to release throughout the week.

So if it peaks at 48-72 hrs and from that point decreases, how much does it typical decrease per day (that is your TT level, I know everyone is different). 50 points, 100 points per day, etc?

This is why I was started on once a week injections. The difference between day 1 and day 7 for me was never more than 400. Sometimes the level stayed almost the same which made me wonder if it's a timed release.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

This graph shows what happens to 200 mg every two weeks.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Here is what happens after 16 weeks (15 injections) when T was suppressed in young men and then they received different weekly doses of testosterone enanthate:



And here is what happened in older men:



Source: Bhasin S, Woodhouse L, Casaburi R, Singh AB, Bhasin D, Berman N, Chen X, Yarasheski KE, Magliano L, Dzekov C, Dzekov J, Bross R, Phillips J, Sinha-Hikim I, Shen R, Storer TW. Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men. Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Dec;281(6):E1172-81.

 

[Loki]

Here is what happens after 16 weeks (15 injections) when T was suppressed in young men and then they received different weekly doses of testosterone enanthate:

View attachment 1716

And here is what happened in older men:

View attachment 1717

Why is it on a dose of 125MG that TT almost a wash compared to baseline but separated so much on the free T graph? This would make me think you should always do at least 125 per week...

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Your comment is right on (at least for muscle mass in this study from Bhasin after 16 weeks). But remember that the study did not look at 100 mg per week. At least in older men, that dose would probably cause total T to be over 500 ng/dL after 16 weeks.

Responses of different doses of testosterone injections on body composition, strength, etc.