Hello, new member here. Questions about my start so far on TRT

[Vince]

For members that do every other day shots of T, does that mean one week your doing 3 shots (say for example Monday so M/W/F) and then the following week 4 shots (Sun/Tue/Thur/Sat)? Then back to 3 shots the third week? If so do you use a lower dose on the 4 times a week? Example you want to use 180mg of test total a week, so the 3x's a week gets 60mg per shot and the 4x's a week gets 45mg per shot. Both weeks total comes out the same?

So I understand, Every 3.5 days would be for example Monday 8am and then Thursday 8pm?

What do people call members that do their shots on Monday Wednesday and Friday every week? If you did do it those days week after week would you do for example Monday morning Wednesday midday and Friday evening to space them out evenly into the falling week?

I believe sometimes we just overthink things. I went on daily injections to prevent spikes of testosterone. I did feel just fine injecting every three and a half days and I thought injecting everyday would be too hard for me. I actually like injecting daily and I believe for me the benefits are worth it but it may not be necessary. I did finally get my HCT under control but maybe after being on trt for 3 years, my HCT may have stabilized on its own.

 

[WrenchHead80]

I believe sometimes we just overthink things. I went on daily injections to prevent spikes of testosterone. I did feel just fine injecting every three and a half days and I thought injecting everyday would be too hard for me. I actually like injecting daily and I believe for me the benefits are worth it but it may not be necessary. I did finally get my HCT under control but maybe after being on trt for 3 years, my HCT may have stabilized on its own.

Thanks for the reply Vince. I definitely over think things lol. Usually I keep it in check but certain things it shows more lol. I was going to stick with twice a week (Monday 8am and Thursday 8pm) but since I am a low SHBG guy and I am taking closer to 200mg a week I figured three days would be better for the long haul. Also not sure if my clinic or insurance will like me asking for a lot of blood test (personally I don't mind giving blood) so I was trying to think what protocol I'd like to be on for the long haul and start it as soon as I can before my March blood work test. Wish I was in a state where I could use the discount lab site. Then again I never bothered asking my clinic yet if they care about more frequent BW test if I wanted them. I just don't want to pay a lot of money for them.

I started this week with the plan of keeping it this way till I get my blood work done in March.

Monday 7am: Test C and HCG same time
Wednesday 3pm: Test C and HCG same time
Friday 11pm: Test C and HCG same time

I have been feeling great these last weeks on twice a week. I don't have one negative effect, just positives. So a part of me was saying I shouldn't touch anything. But I can't see how it can be made worse going to three days since the overall dosages per week are all staying in the safe ranges, their just being spread out more evenly threw the week. So hoping everything continues like this including getting great blood work results next month, so I can continue the same protocol.

I'm with you on injecting, I thought it would be a slight headache but I find it as easy as brushing my teeth. It may also help that I have a pelican case with pick n pluck foam all set up with everything down to the alcohol wipes inside. So grabbing what I need is easy. "Hardest" part is walking into the garage to get my HCG from my refrigerator lol.

 

[WrenchHead80]

I'm back. The blood work day got pushed back do to a snow storm. So I went in March 27 for the blood work. Just got results back today minus the sensitive estradiol results which we are still waiting on.

I know I said at the time I would lower my Test C amount per week more but ended up keeping it at 180mg Test C a week since I was already weeks into doing it and wanted a solid 7 weeks on the same protocol before my March blood work. I was taking 200mg a week to start but based on the warnings here from other members I lowered it to 180mg. I will say this week I lowered my weekly dose to 150mg a week, I will get to the reason why later.

The following blood work results are from the following protocol I did for 7 weeks...

Monday 7am: 60mg Test C / 330 iu's HCG
Wednesday 3pm: 60mg Test C / 330 iu's HCG
Friday 11pm: 60mg Test C / 330 iu's HCG

Now I didn't take my Monday morning Test shot before going in Tuesday for the blood work. So I'm assuming my FT and TT would have been higher. When I explained to the Doctor I am doing 3 shots a week he said next time don't miss any shots and take your Monday morning shot. I'm glad he said that cause I feel it will give me a better idea of where my numbers or normally.

Personally I'm surprised my FT and TT weren't threw the roof as I was warned on here. But again I didn't take that Monday shot so I don't know how much higher they would have been. BUT I noticed something interesting. By Tuesday night and Wednesday morning I felt better in a way, felt clearer, felt less on edge, I slept better ect. Not to say any of these were really bad like some of you have warned they could be but I did feel these things slightly. I'm assuming this was due to the miss dose on Monday I didn't take so my numbers were coming down a little more then usual. Now I doubt this was in my head because me being the dumb ass man I was thinking more is better and not wanting to lower my dose had to admit a positive change. Which backs up everything you guys have been saying all along.

What Iv'e been doing now...

Monday 7am: 50mg Test C
Tuesday 7am: 330 iu's HCG
Wednesday 3pm: 50mg Test C
Thursday 3pm: 330 iu's HCG
Friday 11pm: 50mg Test C
Saturday 11pm: 330 iu's HCG

Decided to separate the HCG and Test shot. Was doing it at the same time for no other reason then convenience but fell it would be better spaced out.

So what does everyone think of the above and my test results?
Should I be concerned about the Tyroid numbers?
I know the low LH and FSH numbers or to be expected.
Was glad and surprised to see my RBC, Hemoglobin and Hematocrit numbers staying the same as pre TRT treatment still.
Anything standing out that needs to be addressed? Please share

Also to add I work in the snow and was very congested in the lungs and sinus. Been hacking crap up the week before and week of blood work. Finally clearing out now. Not sure if that alters any numbers. Figured I'd mention it. Was not taking any prescription stuff but did take Mucinex.

Thank you for taking the time in looking at this.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I'm back. The blood work day got pushed back do to a snow storm. So I went in March 27 for the blood work. Just got results back today minus the sensitive estradiol results which we are still waiting on.

I know I said at the time I would lower my Test C amount per week more but ended up keeping it at 180mg Test C a week since I was already weeks into doing it and wanted a solid 7 weeks on the same protocol before my March blood work. I was taking 200mg a week to start but based on the warnings here from other members I lowered it to 180mg. I will say this week I lowered my weekly dose to 150mg a week, I will get to the reason why later.

The following blood work results are from the following protocol I did for 7 weeks...

Monday 7am: 60mg Test C / 330 iu's HCG
Wednesday 3pm: 60mg Test C / 330 iu's HCG
Friday 11pm: 60mg Test C / 330 iu's HCG

Now I didn't take my Monday morning Test shot before going in Tuesday for the blood work. So I'm assuming my FT and TT would have been higher. When I explained to the Doctor I am doing 3 shots a week he said next time don't miss any shots and take your Monday morning shot. I'm glad he said that cause I feel it will give me a better idea of where my numbers or normally.

Personally I'm surprised my FT and TT weren't threw the roof as I was warned on here. But again I didn't take that Monday shot so I don't know how much higher they would have been. BUT I noticed something interesting. By Tuesday night and Wednesday morning I felt better in a way, felt clearer, felt less on edge, I slept better ect. Not to say any of these were really bad like some of you have warned they could be but I did feel these things slightly. I'm assuming this was due to the miss dose on Monday I didn't take so my numbers were coming down a little more then usual. Now I doubt this was in my head because me being the dumb ass man I was thinking more is better and not wanting to lower my dose had to admit a positive change. Which backs up everything you guys have been saying all along.

What Iv'e been doing now...

Monday 7am: 50mg Test C
Tuesday 7am: 330 iu's HCG
Wednesday 3pm: 50mg Test C
Thursday 3pm: 330 iu's HCG
Friday 11pm: 50mg Test C
Saturday 11pm: 330 iu's HCG

Decided to separate the HCG and Test shot. Was doing it at the same time for no other reason then convenience but fell it would be better spaced out.

So what does everyone think of the above and my test results?
Should I be concerned about the Tyroid numbers?
I know the low LH and FSH numbers or to be expected.
Was glad and surprised to see my RBC, Hemoglobin and Hematocrit numbers staying the same as pre TRT treatment still.
Anything standing out that needs to be addressed? Please share

Also to add I work in the snow and was very congested in the lungs and sinus. Been hacking crap up the week before and week of blood work. Finally clearing out now. Not sure if that alters any numbers. Figured I'd mention it. Was not taking any prescription stuff but did take Mucinex.

Thank you for taking the time in looking at this.

Wait...are these the same results that you opened a new thread to discuss? Where do you want to collect input?

 

[WrenchHead80]

Wait...are these the same results that you opened a new thread to discuss? Where do you want to collect input?

I thought there may be members in the blood check forum that may not check out the introduction area.

Sorry if that's not allowed. If one needs to be deleted I guess the blood one would be better to delet.

 

[WrenchHead80]

FROM OTHER THREAD

Most important question: How are you feeling?

Need some Thyroid T4, obviously, but as my friend CW says how are you feeling?

I thought I felt fine on 180mg a week but as I mentioned missing that dose opened my eyes to the fact I may be better off at a lower dose. Now that I have been on 150mg a week for a week Id have to say it confirms what I thought, I still feel better on the lower dose. I'll even go one step farther to help people like my old self that had the "more is better" idea. I actually feel like I have MORE energy and strength NOW on my lower dose. Like my body on 180mg had the feeling of being stuffed and I was forcing more food into it giving me a heavy feeling. On the lower dose that heavy I'm stuffed feeling is gone.

The only complaint I do have is trying to use a AI. I go from no hard ons in the morning, less libido and night sweats to problems gone but then back and forth again as I take a AI for a week or two then have to not take it for a week or two cause I went to much I'm guessing. Can't find a happy medium.

Also I don't remember the exact time frame of the AI taking events. I know for weeks 3 4 and 5 I took no AI pills. Then I took one .50mg pill week 6 and one .50mg pill week 7 which was the week before my test. That gave me a estradiol reading of 26.5 (7.6 to 42.6) this time. Which I know isn't the best test, still waiting on the sensitive test results. The week of the blood test I had bad night sweats so I took a .5mg pill after the blood test and again one .5mg pill on Thursday which made the nights sweats go away after a few days again and hard ons came back too. But this Monday I took a .5mg pill and now this Tuesday and Wednesday hard ons are gone again, libido dropped a little but I still don't have any night sweats at least. I do have .25mg pills now. But I'm going to try and take nothing now for a few days and see how I feel. This is another BIG reason I am glad I lowered my dose to 150mg a week cause I'm hoping I will not need to use a AI pill anymore cause its driving me nuts. The dr will be contacting me after the sensitive result comes in. I'll see what he says about everything and me telling him I want to take a lower 150mg of Test C a week dose instead.

I am glad though I stuck with the 180 for 7weeks so I was able to confirm what my numbers would be at that level. I only wished I did take that shot Monday to get a more exact idea of what my body is doing at 180. But I'm assuming its safe to say it would have put me over the normal high natural level which I don't want to be in since this is a long term treatment. I know as others have said though you should go by how you feel not by the number.

What do you recommend to raise my Thyroid T4?

 

[ratbag]

Your free T3 is low as well, in range but low and with below range Ft4 you could take NDT that would boot both of them

 

[WrenchHead80]

The NDT is a prescription right? I just realized before, this website has a thyroid area so I'm going to start reading up on all of it at lunch. I did a quick google search and notice over the counter supplements. Are any worth a try? Should I look into a list of foods that would help boost those numbers and make sure I eat them everyday?

Thanks

Edit to add:

I donated blood at the end of February. Lowered my ferritin? I donated not because I had symptoms but because I was worried my hemo rbc ect numbers were going to be raised due to the 180mg protocol. I'm assuming I don't have to worry about that anymore cause the numbers stayed almost exactly the same from pre trt to 180mg a week on trt. Iv'e read on here some say the body tries to maintain a certain set level it wants. I'm assuming it does that unless you push it to hard. But since I have now lowered my week total to 150mg I should be in the clear I'm assuming. I did buy a pulse oximeter when I started trt and check it everyday. My readings have always been in a range of 96-99. So I will continue to monitor that but don't plan on donating too much now.

 

[Vettester Chris]

Wrench, based on your latest labs, you definitely have some obstacles taking place with the thyroid.
Free T4 is below reference
Free T3 is only at 12.5% of Reference range

Ideally, it would be nice to see both at the 50% to 80% of reference range, and Reverse T3 at a moderate level.

Really needing some antibody tests here. Please run both TPO and TgAb antibody assays. When thyroid hormone is that low, something could be triggering it, so let's look at hashi's/autoimmune. Also, I didn't go through everything, but do you have iron, TIBC, and ferritin? Lastly, cortisol is also suspect, but that 1x serum lab you ran doesn't do anything to tell us where your adrenals are sitting. Please check into a Saliva 4x kit, Cortisol w/DHEA correlation, and let's see the circadian profile ...

Thanks

 

[WrenchHead80]

Wrench, based on your latest labs, you definitely have some obstacles taking place with the thyroid.
Free T4 is below reference
Free T3 is only at 12.5% of Reference range

Ideally, it would be nice to see both at the 50% to 80% of reference range, and Reverse T3 at a moderate level.

Really needing some antibody tests here. Please run both TPO and TgAb antibody assays. When thyroid hormone is that low, something could be triggering it, so let's look at hashi's/autoimmune. Also, I didn't go through everything, but do you have iron, TIBC, and ferritin? Lastly, cortisol is also suspect, but that 1x serum lab you ran doesn't do anything to tell us where your adrenals are sitting. Please check into a Saliva 4x kit, Cortisol w/DHEA correlation, and let's see the circadian profile ...

Thanks

Thank you SO MUCH for getting back to me Chris. So would you say I should see a specialist in the thyroid field to do further testing like you mention?

The reason I ask is I compared these numbers to lab numbers I got from my PCP in Oct of 2017 (before I started TRT) asking to test my testosterone #'s and notice some thyroid numbers were included in the test. He was of no help with the low testosterone #'s but never mentioned anything about my thyroid numbers either. Even though they were "in Range", to me they seem to be very identical to my current lab numbers just slightly higher. Which I'm thinking why didn't he mention anything. I'm guessing I shouldn't bother with him anymore.

I'll post the OCT 2017 labs again below, so you see what I mean.

 

[Vettester Chris]

Yep, another round of those silly uptake and index thyroid tests. They are useless, and a waste of time and money. They are always "in range", and that's the way so many doctors like it, so that they don't have to indulge in a serious conversation about hypothyroidism.

Yes, you can see a specialist, you can talk to someone like Dr. Saya at Defy (or others). I've personally spoke with him, he gets it, and he knows how to go about treating it when needed.

For the record, get the following thyroid tests done: TSH, Free T4, Free T3, Reverse T3, Antibodies (TPO & TgAb). Also look into the others that I mentioned earlier, and you will get some real feedback on this site. I'm putting a dollar on the Antibodies, thinking you might have something going on with the enzymes (?)... It's all speculation, run them and we'll know. Even if there is, it's pretty common, and YES it can be treated.

 

[WrenchHead80]

Yep, another round of those silly uptake and index thyroid tests. They are useless, and a waste of time and money. They are always "in range", and that's the way so many doctors like it, so that they don't have to indulge in a serious conversation about hypothyroidism.

Yes, you can see a specialist, you can talk to someone like Dr. Saya at Defy (or others). I've personally spoke with him, he gets it, and he knows how to go about treating it when needed.

For the record, get the following thyroid tests done: TSH, Free T4, Free T3, Reverse T3, Antibodies (TPO & TgAb). Also look into the others that I mentioned earlier, and you will get some real feedback on this site. I'm putting a dollar on the Antibodies, thinking you might have something going on with the enzymes (?)... It's all speculation, run them and we'll know. Even if there is, it's pretty common, and YES it can be treated.

Not to get side tracked. But since you mentioned Defy, if I was a member of theirs would they have handled my thyroid problem? Would they do all these test you mentioned without a problem, and prescribe me what I needed?

TSH
Free T4
Free T3
Reverse T3
Antibodies (TPO & TgAb)

Iron
TIBC
Ferritin

Saliva 4x kit
Cortisol w/DHEA correlation
Circadian profile

I ask, cause I've been questioning the clinic I have been using since people on here said they were prescribing me too much Test and the protocol was all wrong. The only reason I feel better now is from taking matters into my own hands and learning from all you guys and reading a lot. Now I'm wondering if they even ran the sensitive test since I still haven't heard anything and the dr seemed to dismiss my request for it. I feel they didn't manage my test protocol right and I'd be nervous if they would provide something for my thyroid it will be too much or not enough and I'm hearing this is not something to mess around with. So if I don't use them that leads me to take a chance with a ENDO I can find in my plan. My luck hasn't been good with doctors Ive been dealing with lately. I'm assuming I will need a referral from my pcp dr to see a specialist. He's the guy that said I had no testosterone problems I'm only getting older and being tired is part of aging. I wonder if he will say no to the referral cause I don't have a thyroid problem either in his eyes. I'm worried I may get the run around with who ever I end up with.

Is Defy expensive? I spend $430 every two months for one bottle of Test C 10ml 200mg, two bottles of HCG 5000 with bac water and a bottle of 20 AI pills all shipped to my house. Blood work is threw my insurance.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

I asked for a couple of those specific tests, (ferritin and RT3), but yes, all have been done for me by Defy/Dr Saya. And yes they are prescribing Thyroid treatment. So far so good.

Defy's prices for consultations, meds labs etc are posted on their website. https://www.defymedicalstore.com They do not work on a monthly fee basis,

Are you referring to office visits/consultations as well in that $430? I think the meds you listed would be less than $250.

 

[WrenchHead80]

I asked for a couple of those specific tests, (ferritin and RT3), but yes, all have been done for me by Defy/Dr Saya. And yes they are prescribing Thyroid treatment. So far so good.

Defy's prices for consultations, meds labs etc are posted on their website. https://www.defymedicalstore.com They do not work on a monthly fee basis,

Are you referring to office visits/consultations as well in that $430? I think the meds you listed would be less than $250.

Nope. I spend $430 for just the stuff I listed. I did pay $400 to join too. I get free office visits and consultations though lol. Sounds like I don't really get it for "free" when their banging me over the head for the gear. Personally I'm only using them for the gear at this point cause I'm not getting good customer care from their local dr I've seen at the clinic or my coordinator, who both seem to lack knowing this stuff. I'm getting better advice and knowledge from this website.

If I switch to Defy will I have to get off everything and test low for them and then restart all over again? Cause I'm honestly getting really pissed with all the crap I have had to deal with so far. Now I find I have a thyroid problem from great people on here wanting to help others but the people I'm paying to be on top of this don't even mention anything. The second lab result I showed Chris here last passed right under my pcp doctor without mentioning my thyroid as a possible problem. Mind you this was when I wasn't on anything yet (was a pre trt lab) and was complaining how tired I was all the time. He mentioned nothing of my thyroid as being a cause and said my low T levels were in range and fine (maybe for a 70 year old). The first clinic that saw that lab never mentioned low thyroid and the place I'm going to now never said anything about my thyroid either. They still haven't called me to review my last lab work with them and wonder if they will even mention my thyroid NOW that we have some numbers marked as out of range low. They did say no phone call means nothing wrong, so I wonder If they think everything is fine. Getting a headache thinking about all this...

 

[Deleted member 16042]

I'm getting better advice and knowledge from this website.

Not unusual.

If I switch to Defy will I have to get off everything and test low for them and then restart all over again?

I didn't, they took me as I was.

 

[ratbag]

Wrench you are getting taken with your arrangement. First they they don't follow a proper TRT protocol and two they missed your thyroid (but don't feel bad about that part as 99% of MD's don't understand thyroid) Defy understands your well-being whereas most other MD's don't they only understand what they were taught and that leaves a lot to be desired. You do not need a referral to see Defy. Just call them and make an appointment. It can be by phone. It's very unlikely they would ask you to stop everything. If you could supply them with your previous lab results that would be helpful. They will want some new labs... but you need some anyways. Goodluck

 

[Vettester Chris]

Wrench, good advise above, and accurate! Yes, Dr. Saya works with all those labs and uses them as markers to help diagnose and treat properly. You might have to get the 4x cortisol & DHEA correlation through another channel, like ZRT or I think our site sponsor at Discount Labs has it too, but try to get one that has the DHEA saliva correlation & analysis.

 

[WrenchHead80]

Wrench, good advise above, and accurate! Yes, Dr. Saya works with all those labs and uses them as markers to help diagnose and treat properly. You might have to get the 4x cortisol & DHEA correlation through another channel, like ZRT or I think our site sponsor at Discount Labs has it too, but try to get one that has the DHEA saliva correlation & analysis.

Unfortunately I live in the state of ny, Long Island to be exact. Here we can't be trusted to do anything without supervision, permits and fees. Apparently i have just learned that includes getting blood work from the sponsors you mentioned.

I think I will be calling Defy as soon as I have time to sit down and call without distractions. I hope they have a participating doctor on the island. Personally I don't even care for face to face. If everything is done on the phone or computer that's fine. Just send me to the local lab for blood work and I'll be happy. I just can't stand paying a lot of money and not even getting the right protocol, advice or service. Now that I know I have a thyroid problem I can't take a chance with the current people messing that up too.

Will defy be cool you think with keeping me on 150mg a week of test, 1000iu's of HCG a week and two .25mg AI pills a week as long as my numbers are good? Cause I feel good like this. I don't want to switch to another clinic and go back to not enough and tanking my numbers.

Again thank you thank you thank you to everyone that is helping me out. I can't begin to tell you how much it means to me. I never thought I would be able to feel as good as I am now. I can only imagine how I will feel after getting my thyroid fixed.

 

[ratbag]

Go to Defymedical.com and read up. If you feel good and your labs support it yes they will likely leave your TRT alone but they'll likely be able to tweak it so you feel even better. Yes getting your thyroid right will improve your well-being as well. Defy is only in Tampa Fl. If you do this all by phone they will want a report of your physical condition (you should be able to get that from your Principal Care Physician) and they'll want new labs in order to Rx you what you need. You may have to go to NJ to get to a labcorp for blood labs. Google Labcorp and find the closest place to get labs. This is how it works and it works well. I'm in Canada and I do it with Defy by phone as well. They have some very wise MD's.

 

[WrenchHead80]

Thank you for all the info. I checked labcorp on goggle, there are three very close to me woohoo. There's actually a few all over Long Island. I don't see why my PCP dr would have a problem. I'm totally fine by phone only as well. I checked price difference and their is a savings switching over. Same stuff with shipping comes to $300 compared to $430. I would now have to pay for dr time though but at least I would be getting the proper advice and treatment. Cause now I have to figure things out with the help of everyone here but the dr doesn't seem to want to hear about anything I've learned here. So I don't see how I can make it work staying with them, or trying to get the right test done with him.

Update: I emailed my current clinic Friday to ask about my sensitive results and about someone contacting me about the results. I was told the lab (LabCorp) couldn't run the test. She said she couldn't get a exact reason why cause the technician that did mine wasn't in today... and they should be getting back to me about my results... still haven't heard anything. I am curious what my current clinic will say or if they will even mention my thyroid. Which I'm surprised cause I said I was having bad night sweats at the time of my appointment with their dr. I've since figured I needed the AI pills and the night sweats have gone away. My libido feels low though. I'm sure as you said Defy can fine tune the exact protocol I need.

I will call Defy Monday to try and figure things out.