Hello, new member here. Questions about my start so far on TRT

[WrenchHead80]

I will be surprised if after you are at a steady state with your T cyp and you get your first blood test back you will remain at 200/wk.
Total T, Free T, SHGB, E2 prolactin, hematocrit these are the numbers you need to be talking and finding out how much T you need to use to get these numbers optimized.

Also don't be surprized when you find out TRT is not a magic carpet ride in the gym. Exersize for gains still hurts like hell.
Best of luck to ya.

If you mean they will restrict my dose if they see a high reading, the Dr said I can be around 1000. I personally think based on now knowing I had low t my whole life and seeing now how I was traveling threw life on 3 flat tires, I will be really happy just being around 800 I'm thinking. Maybe I wont even need that much to feel great. I've never experienced having higher levels yet so my smart play it self side thinks this. My other side says take the max amount I can get and haul ass down the highway in my 30's and 40's and my governor is taking only enough before negative side effects pop up.

I agree its not just Total T. The others Free T, SHGB, E2 prolactin, hematocrit or all important.

I notice My SHGB has remained low since the start of (before any test) of 17.6 (16.5 - 55.9) and last 18.2 (16.5 - 55.9) Hoping I stay in that group of people.

The E2 I'm being told was the wrong test from a couple members here, but I don't see the two clinics I went to using the wrong test above. They both say Estradiol. I do see E2 wasn't done from my PCP. So the first two blood work test don't show it. But what clinic did the wrong E2 test??

The hematocrit I was concerned about. If you look threw all those BW test above the number didn't move much from before starting and the last two test ( 48.1 48.3 48.1 {37.5 - 51.0} ) Which to me is a positive but I didn't like how it was on the high side on every test and figured I should knock that number down now before it may start going up a little being on a real protocol now. So today I gave a pint of myself lol. My clinic gave me a RX if I need to donate every month. So next month I will see where my number is, if its still above 47 ill give every month till it's lower. If I can remain lower I will see if once every 2 to 3 months will then work. I will be keeping a eye on that number.

As far as a magic carpet ride lol. I've been busting my ass off since 2004 and not evening complaining about it cause I thought this was just part of exercising lol. Now I see and already feel better and can only imagine what I'll be able to achieve with my body that's now going to actually be working right. So I do think big gains are in my future but I clearly understand taking any amount of this stuff and just sitting on a couch will not give me those gains.

 

[WrenchHead80]

First, welcome!. This is the place to be to get the best info to decide what is best for your protocol. Let me also congratulate you on how quickly you have smelled the turd. It took me a year to figure out I wasn't on the right protocol. What you are doing now makes more sense based on your current SHGB level and maybe will try an every day or EOD protocol if you don't feel dialed in after testing. I like the others will caution you regarding the AI out the gate without getting the ultra sensitive E2 test (estradiol test for men) after testing your current protocol for 6 weeks.

Thanks, I was planning on not taking it this Thursday and didn't take it this Monday either. As long as my erections stay and I don't feel worse I will wait till the 6 week blood work before using it.

 

[WrenchHead80]

Can someone please confirm if one of the clinic blood works tested my E2 wrong?? Those would be the last three test posted. I'm basing my decisions on the fact I was reading the right E2 info, but if I'm not, I'd like to know. Thanks

 

[FeelingLost]

Can someone please confirm if one of the clinic blood works tested my E2 wrong?? Those would be the last three test posted. I'm basing my decisions on the fact I was reading the right E2 info, but if I'm not, I'd like to know. Thanks

From the ranges listed I would say you got the standard E2 test not the sensitive one. Is that what you are asking?

 

[WrenchHead80]

From the ranges listed I would say you got the standard E2 test not the sensitive one. Is that what you are asking?

For example my last test listed which is my new current clinic has Estradiol at 23.2 range is (7.6 - 42.6)

How should it look if it was sensitive? Also based off that number would my E2 be considered high, low, fine or no way of knowing? I thought non sensitive test were the ones that had much bigger ranges? Or is it because it doesn't say sensitive next to Estradiol?

Edit to add -> Reading blood work section now

Thanks

 

[madman]

Wow! Great info, thank you . I was wondering if their was a formula to figure that out. So its safe to say 90 is definitely not enough since it made my already low natural numbers worse and that was 90 for 7 weeks.

I was thinking because I'm taking HCG it will help boost those numbers and I would need less Test C. My play it safe side said 85 or 90 twice a week may be enough but my other side said its available to me so why not take it to feel even better as long as I don't have negative side effects to deal with. I do love the gym, bike riding, running and martial arts. So I am kinda pumped up to go at it full throttle finally. I realize 200 is on the high side of TRT treatment from my reading on different sites but it still sounds like within the TRT limit and still on the safe side. I've read of a few people that have been taking 200 for years and sounded totally happy with none or low side effects. I do understand this is a life time commitment and I need to be on something safe for the long trip. I wasn't planning on doing any blast (I believe you call it) i'm interested in cruising at a higher rpm lol. If this helps everyone understand my mindset here.

To jump in a 200 mg/week is senseless...................it takes time for blood levels to build and one has no idea how they will react to testosterone let alone how it will effect important blood markers!

Start low and go slow, when it comes to testosterone more is not always better and IF your hidden agenda for starting at a high dosage is gaining muscle/strength in the gym that dose will would put many in the supra-physiological range and allow one to make better gains in muscle/strength but by no means are you going to be packing on the muscle.

When using testosterone for muscle building purposes the real benefits are seen at doses of 250-500 mg/week (higher supra-physiological levels).

 

[WrenchHead80]

To jump in a 200 mg/week is senseless...................it takes time for blood levels to build and one has no idea how they will react to testosterone let alone how it will effect important blood markers!

Start low and go slow, when it comes to testosterone more is not always better and IF your hidden agenda for starting at a high dosage is gaining muscle/strength in the gym that dose will would put many in the supra-physiological range and allow one to make better gains in muscle/strength but by no means are you going to be packing on the muscle.

When using testosterone for muscle building purposes the real benefits are seen at doses of 250-500 mg/week (higher supra-physiological levels).

I'm not sure if you read that whole introduction above but I am definitely not doing this solely to pack on muscle. I don't do hidden agenda stuff. How can any of you help me if I'm not honest with you or myself. As I mentioned I was in such poor shape before starting any T that I constantly felt more over trained as the years went on. Trust me when I tell you or anyone reading this, I have always trained hard for years even after seeing others doing less getting better results then me in the gym on the bike, running etc. So I'm sure without question my system was not running right. Some how I managed to get to 210 - 215 pounds at 6' 3" . But I felt like shit constantly. Even after lowering my work load to counter any over training. But that's the thing, I was in such bad shape doing even the bare minimum left me still feeling exhausted all the time year after year. So is it that hard to believe I should be able to put on some pounds of muscle when I'm no longer going to be exhausted all the time, hence I'll be able to exercise like I want to? Or is it what you or I think "some pounds" is. I'm talking 10 to 20 pounds and I'll be happy. I don't see that as being hard. If you think I want to be today's Olympic bodybuilding big then that's a big no or "The Rock" Johnson big for example that's a no too.

The added weight is not so much what I care about as much as I do about being able to actually run 3 times a week, mountain bike ride two times a week and go to the gym 2 or 3 times a week. The added weight is just a result of me having the energy and recovery to do those things that I want to do. And yes I would like that weight cause my arms are really long. So it'll be nice to fill out a shirt better lol.

As far as what to start at I've already been on at least 120 Test C for more then 40 days easy (if you read my original post) and my test numbers weren't even up that much from my original numbers. So 150 split a week? I could of done that but as I said I don't see people on 200 complaining. So figured why not try it, if I don't like it I'll lower it a little.

 

[madman]

I'm not sure if you read that whole introduction above but I am definitely not doing this solely to pack on muscle. I don't do hidden agenda stuff. How can any of you help me if I'm not honest with you or myself. As I mentioned I was in such poor shape before starting any T that I constantly felt more over trained as the years went on. Trust me when I tell you or anyone reading this, I have always trained hard for years even after seeing others doing less getting better results then me in the gym on the bike, running etc. So I'm sure without question my system was not running right. Some how I managed to get to 210 - 215 pounds at 6' 3" . But I felt like shit constantly. Even after lowering my work load to counter any over training. But that's the thing, I was in such bad shape doing even the bare minimum left me still feeling exhausted all the time year after year. So is it that hard to believe I should be able to put on some pounds of muscle when I'm no longer going to be exhausted all the time, hence I'll be able to exercise like I want to? Or is it what you or I think "some pounds" is. I'm talking 10 to 20 pounds and I'll be happy. I don't see that as being hard. If you think I want to be today's Olympic bodybuilding big then that's a big no or "The Rock" Johnson big for example that's a no too.

The added weight is not so much what I care about as much as I do about being able to actually run 3 times a week, mountain bike ride two times a week and go to the gym 2 or 3 times a week. The added weight is just a result of me having the energy and recovery to do those things that I want to do. And yes I would like that weight cause my arms are really long. So it'll be nice to fill out a shirt better lol.

As far as what to start at I've already been on at least 120 Test C for more then 40 days easy (if you read my original post) and my test numbers weren't even up that much from my original numbers. So 150 split a week? I could of done that but as I said I don't see people on 200 complaining. So figured why not try it, if I don't like it I'll lower it a little.

You never even gave 140 mg/week (70mg every 3.5 days) a chance as you were only at that dose for 2 weeks before it was upped.

If you are basing your views off " i don't see people on 200 complaining" you need to take a step back and do some more research.

Your triglycerides and lipids are poor pre-trt and need to be improved upon.

Hope you do understand higher doses of testosterone can effect ones lipids negatively...lower hdl.

 

[WrenchHead80]

May be easier to see it like this

 

[WrenchHead80]

You never even gave 140 mg/week (70mg every 3.5 days) a chance as you were only at that dose for 2 weeks before it was upped. True. I was on 90mg for 7 weeks and that took my already low numbers and dropped them more. So I wanted to be sure to stay away from that ever again, cause I felt horrible. I'm thinking I was around the lower 100 range maybe 120? for 7 weeks from the last BW test going back 7 weeks (week 6 to 12). That bought my numbers up to FT14.6 (8.7 - 25.1) TT 367 (264 - 916). My SHBG went from before any test 17.6 to only 18.2. I think I may be a low SHBG guy right? If so don't they require more T?

Basically I've experienced what not enough T feels like and I do want to see what the max would feel like. You may very well be correct I wont need that much and I have read on here of guys that said they felt better on a lower dose then 200. On the other hand I've also read guys that said they feel good @ 70 twice a week but feel great @ 100 twice a week. I wont know for myself unless I try it.

If you are basing your views off " i don't see people on 200 complaining" you need to take a step back and do some more research.

I absolutely agree I need to do more research and learn. But if some people are on 200 a week feeling great and the blood work shows no problems then please fill me in on why they are wrong?

Your triglycerides and lipids are poor pre-trt and need to be improved upon.
My triglycerides BEFORE T were poor I agree they were 203 high. After 12 weeks of BEING on T they went down to 102 and that's when I was still feeling like crap after being tanked from the first place and I didn't fast since I thought I was only being tested for my T #'s ( my mistake, I know the deal now). But looking on line I'm hearing Your non-fasting triglyceride levels are typically higher than your fasting levels. So that number may be even better since being on T.

My lipids I agree aren't good I agree. The last 6 months my diet and exercising has suffered a lot, hence why I started TRT. I've only started feeling better the last 2 weeks (the introduction of HCG, may have a big part of that) . My appetite has greatly increased within this time also. I haven't even been in the gym since the end of November last year when they crashed my T and E2 numbers. Planning my return to gym this week coming up cause I finally feel better again. I did start running 3 times a week again two weeks ago and its been a huge improvement in stamina and recover. I use to feel like crap after one run for days. Now I feel I can go every day if I wanted to. So I do feel those numbers will not be a problem next BW, we will see. My PSA number before starting T was 2.7 my number as of last BW testing on T.... 1.1 So I'm seeing and feeling improvements already on T. My RBC hemoglobin and hematocrit were on the high side before TRT. They never moved since being on TRT. Now I donated blood after that last test, so that number should be lower and hopefully can maintain the lower number on its own. If not I will donate every 2 - 3 months. I don't see that as a problem or a problem so far caused by TRT.

Hope you do understand higher doses of testosterone can effect ones lipids negatively...lower hdl.

Yes

Thank you for taking the time to bring these things to my attention. As I mentioned above I know there is much for me to learn. I am curious though how I will respond to the higher level. To see how I feel and to see those numbers so I can see the whole picture (of being really low and really high and before any of this) and make a decision then on what my dose should be. I do realize as you said if I continue at 200 a week this will most likely put me on the upper high side.

 

[FeelingLost]

Thank you for taking the time to bring these things to my attention. As I mentioned above I know there is much for me to learn. I am curious though how I will respond to the higher level. To see how I feel and to see those numbers so I can see the whole picture (of being really low and really high and before any of this) and make a decision then on what my dose should be. I do realize as you said if I continue at 200 a week this will most likely put me on the upper high side.

Hi WrenchHead, Me to. I wondered the same and pretty much found out last week. It ain't all that great. My ED and libido is the same low. My energy lvl at the gym maybe a little higher 1 plates worth. I feel anxous and I am having insomnia I wake up at 1 am do not feel tired and can't go back to sleep. I can't have a consult until I deal with my HCT being out of range so I'm cutting my dose from .25 to .18 on my own.

My current protocol is 150/wk .25 M/W/F with 300 HCG at the same time and .125 AI EOD and I just got my bloods back with a trough TT at 1100 FT 35 E2 28.9 HCT 51.7

hth I hope you have a different experience as me. I can't wait to come back down.

 

[WrenchHead80]

Hi WrenchHead, Me to. I wondered the same and pretty much found out last week. It ain't all that great. My ED and libido is the same low. My energy lvl at the gym maybe a little higher 1 plates worth. I feel anxous and I am having insomnia I wake up at 1 am do not feel tired and can't go back to sleep. I can't have a consult until I deal with my HCT being out of range so I'm cutting my dose from .25 to .18 on my own.

My current protocol is 150/wk .25 M/W/F with 300 HCG at the same time and .125 AI EOD and I just got my bloods back with a trough TT at 1100 FT 35 E2 28.9 HCT 51.7

hth I hope you have a different experience as me. I can't wait to come back down.

WOW and that's trough! Whats your SHBG?
I was wondering how much of a difference being on HCG would have. Maybe that's all I needed to add?

So staying on were I'm at right now @ 100 M/TH and 250iu's M/W/F may have me coming back at a insane level?


So everyone here thinks around 70 twice a week with the HCG will put me on the high safe side?

 

[FeelingLost]

WOW and that's trough! Whats your SHBG?
I was wondering how much of a difference being on HCG would have. Maybe that's all I needed to add?

So staying on were I'm at right now @ 100 M/TH and 250iu's M/W/F may have me coming back at a insane level?
So everyone here thinks around 70 twice a week with the HCG will put me on the high safe side?

I posted my bloods test here SHBG 24.2
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...-Blood-Test-2018-T-followup-and-Thyriod-panel

 

[madman]

May be easier to see it like this
View attachment 4557

At least you were on the 90 mg/week for 6-7 weeks before testing to get a picture of where your blood markers fall in range and of course how you feel. Your levels were still low as per your labs.

It starts to get senseless at week 8 as you increase to 100mg/week but do not give it 6 weeks at that dose to let levels stabilize and than at week 9 you increase to 110mg/week than jump to 130mg at week 10 and 140mg at week 11 and have bloods tested again which would not even give you and accurate picture as it takes time for levels to stabilize at each new dose increase.

Week 12 and 13 you continue with 140mg/week and than at 14 jump up to 240mg/week (wow) and drop back down to 200mg/week for the following weeks 15 and 16.

Protocol is a complete mess!

Sure if 90mg/week (which is some what low) barely improved your numbers it would make sense one would have to increase dose and 100mg/week would still seem not high enough to improve your levels from what you achieved at 90mg/week dose but 120mg/week for 6 weeks would have been much more sensible as in most cases increasing dose by 10-20mg/week can make a difference.

In a matter of 6 weeks you went from 100mg/week to 240mg/week and dropped down to 200mg/week for the following 2 weeks..............huge jump.

Testosterone is a powerful hormone and there is a reason for starting low and going slow to see how ones body reacts and how that dose effects ones blood markers let alone possible side effects.

Any new protocol should be given 6-8 weeks to allow ones testosterone levels to stabilize to get an accurate picture of how one feels at that dose/improvements or lack there of in low t symptoms and how your blood markers are effected.

Jumping in at 200mg/week is on the high end and may very well push your levels above the physiological range as in supra-physiological (trough and peak) and you may be more prone to high e2/increase hematocrit/blood pressure/negative effect on lipids.

Most on trt only need 100-150mg/week to reach the upper end of the physiological range. Yes some do need higher doses depending on other underlying factors but it is not common.

I understand you want to feel better as we all do but having the mentality that more is better or higher levels are better is careless. Believe it or not many do well with levels in the 600-700 ng/dl and of course some need to be closer to the top end of the range but is basically comes down to experiencing relief/improvements in ones low t symptoms and most importantly staying healthy and keeping critical blood markers in check.

Trt is not about feeling like superman as there is no such thing. There are many who aim for just numbers and being at the top end of the range thinking that their libido/erections are going to be better and they are going to turn into a beast in the gym when in reality having higher levels does not always mean better.

 

[WrenchHead80]

At least you were on the 90 mg/week for 6-7 weeks before testing to get a picture of where your blood markers fall in range and of course how you feel. Your levels were still low as per your labs.

It starts to get senseless at week 8 as you increase to 100mg/week but do not give it 6 weeks at that dose to let levels stabilize and than at week 9 you increase to 110mg/week than jump to 130mg at week 10 and 140mg at week 11 and have bloods tested again which would not even give you and accurate picture as it takes time for levels to stabilize at each new dose increase.

That was all the old clinics doing. At the time I didn't research anything thinking the doctors knew what they were doing lol. Towards the end I felt they didn't know what they were doing so I searched out a new place. The old place did want to test me after 4 weeks but I left them by the last week. But as you said and I read, they should have waited till 6 weeks. The last BW was from the new place, they wanted to see where my numbers where.

Week 12 and 13 you continue with 140mg/week and than at 14 jump up to 240mg/week (wow) and drop back down to 200mg/week for the following weeks 15 and 16.

Protocol is a complete mess!

I see what you mean now and agree. I only did the 240 cause that was my last week with at the old place so I got the 140 shot from them. The next day my stuff came in from new place. So instead of subtracting 40 and taking 60 on Thursday, I just took the 100 shot on Thur "to jump start my new protocol" I realize now from listing to you guys I'm not a car and need to be more cautious.

Sure if 90mg/week (which is some what low) barely improved your numbers it would make sense one would have to increase dose and 100mg/week would still seem not high enough to improve your levels from what you achieved at 90mg/week dose but 120mg/week for 6 weeks would have been much more sensible as in most cases increasing dose by 10-20mg/week can make a difference.

I understand what your saying.

In a matter of 6 weeks you went from 100mg/week to 240mg/week and dropped down to 200mg/week for the following 2 weeks..............huge jump.

Testosterone is a powerful hormone and there is a reason for starting low and going slow to see how ones body reacts and how that dose effects ones blood markers let alone possible side effects. Agree

Any new protocol should be given 6-8 weeks to allow ones testosterone levels to stabilize to get an accurate picture of how one feels at that dose/improvements or lack there of in low t symptoms and how your blood markers are effected. Agree

Jumping in at 200mg/week is on the high end and may very well push your levels above the physiological range as in supra-physiological (trough and peak) and you may be more prone to high e2/increase hematocrit/blood pressure/negative effect on lipids. I understand

Most on trt only need 100-150mg/week to reach the upper end of the physiological range. Yes some do need higher doses depending on other underlying factors but it is not common. I understand

I understand you want to feel better as we all do but having the mentality that more is better or higher levels are better is careless. Believe it or not many do well with levels in the 600-700 ng/dl and of course some need to be closer to the top end of the range but is basically comes down to experiencing relief/improvements in ones low t symptoms and most importantly staying healthy and keeping critical blood markers in check. I see what you mean.

Trt is not about feeling like superman as there is no such thing. There are many who aim for just numbers and being at the top end of the range thinking that their libido/erections are going to be better and they are going to turn into a beast in the gym when in reality having higher levels does not always mean better. I see what you mean

Thanks again for taking your time explaining all this to me.

For added info. Last night thinking about all this, and members saying I'm taking too much I started worrying my E2 may be climbing. I'm confused how everyone said don't touch a AI in till I get tested, but If I'm on whats considered such a high dose why shouldn't I take at least one a week? So I took one .5mg AI capsule to see how I would respond. I had stronger hard on's during the night and this morning. I feel better overall so far today. I'm guessing this is a sign that I must be taking more then what the average member takes here if I needed the AI?

I'm also more confused about the estradiol sensitive or estradiol testing. Reading conflicting stuff. One hand I hear the sensitive is useful for reading accurate lower numbers where the regular one wont pick up the lower numbers right. I also read the non sensitive one may show your too high when your not but the sensitive one would show you were fine, so you shouldn't pop a AI pill and tank your E2. So I think okay but then I read people that also had both done say the results show the opposite for them.

I also thought having low SHBG was better, but now I'm reading how its more of a pain? As Ive mentioned I was 17.6 before starting and last test on T was 18.2 So guessing I'm a low guy? Why is that bad or good?

So the HCG m/w/f @ 250iu's is fine? Leave as is bump it to 330 m/t/f or 250 4 times a week?

Should I lower the T next week or finish the 6 weeks at my current 100 twice a week to know what it shows on BW for future reference? Starting to think it will come back really high which isn't what I wanted. Or should I go to the 70 twice a week or can I do at least 80? I guess if i do lower it then my 6 week appointment wont truly show my numbers then for the new dose right? Ill have to go again after 6 weeks starting next week right?

 

[madman]

Thanks again for taking your time explaining all this to me.

For added info. Last night thinking about all this, and members saying I'm taking too much I started worrying my E2 may be climbing. I'm confused how everyone said don't touch a AI in till I get tested, but If I'm on whats considered such a high dose why shouldn't I take at least one a week? So I took one .5mg AI capsule to see how I would respond. I had stronger hard on's during the night and this morning. I feel better overall so far today. I'm guessing this is a sign that I must be taking more then what the average member takes here if I needed the AI?

I'm also more confused about the estradiol sensitive or estradiol testing. Reading conflicting stuff. One hand I hear the sensitive is useful for reading accurate lower numbers where the regular one wont pick up the lower numbers right. I also read the non sensitive one may show your too high when your not but the sensitive one would show you were fine, so you shouldn't pop a AI pill and tank your E2. So I think okay but then I read people that also had both done say the results show the opposite for them.

I also thought having low SHBG was better, but now I'm reading how its more of a pain? As Ive mentioned I was 17.6 before starting and last test on T was 18.2 So guessing I'm a low guy? Why is that bad or good?

So the HCG m/w/f @ 250iu's is fine? Leave as is bump it to 330 m/t/f or 250 4 times a week?

Should I lower the T next week or finish the 6 weeks at my current 100 twice a week to know what it shows on BW for future reference? Starting to think it will come back really high which isn't what I wanted. Or should I go to the 70 twice a week or can I do at least 80? I guess if i do lower it then my 6 week appointment wont truly show my numbers then for the new dose right? Ill have to go again after 6 weeks starting next week right?

As I stated it is more sensible to start low and wait 6 weeks before having blood work done to see how all of your blood markers are effected by that specific dose and of course gauging how you feel overall throughout the 6 weeks regarding if you notice any improvements or lack there of in your energy/libido/erections/mood/drive.

Avoiding the use of an aromatase inhibitor is much more sensible when starting a trt protocol to see how that specific dose of testosterone truly effects your total t/free t/estradiol(sensitive assay)/dht/shbg as only than will you know if you need to add an aromatase inhibitor to your protocol.

It is much better to see how your respond to a lower dose of testosterone than you can truly gauge whether you need to increase your test dose to improve your levels or add the (a.i.) if your were experiencing high e2 symptoms and your estradiol(sensitive assay) came back high.

Some never need to add the (a.i.) and if you use one from the get go regardless of dose you may very well crash your estradiol which will bring along a whole host of
other negative issues.

If you had high e2 symptoms pre-trt and labs to confirm elevated e2(sensitive assay) than of course it would make sense to start out on the (a.i.).

The estradiol sensitive is meant for men and is far more accurate as oppose to the standard which is meant for women and tends to blurr the true estradiol reading in men. I as many others on here would prefer the accuracy of such a critical hormone to ones protocol. Sure the standard assay may give one an idea but it is a guessing game that I would not prefer to rely on especially when contemplating adding in the (a.i.).

I would not say low shbg is worse it just needs to be manged differently mainly with ones injection frequency as a minimum of injecting 3.5 days would be needed and even than most do better with lower doses of testosterone injected M/W/F or EOD or even daily which many low shbg guys benefit from.

Shbg is a protein produced by the liver which binds tightly to the hormones testosterone/dht/estradiol and is responsible for transporting these hormones in the blood. it also has a buffering effect on overall testosterone levels and helps prevent hepatic(liver) clearance of testosterone.

When one has low shbg testosterone is burned through/excreted quicker so it tends not to stay around too long so injecting more frequently is a way too counteract this. Also having low shbg one will have a higher free testosterone as more is in the free (active) state along with higher estradiol as well.

I would leave the hcg dose as is until you stay on a specific dose for 6 weeks than decide if you need to increase dose.

Seeing as you are low shbg injecting every 3.5 days is a good protocol for now and after 6 weeks at a specific testosterone dose and having blood work done you can assess whether you need to increase injection frequency (spread out weekly testosterone dose).

I definitely think if anything 120 mg/week (60mg every 3.5 days or 140mg/week (70mg every 3.5 days) would be a good starting trt dose and give it 6 weeks at that dose with only hcg use and no (a.i.). Worst case scenario you may start to notice increased e2 sides but 6 weeks of dealing with that is not the end of the world unless they really needed to be addressed right away due to severity.

 

[WrenchHead80]

As I stated it is more sensible to start low and wait 6 weeks before having blood work done to see how all of your blood markers are effected by that specific dose and of course gauging how you feel overall throughout the 6 weeks regarding if you notice any improvements or lack there of in your energy/libido/erections/mood/drive. I've seen the light and agree with what your saying. Thinking about all this I was in a rush to make up for the first place wasting over 10 weeks of my time and charging me $55 a visit. I did have to step back and realize this is not something were more is better or using more to make up for time already spent.

Avoiding the use of an aromatase inhibitor is much more sensible when starting a trt protocol to see how that specific dose of testosterone truly effects your total t/free t/estradiol(sensitive assay)/dht/shbg as only than will you know if you need to add an aromatase inhibitor to your protocol. Agree, I have read a few horror stories. I knew to respect the hell out of it or it could ruin you but think there is still that chance using it when it wasn't needed and paying the price. I will say when the first place messed up my first 7 weeks on 90 and the blood work showed my E2 <5 , I didn't feel as horrible as I heard others have. So I assume they must have completely wiped out everything and then some.

It is much better to see how your respond to a lower dose of testosterone than you can truly gauge whether you need to increase your test dose to improve your levels or add the (a.i.) if your were experiencing high e2 symptoms and your estradiol(sensitive assay) came back high. Agree

Some never need to add the (a.i.) and if you use one from the get go regardless of dose you may very well crash your estradiol which will bring along a whole host of
other negative issues. Agree

If you had high e2 symptoms pre-trt and labs to confirm elevated e2(sensitive assay) than of course it would make sense to start out on the (a.i.). Agree, I don't think i did, but that was a non sensitive test done as members mentioned. I was looking threw the blood forum and it looks like it does say estradiol sensitive which none of mine did.

I did take that .5mg AI on Saturday its been a few days to judge and I can say it didn't make me worse but better right after. So I think its safe to say it was climbing which backs up what your saying about me taking to high of a dose to start.

The estradiol sensitive is meant for men and is far more accurate as oppose to the standard which is meant for women and tends to blurr the true estradiol reading in men. I as many others on here would prefer the accuracy of such a critical hormone to ones protocol. Sure the standard assay may give one an idea but it is a guessing game that I would not prefer to rely on especially when contemplating adding in the (a.i.). Agree, do you feel I should ask for the regular and sensitive for a even better view?

I would not say low shbg is worse it just needs to be manged differently mainly with ones injection frequency as a minimum of injecting 3.5 days would be needed and even than most do better with lower doses of testosterone injected M/W/F or EOD or even daily which many low shbg guys benefit from.

Shbg is a protein produced by the liver which binds tightly to the hormones testosterone/dht/estradiol and is responsible for transporting these hormones in the blood. it also has a buffering effect on overall testosterone levels and helps prevent hepatic(liver) clearance of testosterone.

When one has low shbg testosterone is burned through/excreted quicker so it tends not to stay around too long so injecting more frequently is a way too counteract this. Also having low shbg one will have a higher free testosterone as more is in the free (active) state along with higher estradiol as well. Thanks, now I understand it with the way you wrote it. It has benefits but requires different managing.

I would leave the hcg dose as is until you stay on a specific dose for 6 weeks than decide if you need to increase dose. This you may not know cause of the loooong intro and I didn't really go into my balls lol. But I did raise it today to 300 still on M/W/F and I'll tell you why. The first place never gave me HCG just the T shot. I was there for 14 weeks like that. So my balls did shrink up noticeably, not that I personally cared about them being smaller, just stating their was real proof of them shutting down. My wife even noticed. I was almost shooting nothing when I came, let alone how crappy I felt and brain fog like crazy. When I started HCG by the second day I felt a positive difference and that was before my first new T shot. I don't think it was my imagination. Anyways I've been reading up on people who have been shut down and what effective dose to use to turn them back on and 300 was still on the conservative side of the numbers I saw. I still don't want to take too much cause I have read their are no signs of improvement from taking doses larger then your effective dose. My script is good for 330iu's 3 times a week.

Seeing as you are low shbg injecting every 3.5 days is a good protocol for now and after 6 weeks at a specific testosterone dose and having blood work done you can assess whether you need to increase injection frequency (spread out weekly testosterone dose). Stupid question, If im doing it every monday morning and thursday night, would that be considered every 3.5 days? Cause tecnically isnt it 84hrs so it would fall on different days of the week?

I definitely think if anything 120 mg/week (60mg every 3.5 days or 140mg/week (70mg every 3.5 days) would be a good starting trt dose and give it 6 weeks at that dose with only hcg use and no (a.i.). Worst case scenario you may start to notice increased e2 sides but 6 weeks of dealing with that is not the end of the world unless they really needed to be addressed right away due to severity. I decided with everything you and others have said I should start on a lower dose, so today I did 80 instead and will do that till I get tested again. I'll look at those results as my "safer higher" number results. Would have done 70 but they are 3ml syringes and only have lines in the 20's

Thanks again for the reply

 

[WrenchHead80]

I was running out of time to mention this in my last post but I found something very interesting maybe some members here haven't seen that may help. Its called steroidcalc. It can be found here steroidcalc.com

It shows what MadMan has been saying but with a graph. Really interesting playing around with different levels or using the same level but changing frequency of use. steroidcalc.com/about.html explains the math behind it and half life's as members here have been mentioning. You can run two things at once to see how they overlap, I wish they had HCG listed, didn't see it.

I figured I'd cheat and use Testosterone Propionate: 0.8 days since its close to 23hrs (hcg's half life is around 23 right?) but it only shows mg and not iu's as amount so I don't know how or even if you can find a way around it that will show a correct graph.

 

[WrenchHead80]

For members that do every other day shots of T, does that mean one week your doing 3 shots (say for example Monday so M/W/F) and then the following week 4 shots (Sun/Tue/Thur/Sat)? Then back to 3 shots the third week? If so do you use a lower dose on the 4 times a week? Example you want to use 180mg of test total a week, so the 3x's a week gets 60mg per shot and the 4x's a week gets 45mg per shot. Both weeks total comes out the same?

So I understand, Every 3.5 days would be for example Monday 8am and then Thursday 8pm?

What do people call members that do their shots on Monday Wednesday and Friday every week? If you did do it those days week after week would you do for example Monday morning Wednesday midday and Friday evening to space them out evenly into the falling week?

 

[WrenchHead80]

For anyone that's still reading this thread. If you haven't read this, you should. Explained half-lives in more detail.

https://www.excelmale.com/forum/sho...-of-medications-Most-underrated-aspect-of-TRT