Gene's Nitric Oxide Stack

[Gene Devine]

Defy Medical has a Tri-Amino injectable made up of Tri-Amino -Citrulline+Arginine+Ornithine (100mg/100mg/100mg) 100mL. I inject 1 ml each night before bed along with 300 mcg of Sermorelin to increase endogenous Growth Hormone.

I have used 2 ml before a training session and holy shit the pump was sick!

Here's a link to Defy's injectable nutrients. The vial of the Tri-Amino is huge 100 ml and lasts 3 plus months with daily injections.

Just call and ask for Jasen Bruce if you are interested.

http://defymedical.com/services/21-nutrient-injection-kits

 

[Gene Devine]

Thanks I will go there today. beats the taste of the powder no matter what you put it in it changes the taste.

These pills are somewhat big so take them with a glass of milk (or better chocolate milk) as it makes them go down much easier and it buffers the amino to some extent as well.

 

[bean5er]

dumb question but all I can find is 20 mg tabs of tadalafil. would i be ok splitting them in half and taking 10 mg a day?

 

[Gene Devine]

dumb question but all I can find is 20 mg tabs of tadalafil. would i be ok splitting them in half and taking 10 mg a day?

Of course.

 

[Markee]

Gene

Whats brand where do you get the 150 mg of Icariin Horny Goat Weed at ?

 

[ThomasW]

Gene this is off the beated track a bit, my test score is high but my estrogen is high also.
What effect does this have.

How can I sort it?

 

[SoCalSurfer]

Thanks Gene but I do not drink milk. Yuck.... I will take with Rice drink or Coconut milk and see how that goes.

 

[Cooper]

Gene - Do you use Anastrozole? Curious because I have heard that Cialis can serve as a Estrogen blocker.

 

[Gene Devine]

Gene - Do you use Anastrozole? Curious because I have heard that Cialis can serve as a Estrogen blocker.

I don't need an AI and I never heard of a PDE5i having anti aromatase properties.

 

[CoastWatcher]

There may be a connection with Cialis and estrogen inhibition.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16839328


Testosterone:estradiol ratio changes associated with long-term tadalafil administration: a pilot study.


CONCLUSIONS:

Sustained improvement in sexual function after 12 months of tadalafil administration is associated with increased T:E ratio mainly related to reduction of E levels. We hypothesize that androgen-estrogen cross-talk and possible inhibition of aromatase activity during chronic exposure to tadalafil might have a role in the regulation of erectile function.

 

[ThomasW]

I have just got PES Erase Pro to reduce my Estrogen levels.
Anyone ant comments on this product or better versions.

 

[The Dude]

Sorry if this has been covered already, I did a search and couldn't find anything.

Has anyone tried a timed release L-Arginine supplement? I don't have the daily cialis yet, and I find that the effect of the standard L-Arginine only lasts about an hour.

This turns out to be true - it is the Citrulline that lasts longer. Examine.com says:

While Arginine still appears to outperform citrulline in regards to causing a peak increase in plasma arginine concentrations, it appears that Citrulline is more effective at increasing overall bodily exposure to arginine (assessed via the area under curve or AUC)

For this reason, supplemental L-arginine may be useful for instances where only an acute increase in required (trying to increase a sleep-induced growth hormone pulse or before exercise) yet if higher serum arginine levels are wanted throughout the day (erectile dysfunction or cardiovascular health) citrulline would be preferrable

I have ordered a Sustained Release Arginine tablet, and will report back on whether it is worthwhile.

 

[The Dude]

So, some cool personal experience that validates the basic idea of this stack.

I'm in my late 50's, and about ten years ago was the first time that I had any erectile problem, and back then, I got some Generic Tadafil (Megalis by McLeod India) but at that time did not care for it, and put the rest in a drawer.

10 years later, and over the years I've had better and worse evenings Generally I had some success with Korean Red Ginseng (which probably does nothing for pumps, but helps ED).

A month or so ago, I had an evening where the pecker would simply not work at all. Even worse, in the morning, no wood (I have always had pretty consistent morning wood). So I remembered the Tadalafil in the drawer, and tried 10mg (half a dose). Immediately, i had no problems getting erections - just a cute chick appearing in a commercial on TV would be enough. But significant headaches. 5mg still worked, less headaches but still some. Eventually I discovered the idea of small daily doses which work fine but have no side effects.

So, what seemed clear, was that for me - unlike many guys with clogged arteries and high blood pressure - my main problem is too much PDE5, because it seems clear from my one day with no wood, and then immediate wood with PDE5 inhibitition, that I've been doing fine in creating nitric oxide. And, I tried all sorts of combinations for weeks, of citrulline, garlic, beet powder, pomegranate, pycnogenol - all the NO stuff - and it had never made any difference.

Then, a couple of days ago, on a lark, I tried increasing my daily bedtime tadalafil to 5mg. I had some headaches the next morning, but things seemed fine. Then that night, it took quite a long time to get an erection - never a problem since starting tadalafil. And, I'm still not sure about the cause. But I knew that obviously, PDE5 was being inhibited.

I took 5mg again, and next morning no headaches (possibly you just adjust ?), but in testing things out , again it took longer. On a hunch, I put 3grams of Citrulline, and a half teaspoon of Beet Powder in my mouth (apparently the mouth is the NO generator that does not get weaker with age, which is why some NO supplements are lozenges).

In a half hour, I suddenly had the immediate and strong erection that I would have expected from upping my tadalafil dose. A very clear result that showed that sometimes, my NO production does weaken.

So, this shows that combining both NO producing supplements (arginine, citrulline, beets) with tadalafil should "cover all bases". It's just my personal experience, but I am now sold on the "stack".

 

[Gene Devine]

So, this shows that combining both NO producing supplements (arginine, citrulline, beets) with tadalafil should "cover all bases". It's just my personal experience, but I am now sold on the "stack".

That's the point of the stack ---> decrease PDE5 and increase NO...all at the same time with lower multi doses throughout the day and evening to keep serum levels at peak making erections and hard pumps constent.

 

[The Dude]

So, one part of the stack that bears some attention is the Horny Goat Weed. You mentioned using the Vitamin Shoppe product which contains per capsule

Horny Goat Weed 250mg (which has 25mg Icariin)
Maca 125mg
Mucuna Pruriens 16.5mg
Polypodium Vulgare 12.5mg

I agree generally with the idea of synergy, but Icariin basically inhibits PDE5 and Tadalafil does that so well that I am not sure Icariin does anything more. I tried taking four 1000mg HGW tablets = 400mg Icariin (which is equal to 16 of the Vitamin Shoppe HGWs), on top of my usual Tadalafil and I could not tell any difference.

Maca and the other ingredients in the Vitamin Shoppe HGW seem designed to make it a well-rounded male supplement, with libido support, and if you find a difference from adding that product, then maybe it is the Maca and the other ingredients.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Here is a thread on the subject of erection supplements from my buddy Lee Meyers


Erection Pills- Do They Work?

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/hdr_Nitric_Oxide.aspx

 

[The Dude]

Here is a thread on the subject of erection supplements from my buddy Lee Meyers


Erection Pills- Do They Work?

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/hdr_Nitric_Oxide.aspx

That's a good site for getting ideas for things to try.

Unfortunately, there isn't a lot of careful science going on there - for example, the site is one of the last bastion's of the discredited "low fat" myth. (Which is odd, considering that the Body Building community was the first to widely disseminate information about the role of insulin in body composition.)

Two good supplement science sites are:

http://examine.com/supplements/

which is frequently cited by Gene, and also:

http://raysahelian.com/

who has a lot of info on sex-related supplements.

 

[The Dude]

So my previous tadalafil were "Megalis" by McLeods India, and these ones that Secure provides are "Tadacip" by Cipla.

One difference is that the Megalis were round and so, with a pill splitter, you could split them into halves, and then quarters, and then even eighths.

But the Tadacip are not round, and so are difficult to even split evenly in half, let alone quarters (or eighths!) and since they are not round, you cannot tell the size by eye.

So, on Amazon, I found a cool milligram scale, and it arrived today (Merry Xmas to me from me), and it works as well as the reviews indicate:

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ESHDGOI/

This now allows me to know how much tadalafil is in these weird pieces . On my scale, one 20mg tadacip is 0.3475 grams in weight, so a calculator allows me to figure out how much is in any piece.

(I found this idea from guys in other Forums who were splitting meds for various health issues.)

Oh and pill splitters are famous for all being mediocre, but this one is not too bad:

www.amazon.com/Ezy-cut-Tablet-Cutter-Generation-Splitting/dp/B004W2DW1G/

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Hey dude

Don't different Cialis pills have different amount of binders? How do you account for that? By the way, I really enjoy your posts.

 

[The Dude]

Hey dude

Don't different Cialis pills have different amount of binders? How do you account for that? By the way, I really enjoy your posts.

Yes they do.

But you know how much tadalafil is in one pill - 20mg.

So, if you want 5mg, that's a quarter of that.

Whatever 20mg pill you have, you weigh one. Mine are about 0.348 grams.

Then for a quarter, divide by 4 - with a calculator (most PCs have one in "Accessories" or you can even do a calculation by typing it in Google.com).

In my case, that is 0.087 grams for a quarter of a pill (5gm of tadalafil). So, if I split the weird shaped pills and the pieces are 0.12 and 0.05 grams, I know they are way too big and too small. What I am probably going to do is crush those and weigh out 0.087 gram amounts of the crushed pills on the scale.

The scale (linked in the previous post) actually weights that finely - it is made for stuff like gems where tiny fractions of weight can make a difference.

So, the first step is always to weigh one whole pill, then you know how much 20mg weighs.