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tareload
Guest
Yes I have made a faustian bargain not doubt for my hobby. The lexapro destroyed my professional motivation and limited effects downstairs. Great for panic which was consuming me.
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tareload
Guest
Keep training and jacking up the Hct and it will come if your BF is low. When I go in for blood draw they laugh. So that is at least one plus.
It is never enough though. I should never have started down the TRT road. Haha.
Wonder if anyone ever died from paper cut?
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aneuman
Active Member
My early experience leads me to agree with that. I'm feeling that my sympathetic system is permanently activated. I recently switched from 3 x 30 mg a week to 50mg x 2 to see if that variations allows for some resting time.
Unfortunately, at 60 I don't think I would be able to build that much muscle.
What is controversial, the use of clonazepam, or that clonazepam works wonders for sleep? Without it I stay eyes wide open all night. I do try to take it intermittently, once I have slept well for a few days, I skip it. I also lowered it from 1 mg to 0,5 mg. I don't think it has affected my memory or anything....what's this forum about though? ;-)
I know... been there, done hat. Wellbutrin to get me up the couch, clonazepam to calm the highs of Wellbutrin, Mirtazapine to compensate insomnia at night, statins to lower cholesterol caused by excess carbs caused by mirtazapine, coq10 to compensate for the loss caused by the statins....
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tareload
Guest
Yeah just the potential for addiction in those so prone. So I am with you ....I use it very sporadically to run experiments. Glad it works well for you.
Man you got a beautiful mind. ExcelMale is so fortunate to have smart people like you on here!
I look forward to seeing your latest labs. I tested negative for Jak2 but am heterozygous carrier for hemochromatosis. So out of the gate I am screwed using injectable testosterone for any kind of muscle building.
For running it was about 55/56 and is now around 52, although my 5km is about the same put performance drops off after that. My last marathon time (at the end of the IM) was about half hour longer (4 to 4.5 hours)
I'm carrying about an extra 14-16 pounds than back then so possibly that is it. Training up to about 2 hours, there probably isn't much difference but beyond that it becomes harder and think that could be due to the extra weight and my cardio system having to do more work to carry the extra weight.
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tareload
Guest
That is a huge amount of added weight. Kudos on keeping same 5km time
When I used to run Memorial Day Murphy I had to drop a lot of weight otherwise it was brutal. It appears you are using Vo2max version of ml/min/kg. So depending on your weight your explanation above could be it. Your cardiopulmonary oxygen transfer performance could be exactly the same (ml/min) but if you add weight your Vo2Max drops. Also your point about the power required for you at the same pace with a 15 lb weight difference.
Bigger guys take a huge penalty on vo2max.
Decent overview of all the variables.
VO2 Max and Body Weight
Following our recent video on muscle fibre myths, akarot asked “I am curious, does fat guy tend to have higher vo2max, because their body…
medium.com
Successful distance runners....light lean people as you know.
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Idk man, my androgens are very high rn, to put it lightly, and i still sleep very well. I don’t really hear many guys blasting test complain about sleep either. Tren, now that’s a different story as far as sleep goes.
and u may be doing all the things I mentioned, but I bet ur also ingesting things that mess with ur body. What we ingest that messes with us is sometimes a bigger factor than the things we’re ingesting that are good for us. Hence why many people can feel great on a vegan/ vegetarian diet. It’s because they’re cutting out the big players as far as what messes with the body
I think modern trainer developments are the main reason for me keeping my 5km time! I think I just need to face that im a fatty and need to lose that weight again somehow.
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tareload
Guest
With my extremely brutally regimented eating plans the only variables are training and drugs. The only thing that changes my sleep as per tracked sleep score is androgen load.
What would I be putting in my body that you are concerned about. On my SSRI regimen I could drop to 80 mg/week Test and sleep great. 160 mg/wk and no go.
Morning...coffee, whey protein, almond butter
Mid morning....omelettes with a little cheese and 2 cans of salmon
Lunch: sardines and brussel sprouts or London broil
Mid afternoon: tuna or more sardines. Broccoli.
Snack...almonds with sardines
Evening: more meat and veggies.
What would you take out? Problematic foods? I don't usually ask for help on here but all ears as you challenge me to turn over a new leaf haha!
Thanks!
Gory details a few months back:
Post in thread 'Increasing your muscle mass during a rigorous weight loss diet?' Increasing your muscle mass during a rigorous weight loss diet?
A little more lactose free dairy back then.
I am also old and probably not a real @RobRoy type of Man's Man. LoL.
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If ur diet and everything ur doing was the same, and the only variable u changed when sleep became an issue was increasing ur test dose, it’s probably safe to say that ur sleep disruption is due to the test increase. Obv everyone is different, and just because I can be on a lot double the androgens as u when ur sleep was disrupted, and have no issues, doesn’t mean everyone can tolerate moderate to high androgen levels without having issues. So simply having more androgens in ur system could be what’s causing ur sleep issue.
Or it could have something to do with 160mg using up more micronutrients, and leaving u with micronutrient levels that are low enough to be causing u issues with ur sleep.
Or it could have something to do with having more of the hormones in ur system that test converts into. Doesn’t sound like u were doing anything to mitigate dht, E2 and/ or prolactin levels. These things can cause side effects when they’re too high for that specific individual. It’s possible the higher testosterone dose was increasing another hormone/ hormones that could be messing with ur sleep, and it might not be due to simply having more androgens in ur system. Having a high level of androgens actually makes me more chill and laid back, and less stressed by everyday life things. Obv others may be different. Js that increased androgens doesn’t always mean the person is gonna feel more ramped up/ aggressive/ energized or anything
I personally like to control the hormones that test converts into, when running higher androgen levels. I don’t like to just let testosterones metabolites run wild and land whenever they’re gonna land. I control E2 with primobolan. And since E2 is the main stimulator of prolactin production within the male body, by controlling E2 with primo, I’m also controlling prolactin. And I like to control DHT by using nandrolone. Nandrolone converts into DHN, which can compete with DHT, and lessen the effects of whatever DHT u have in ur system. Not sure if controlling testosterones metabolites on 160mg of test would work great for u as well, but it does work for me personally. And if it works for one person, there’s obv a chance it can work for others
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tareload
Guest
Yes absolutely. When I said higher androgen load I should have been explicitly clear I meant either the Testosterone and/or the downstream products which I did not control for. Not running any AI or anything else to modulate E2/DHT/....
After my heart scare my plan was to walk again before I run.
Appreciate your comments. Thank-you.
So no major critique on the food?
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@readalot and diet looks pretty good man, I have to say. Here’s things that are gonna mess with u, but probably not a ton. Nothing like ingesting crap oils, or high amounts of processed junk. Overall ur diet is better than most.
whey protein should be from grassfed cows and unflavored
almond butter most likely has crap oil in it. and nuts aren’t good for u overall. They have a net negative effect on the human body. Just not a huge negative or anything. But a net negative nonetheless. They contain anti-nutrients like phytates, protease inhibitors, and lectins, which can inhibit micronutrient absorption, and also cause inflammation. But again, the negative effects of nuts aren’t gonna be anywhere near eating a Big Mac or anything. Just not a good idea to eat stuff like almond butter, or nuts and seeds in general, on a daily basis. If u are gonna eat them, try to get sprouted nuts. Less anti-nutrients in sprouted nuts and seeds.
pasteurized/ homogenized dairy from grain fed cows is gonna be pretty bad for u overall. Definitely gonna cause inflammation. If ur gonna consume cheese, just try to make sure it’s raw cheese from grassfed cows
sardines are good to go. Wouldn’t eat farm raised salmon too often. But if it’s salmon that’s wild caught, that should be good to go as well
and veggies are similar to nuts, seeds and legumes. They're overall a net negative food health wise. But not horribly bad for u. Again, just not a food that u want to consume too regularly. Too many plant defense chemicals that are gonna cause issues within the body. I get it if u like the taste of them, or the texture, or like that it adds variety and color to a meal, but just be aware that ur not improving ur health by eating them. Ur giving ur body something that’s messing with it. Even if it’s only messing with it a small amount at a time. The only way I can see veggies improving health is if they replaced crap food with those veggies. So if normally they would have eaten a processed food for dinner, but replaced it with veggies, I can see that having a net benefit to their health. But they would obv do even better if they simply ate a food that was good for them, without that food messing with their body in any way. Like most animal products, for example. Animals defend themselves through physical means mostly, therefore they don’t have to have anything in their bodies that would hinder other things from eating them. If u can get past their physical defense mechanisms, the meat they offer is good to go for the most part. Plants/ veggies, nuts, seeds, legumes are not there to be nutrition for u. They’re there to adapt, survive, and reproduce. The way they increase their survival rate is by creating defense chemicals/ mechanisms within themselves that hopefully ward off things from wanting to eat them, by causing problems to some animals that try to ingest it. I’m not saying to stop eating veggies or nuts and stuff like that. Just know that when u do, ur doing a net negative to ur health. All I tell people is to understand this, and then proceed to do whatever makes them happy. Just don’t want people to do what I did for years and to purposely try to go out of their way to get veggies, nuts, seeds, legumes in their diet because they think it’s improving their health, even tho they don’t want to really be eating them, and would rather get calories in from other healthy foods.
whey protein should be from grassfed cows and unflavored
almond butter most likely has crap oil in it. and nuts aren’t good for u overall. They have a net negative effect on the human body. Just not a huge negative or anything. But a net negative nonetheless. They contain anti-nutrients like phytates, protease inhibitors, and lectins, which can inhibit micronutrient absorption, and also cause inflammation. But again, the negative effects of nuts aren’t gonna be anywhere near eating a Big Mac or anything. Just not a good idea to eat stuff like almond butter, or nuts and seeds in general, on a daily basis. If u are gonna eat them, try to get sprouted nuts. Less anti-nutrients in sprouted nuts and seeds.
pasteurized/ homogenized dairy from grain fed cows is gonna be pretty bad for u overall. Definitely gonna cause inflammation. If ur gonna consume cheese, just try to make sure it’s raw cheese from grassfed cows
sardines are good to go. Wouldn’t eat farm raised salmon too often. But if it’s salmon that’s wild caught, that should be good to go as well
and veggies are similar to nuts, seeds and legumes. They're overall a net negative food health wise. But not horribly bad for u. Again, just not a food that u want to consume too regularly. Too many plant defense chemicals that are gonna cause issues within the body. I get it if u like the taste of them, or the texture, or like that it adds variety and color to a meal, but just be aware that ur not improving ur health by eating them. Ur giving ur body something that’s messing with it. Even if it’s only messing with it a small amount at a time. The only way I can see veggies improving health is if they replaced crap food with those veggies. So if normally they would have eaten a processed food for dinner, but replaced it with veggies, I can see that having a net benefit to their health. But they would obv do even better if they simply ate a food that was good for them, without that food messing with their body in any way. Like most animal products, for example. Animals defend themselves through physical means mostly, therefore they don’t have to have anything in their bodies that would hinder other things from eating them. If u can get past their physical defense mechanisms, the meat they offer is good to go for the most part. Plants/ veggies, nuts, seeds, legumes are not there to be nutrition for u. They’re there to adapt, survive, and reproduce. The way they increase their survival rate is by creating defense chemicals/ mechanisms within themselves that hopefully ward off things from wanting to eat them, by causing problems to some animals that try to ingest it. I’m not saying to stop eating veggies or nuts and stuff like that. Just know that when u do, ur doing a net negative to ur health. All I tell people is to understand this, and then proceed to do whatever makes them happy. Just don’t want people to do what I did for years and to purposely try to go out of their way to get veggies, nuts, seeds, legumes in their diet because they think it’s improving their health, even tho they don’t want to really be eating them, and would rather get calories in from other healthy foods.
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tareload
Guest
Thank you for your detailed comments. You are correct my Achilles heel are nuts and seeds....cashews, almonds, pecans...
I eat the hell out of them. Almond butter I use is just almonds too haha.
I guess I can just go back to eating half a cow every couple months like I used to with some sardines for variety. I will take your almond challenge and see how it goes. I know alot of you dudes just eat beef all day. That could be a challenge for me.
I appreciate your time typing that out.
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tareload
Guest
I Cut back on the red meat to help with Hct. Used to eat alot. SHIT load of iron.
Eat lots of egg yolks. 2 a day usually.
Beef liver is nasty as hell. You got me haha. You are really going to make me suffer. Sardines awesome. Brussel sprouts gtg. Beef liver...shoot me!
Thank you @Gman86
I've similar feeling with big T spikes - for example, when on straight propionate or even nasal T gel (Natesto & Empower), both fast acting. The heavy chest would go away by the evening as T levels drop.
But without a doubt, the heaviest breathing issues were on the classic 100mg week Cypionate protocol. I always figured it was the water retention because the problem did not resolve until I lowered the dose.
I ended up switching to low dose daily injections using Enan/Prop blend. I am at 7-8mg per day. No heavy chest feeling, most likely because I am at much lower TT level than before with less water weight
Test results for 8mg daily blend (Enan + Prop)
Inspired by @Cataceous, I have been tinkering with Enan/Prop blends for the past year. The idea behind the daily blend is to re-introduce daily T fluctuation. Inject first thing in morning to peak early in day and let levels come down overnight. For example, Cat’s personal data based on 4:3...
www.excelmale.com
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
I personally wouldn’t put too much stock in the Apple Watch vo2 max. I typically Stay around 40-47 according to watch and then out of know where it dropped to 35. I felt no different all my workouts were same and trt regimen the same. And then a few weeks later was back to the 40s
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
I know this is going to sound crazy. But I couldn’t handle test cyp at all. It always gave me similar side effects you’re having. they Would be less brutal at lower doses but it always bothered me. Had none Of those sides with test e Except I would get headaches close to my peak. And never could get dialed in. Been on cream over six months and doing much better and able to handle higher levels then injections. And my hct is actually higher on cream
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