GreenMachineX
Well-Known Member
Oh, gotcha.
Switching From Daily To EOD or Anything Else
- Thread starter GreenMachineX
- Start date
The rationale for low dose daily injections makes really good sense. For me, it has been the most tolerable injection protocol, but I am still having some issues that I hopefully can resolve with some fine tuning.
That said, is there anyone here that has tried low dose daily and ultimately decided that they prefer a longer interval (like twice a week) for reasons other than convenience? Looking for anecdotes.
That said, is there anyone here that has tried low dose daily and ultimately decided that they prefer a longer interval (like twice a week) for reasons other than convenience? Looking for anecdotes.
Question for the floor: for anyone doing daily or EOD injections, has anyone found they still need an occasional AI? I recently had been on a low dose daily regimen. I jumped around a bit on dosing, but it was 10-15mg/day. Despite this, my Estradiol was recently 45. Disclaimers: it was not an ultrasensitive test and most would say that number is not high. But, I am pretty sure I do not like estradiol that high.
Free T at the same blood draw was right in the middle of normal range at 122.5 (46-224), so I am not sure why I was starting to feel bad, but my sense is that it was the E2. I probably need to get an ultrasensitive test under similar circumstances to draw a solid conclusion, but I am wondering if anyone doing frequents injections still finds E2 creep up on them?
Free T at the same blood draw was right in the middle of normal range at 122.5 (46-224), so I am not sure why I was starting to feel bad, but my sense is that it was the E2. I probably need to get an ultrasensitive test under similar circumstances to draw a solid conclusion, but I am wondering if anyone doing frequents injections still finds E2 creep up on them?
I was doing 16 mg, daily, IM, Test E. Near the end of the second week, I wasn't feeling right. Almost daily low grade headaches(base of the skull/neck). Checked my BP. High. 140's/70's to 150's/70's. I don't have any history of hypertension. Stopped. Within three days, BP back to 110-120/70. I'm just reporting what happened and don't know if the daily injections caused the spike. Last evening, tried 70 mg, with the thought of E5D. Woke up feeling tired, eyes aching and a mild headache. Checked my BP. High. It dropped back down later in the morning. My Test E is rx and started using the vial three weeks ago.
The other important variable is my wife's worsening dementia. She disappeared yesterday, for several hours in the MD/DC area where she was visiting family and her sister, who also has dementia. On her own, without telling anyone she left her niece's house at dawn with the carry on. Several hours later, with police looking for her, a young couple on their way to Orlando who befriended her on the Metro, texted me with a pic, and got her to Reagan National. I contacted a police sergeant who'd been communicating with me and he met up with the couple and my wife. The police got her on the plane.
Irony; once she was home and resting in bed, she wanted to cuddle and make love. That hasn't happened for a long time. I cuddled but couldn't follow through. Felt miserable. Going to ask my urologist about Trimix.
The other important variable is my wife's worsening dementia. She disappeared yesterday, for several hours in the MD/DC area where she was visiting family and her sister, who also has dementia. On her own, without telling anyone she left her niece's house at dawn with the carry on. Several hours later, with police looking for her, a young couple on their way to Orlando who befriended her on the Metro, texted me with a pic, and got her to Reagan National. I contacted a police sergeant who'd been communicating with me and he met up with the couple and my wife. The police got her on the plane.
Irony; once she was home and resting in bed, she wanted to cuddle and make love. That hasn't happened for a long time. I cuddled but couldn't follow through. Felt miserable. Going to ask my urologist about Trimix.
Shoot. That is a bummer on so many levels. Really sorry to hear this. Glad she’s back home safe.
I hear you on some of the issues you are describing. Do you have a recent set of labs that might reflect where you might be in terms of levels of everything? Also, maybe a beta blocker would help? On the other hand, beta blockers can have side effects that could make things worse than where you started. If you do this, consider a selective beta blocker like Bystolic.
Would love to hear more.
GreenMachineX
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry to hear all that. But I'm glad she's home safe as well. I'm thinking for us transition back to a normal protocol, we would need to let the current test completely wash out for several weeks, although I am doing well on 4mg daily now.
If you're doing well, that's all that matters.
Thank you. Going to my urologist next week and there will be new labs. I know that beta blockers can worsen ED. I can only suspect the daily shots were responsible but I wouldn't say it with certainty. The stress I'm living with, in addition to bipolar illness, is enough to affect my BP. This morning, 104/64. If these BP swings continue, I'll consult my primary. I believe there's a monitor that can be worn which records your BP for several days & nights. There's a condition called malignant hypertension, where BP spikes only when you're sleeping.
Get yourself a good blood pressure cuff. I have learned that some cuffs are not as consistent or accurate as others, which can create unnecessary anxiety. I bought one like this and I find it pretty consistent. When you check your pressure, sit down for a few minutes and relax. Pee before hand if you need to. Uncross your feet and chill. Check the pressure. Then wait a minute or two and check it again. For some reason, the second read is always a bit lower for me.
I can't remember how much trial and error you've been through, but I wouldn't necessarily bail on small daily injections. Maybe you can drop to 10mg/day. I am about to go back to a daily microdosing schedule, after one larger injection that I did not like.
Have you looked at E2 recently? That can play a role. Have you looked at thyroid?
A lot of things can cause hypertension, and at the end of the day, you may have essential hypertension driven by genetics and may need to address it. That said, it sounds like you see a pattern with injections, so you are being smart by trying to identify a cause and effect relationship.
I am a proponent of Natesto, although admittedly, I am not on it right now. The slight inconvenience (which is not really all that bad) is offset by a ton of upsides: it probably won't bump your pressure; it's out of you quickly if you don't like it; won't bump hematocrit or E2; My updated opinion on libido is that it has a favorable effect.
I'm rooting for you.
Thank you. Yes, have a BP cuff that wraps around the upper arm. A few years ago, because of multiple high BP readings at my doctor's office, he asked me to take daily readings. At home it was always well within normal; 110/120 over 70. Anxiety is a component of bipolar illness and my anxiety has worsened over the years. Going to a doctor bumps it up. Just going out to the store or restaurant bumps it up. And as I watch my wife's decline, with me being her caregiver, I in a near constant anxious state.
Bummer. I would reiterate a comment above regarding beta blockers. They can definitely cause side effects, but it is also possible you find one that addresses both your anxiety and your blood pressure without too many side effects. Talk it over with your doctor.
I was on propranolol and it for sure helped both for me. However, I was fatigued and a tad depressed. I switched to a selective beta blocker, Bystolic. I take it at night and the side effects are much more tolerable.
Good luck.
If I continue to have BP issues, I'd definitely discuss it with my primary.
The quote above is something I posted recently. I discovered the source of my bouts of anxiety and felt really compelled to give follow up on this. I was very surprised to discover the culprit: CoQ10 supplements.
In addition to low T, I suffer from migraines, and in some ways they are interrelated. There are a number of supplements that are commonly tied to headache reduction, including CoQ10. I recently started taking it on a regular basis. Unfortunately, I can't remember with 100% certainly, but I am nearly certain that I had been taking 200mg a day and forgot about it.
Fast forward a month or so. I have been working on titrating my daily microdosing of enanthate and began noticing bouts of anxiety and tachycardia. I felt uncomfortably keyed up, and it always seemed to happen around 12 hours after my injection. Most of us here tend to think that many of our physical and mental problems are related to low T or the treatment of such, including me. I naturally concluded that either T levels or metabolites were peaking at around 12 hours, so I started watching it more closely, and even tried an AI to see what that did to these episodes.
On top of the regular, near-daily episodes, I have had some scattered days on which I feel very mentally alert, with tons of energy and clarity. However, many of those days were also associated with horrible nights of insomnia - like the alertness just wouldn't go away, despite a desire to sleep. It wrecked several days for me.
While these episodes of evening anxiety and occasional nights of insomnia persisted, I sought ways to combat them. Naturally, I assumed TRT was causing all this. So, I decided try a twice-a-week protocol - thinking maybe that would disrupt the 12 hour pattern. So, I injected Xyosted 50mg one day. Then, around three days later, at the same time in the evening, the episode recurred - anxious, uncomfortable feeling with tachycardia. I was perplexed, because it did not follow the 12 hour rule, and thought it very unlikely to be from the same root cause as the other episodes.
So, I started to consider other possible causes, and it occurred to me that shortly before this all started, I increased my CoQ10 dose to 400mg/day, and bam! That was the explanation! As I said above, I am not 100% sure, but am near 100% sure that I had been taking 200mg/day prior to all this. After spotting the correlation, I did a little research and read tons of anecdotes of people feeling improved mental clarity and energy on CoQ10. But, many also reported feeling keyed up and anxious and several reported severe insomnia! I then realized that I tend to take my AM supplements around the same time as my morning injection. The bouts of anxiety were not 12 hours after my injection - they were around 12 hours after taking the high dose CoQ10!
I have stated numerous times that I think you have to tread lightly with anecdotal information, but in many situations, it's the best you have. That totally applied in this situation. I stopped the CoQ10, and the 12-hour recurring episodes have totally resolved! I was a bit shocked by all this, but am really glad to have answers. On the flip side, there were days I felt really great on CoQ10 mentally, so I wouldn't rule out trying it at lower doses in the future.
This experience has highlighted several lessons for me, including the reaffirmation that low T is not the source of all our ills, nor is TRT the solution for all of them. It also drove home the notion that even over the counter, seemingly innocuous supplements can be powerful. I am fortunate to have figured this out and would encourage us all to take into consideration OTC supplements when trying to troubleshoot some of our struggles. I made a similar discover about DHEA about a year or so ago and don't touch it any more.
Many of us blame things like anxiety on either low T, being supraphysiologic, or having high or low E2. This was a eureka moment for me, so I will create a separate thread on this, specifically to take CoQ10 into consideration. It may be useful to generate more discussion on this interesting supplement.
Your detective work shows how, sometimes, we have to be our own doctors. I had a similar experience with K2/Mk4. I'd been reading, a couple of years ago, on Ray Peat Forum, that high dose K2/Mk4(45 mg or higher, daily) has been shown to increase testosterone. I tried it. Within a few days, my sleep, never good, had worsened, as had my anxiety. It was the only change I'd made. Stopped it and after several days, symptoms resolved.
GreenMachineX
Well-Known Member
Out of range high or low?
GreenMachineX
Well-Known Member
Is this post still accurate? Coq10 was the issue and not e2 or peaking test levels?
Yep. That said, other crap can make me anxious, but Coq10 was definitely a factor.
Edit six months later: I am now thinking it not the CoQ10. I posted about this in another thread. I will update if I learn more.
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