DHEA Levels and Effects of Supplementation

[HarryCat]

I found when I tried switching from levothyroxine to NDT my freeT3 went to the top of the range but my freeT4 went below the bottom of the range. My iron and cortisol levels were fine. Clearly too much T3 for me. I went back to levo, although I could have tried just reducing my NDT dose and adding in some levo to try and find the right balance.

 

[GreenMachineX]

I found when I tried switching from levothyroxine to NDT my freeT3 went to the top of the range but my freeT4 went below the bottom of the range. My iron and cortisol levels were fine. Clearly too much T3 for me. I went back to levo, although I could have tried just reducing my NDT dose and adding in some levo to try and find the right balance.

What symptoms did you have?

 

[GreenMachineX]

The weird thing is I don’t have many symptoms, just what I mentioned and looking tired all the time, but I’m not and sleeping great.

 

[Deleted member 16042]

I looked at a few more of your posts/threads. you have had an awful lot going on in terms of symptoms until now, and possibly have more going on than hormone issues. Your heart palps might or might not be related to your HRT. There are many causes including actual heart problems.

In my case they are hereditary and benign, and easily exacerbated by too much caffeine, lack of sleep, stress and overexerting/overtraining.

Too much thyroid could certainly do it as well.

Anyway, seems like there's a lot more to consider. I hope you figure it out, but accurate self diagnosis might be hit or miss.

 

[captain]

I found when I tried switching from levothyroxine to NDT my freeT3 went to the top of the range but my freeT4 went below the bottom of the range. My iron and cortisol levels were fine. Clearly too much T3 for me. I went back to levo, although I could have tried just reducing my NDT dose and adding in some levo to try and find the right balance.

That is normally what you see with NDT. This is because of the T4/T3 ratio in pigs is 4 to 1 and humans are 11 to 1.

 

[captain]

The talk of anxiety and getting better with higher E2 you probably should be checking your DHT level. Some people get anxiety with elevated DHT. You can use Progesterone to get anxiety from DHT under control if that is the case. That is the only use for Progesterone in a man that is recommended by Dr. Crisler. This is probably why HCG helps with anxiety.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Thanks for the input all. I’m going to call my doctor tomorrow and ask for more in depth testing. This is really getting old. 8 months I’ve been getting flutters/palpitations.

I did wear a holter monitor for a week 6 months ago and all the results were normal.

 

[FeelingLost]

Thanks for the input all. I'm going to call my doctor tomorrow and ask for more in depth testing. This is really getting old. 8 months I've been getting flutters/palpitations.

I did wear a holter monitor for a week 6 months ago and all the results were normal.

Are you saying you feel these flutters/palpitations and the holter monitor did not pick them up?

 

[GreenMachineX]

Are you saying you feel these flutters/palpitations and the holter monitor did not pick them up?

Well, The doctor said there were no abnormalities.

Other things I’m now considering and going to ask for blood tests due to a couple more symptoms I’m realizing (feeling out of breath even though pulse oximeter reads 98 or 99% O2 sat and tinnitus):
Folate Deficiency
B12 Deficiency
D deficiency
Iron deficiency (doubt this one because dizziness isn’t that common anymore).

 

[GreenMachineX]

Bringing it all together.
https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?11727-Estradiol-Issues&p=93305#post93305

I was wrong about all those symptoms. It was low e2 after all. Not sure what low DHEA is causing but it’s not the flutters and anxiety.

 

[Shawn]

i know this is an old post but i would really like some updates if you are still around. i am wanting to use DHEA but terrified of those heart sides. i cant tolerate any stimulants, even herbs like Gaia adrenal stuff made me hyper. im 41 and my DHEA is 110 (93 - 415). ive got the Douglas sublingual 5mg tabs but still scared to even use 1.25mg. i think its the combo of the TRT and the herbs and DHEA that is causing those palpitations. i know they went down for a bit. but you cant use rhodiola, maca, ashwagandha and DHEA together because they exacerbate the effects. they all boost DHEA but very little. who knows what else is going on. but i would really like to know if you kept up this protocol and ever titrated your DHEA dose til today.

Bringing it all together.
Estradiol Issues

I was wrong about all those symptoms. It was low e2 after all. Not sure what low DHEA is causing but it’s not the flutters and anxiety.

 

[GreenMachineX]

i know this is an old post but i would really like some updates if you are still around. i am wanting to use DHEA but terrified of those heart sides. i cant tolerate any stimulants, even herbs like Gaia adrenal stuff made me hyper. im 41 and my DHEA is 110 (93 - 415). ive got the Douglas sublingual 5mg tabs but still scared to even use 1.25mg. i think its the combo of the TRT and the herbs and DHEA that is causing those palpitations. i know they went down for a bit. but you cant use rhodiola, maca, ashwagandha and DHEA together because they exacerbate the effects. they all boost DHEA but very little. who knows what else is going on. but i would really like to know if you kept up this protocol and ever titrated your DHEA dose til today.

Hello, I gave dhea a fair shot several times, between sublingual, oral and transdermal, none of it provided me any benefit I could see, so my levels are back to under 100. I also stopped most supplements after realizing they were all making any and all issues worse. I only take vitamin D and a tiny bit of C now. At one point, I got my levels up to almost mid range normal without the heart palpitations, but it still didn’t benefit me and only gave me excess water retention.

What is everything you take, including vitamins?

 

[Shawn]

i was thrilled to hear that you stopped all the supplements and vitamins because i believe most people are doing more harm than good by using them. there are no regulations for these supplements. these companies are snakes and can put (and do put) whatever they want in there and they are allowed to (short of killing you, and even then, they could just blame it on a natural death i suppose). can you imagine someone who takes 15-20 supps a day and one had some poison in it, are they going to take (find?) all these supplements in the house and test each one? maybe but then they may not even contain a poison, just too much of one thing that caused it like...DHEA which is extremely powerful even in tiny doses.

i don't use anything besides food and natural whole herbs in a tea form or tincture and even with tinctures, i'm very careful what i use and only use them as medicine. i do use licorice root and deer antler because i was on HRT for 8 years and stopped. i stopped because i have adrenal insufficiency for 20 years. i didn't know this til recently. i took trenbolone and it permanently damaged my adrenals, lowering my DHEA down to rock bottom. my aldosterone is also low but my cortisol shows perfect (saliva and urine) but metabolites are super low and so are DHEA metabolites. my DHEA serum was 110 (range 93 - 415). I have digestive symptoms, low-grade tinnitus in right ear which makes me sensitive to noises and irritable, anxiety (even just low-level, not wanting to do things or commit to things and have irrational fears). my total testosterone is low, about 340ng and i'm only 41. it's been low ever since i got off around 2018.

i am happy to hear that you were able to resolve the heart palpitations because i am terrified of that side effect. my old man died of a heart attack. i think that if it is low, you would experience some of the symptoms i mentioned. it's almost impossible not to.

digestion issues, noise sensitivities, dry skin, irritability, weakness, fatigue (i don't have fatigue unless i try to do something physical and i can hardly lift any weights). my blood sugar drops fast, i was in the gym the other day, i feel like muscularly i could lift the weights but the stamina. after a couple sets, i feel like im going to pass out. on HRT i didn't have these issues so it could be low testosterone, and my bodyweight is 10-15 pounds under what i was. i'm real skinny now.

i have the Douglas labs sublingual and wanting to give that a try. i believe the maca, rhodiola and ashwagandha you were taking exacerbating the sides from the DHEA. they boost them on their own. how much, i dont know but i have them all here and just haven't started on them. i feel safer trying them but it is possible that you just simply convert to DHT and estrogen even at lower doses. i convert to estrogen fast. maybe taking zinc and an AI is necessary. you do have low levels which is not healthy. so either try the herbs alone and re-test or use 2.5mg Douglas sublingual. there is not a lot of experiences with this, mostly it is HRT or TRT but i feel that DHEA is just as important. it is an adrenal hormone.

 

[GreenMachineX]

i was thrilled to hear that you stopped all the supplements and vitamins because i believe most people are doing more harm than good by using them. there are no regulations for these supplements. these companies are snakes and can put (and do put) whatever they want in there and they are allowed to (short of killing you, and even then, they could just blame it on a natural death i suppose). can you imagine someone who takes 15-20 supps a day and one had some poison in it, are they going to take (find?) all these supplements in the house and test each one? maybe but then they may not even contain a poison, just too much of one thing that caused it like...DHEA which is extremely powerful even in tiny doses.

i don't use anything besides food and natural whole herbs in a tea form or tincture and even with tinctures, i'm very careful what i use and only use them as medicine. i do use licorice root and deer antler because i was on HRT for 8 years and stopped. i stopped because i have adrenal insufficiency for 20 years. i didn't know this til recently. i took trenbolone and it permanently damaged my adrenals, lowering my DHEA down to rock bottom. my aldosterone is also low but my cortisol shows perfect (saliva and urine) but metabolites are super low and so are DHEA metabolites. my DHEA serum was 110 (range 93 - 415). I have digestive symptoms, low-grade tinnitus in right ear which makes me sensitive to noises and irritable, anxiety (even just low-level, not wanting to do things or commit to things and have irrational fears). my total testosterone is low, about 340ng and i'm only 41. it's been low ever since i got off around 2018.

i am happy to hear that you were able to resolve the heart palpitations because i am terrified of that side effect. my old man died of a heart attack. i think that if it is low, you would experience some of the symptoms i mentioned. it's almost impossible not to.

digestion issues, noise sensitivities, dry skin, irritability, weakness, fatigue (i don't have fatigue unless i try to do something physical and i can hardly lift any weights). my blood sugar drops fast, i was in the gym the other day, i feel like muscularly i could lift the weights but the stamina. after a couple sets, i feel like im going to pass out. on HRT i didn't have these issues so it could be low testosterone, and my bodyweight is 10-15 pounds under what i was. i'm real skinny now.

i have the Douglas labs sublingual and wanting to give that a try. i believe the maca, rhodiola and ashwagandha you were taking exacerbating the sides from the DHEA. they boost them on their own. how much, i dont know but i have them all here and just haven't started on them. i feel safer trying them but it is possible that you just simply convert to DHT and estrogen even at lower doses. i convert to estrogen fast. maybe taking zinc and an AI is necessary. you do have low levels which is not healthy. so either try the herbs alone and re-test or use 2.5mg Douglas sublingual. there is not a lot of experiences with this, mostly it is HRT or TRT but i feel that DHEA is just as important. it is an adrenal hormone.

Yeah, I’ve tried all that…with supps, just dhea, each supp solo, etc and just don’t find any benefit to any of it, except vit D and C that is.

 

[Shawn]

do you have any of the symptoms i mentioned?

 

[GreenMachineX]

do you have any of the symptoms i mentioned?

All of them, but I think most are due to lower e2 levels, not DHEA. I rarely feel like I’m going to pass out though, but dry skin, lethargy (or overstimulation), weakness (relative to amount of muscle mass), irritability and noise sensitivity. None improved with good dhea levels, but when e2 levels are up to par, most go away, but then I hold too much water.

 

[Shawn]

interesting. because i too, have very low E2 levels. sometimes they have been undetectable. i use deer antler which increases it a bit. if i eat foods that increase it, i just end up looking bloated and losing any erections. but trust me, i've had these symptoms with low or high e2 for 20 years. its from low DHEA. what were your levels when you were supplementing with it, do you have any labs? also, sometimes blood tests are not accurate so maybe you thought you brought it up but you may never have.

i've been talking to other people with low DHEA (some also suspect it is low E2) but i am seeing too much of the same pattern with these symptoms. they all have them. i would re-visit with another brand perhaps or increase the dose. did any of these symptoms go down a bit while you were on DHEA? i think that the heart palps could be due to too much DHT perhaps but the DHEA hormone itself is necessary in the body and is also a precursor to 18 other hormones, not just testosterone and its downstream metabolites such as DHT and estrogen

 

[GreenMachineX]

interesting. because i too, have very low E2 levels. sometimes they have been undetectable. i use deer antler which increases it a bit. if i eat foods that increase it, i just end up looking bloated and losing any erections. but trust me, i've had these symptoms with low or high e2 for 20 years. its from low DHEA. what were your levels when you were supplementing with it, do you have any labs? also, sometimes blood tests are not accurate so maybe you thought you brought it up but you may never have.

i've been talking to other people with low DHEA (some also suspect it is low E2) but i am seeing too much of the same pattern with these symptoms. they all have them. i would re-visit with another brand perhaps or increase the dose. did any of these symptoms go down a bit while you were on DHEA? i think that the heart palps could be due to too much DHT perhaps but the DHEA hormone itself is necessary in the body and is also a precursor to 18 other hormones, not just testosterone and its downstream metabolites such as DHT and estrogen

Yeah, I had labs drawn to verify DHEA-S levels went up and they did, somewhere mid range. I’d have to go through 100 blood tests to find it so you’ll just have to trust me lol. I’ve used multiple brands including Douglas, sublingual worked the strongest to get my levels up but oral did as well (but more bloat). Also, just 5mg per day bloated me like a whale. 12.5mg sublingual got my levels up (I just dealt with the bloat to see what would happen). Not worth it.

 

[Shawn]

you had way too much estrogen on it. one MD states he uses only DHEA to raise total test but must be used with an AI. i would really like for you to go through those blood tests if possible. do you remember when exactly you used which brand? i know i am asking quite a bit, but I'm doing a lot of research on this for obvious reasons since i believe all my problems (including the anxiety) is attributed to low DHEA. i got these sides over night when i took too much tren. hit me all at once and never resolved on its own. did the heart palps continue when you were using 12.5mg sublingual and was this Douglas? i did read that you had to drop it to 2.5mg to get the heart palps to go away but then you thought it was something else. do you recall what exactly the heart palps came from? was it from the DHEA after all, or e2? or the combo of the other herbs?

 

[Shawn]

by the way i wanted to mention that 6 years ago on HRT i too had mid range DHEA. i didnt know how important it was, my doc just wanted to test everything. they say that on HRT, some can get an increase but it isn't much. also, since i was mid-range, i believe that the symptoms "may" have decreased slightly but were still there. to me, that means that mid-range isn't good enough. also it was just one test i ever did while on HRT, serum tests are unstable.

we may need to get our DHEA in the upper third to get these symptoms to go away. you should revisit and use an AI to keep estrogen down. i think it is worth exploring. also, if you did have that much bloat and the symptoms did not go away, you know for a fact it is not estrogen since it would have resolved with that much bloat indicating high levels. that tells me that your DHEA simply was not high enough to resolve your symptoms