DHEA Levels and Effects of Supplementation

[FeelingLost]

Does 7-keto DHEA offer any of the regular DHEA benefits other than weight loss?

7-KETO DHEA
7-keto-DHEA is a byproduct of DHEA. But unlike DHEA, 7-keto-DHEA is not converted to steroid hormones such as androgen and estrogen. Taking 7-keto-DHEA by mouth or applying it to the skin does not increase the level of steroid hormones in the blood. Thus, 7-keto DHEA deserves study to determine whether it has the same efficacy as DHEA without the hormonal side effects.

source: http://www.mentalhealthamerica.net/dhea

 

[GreenMachineX]

^its low e2 rebounding nothing to do with too high T...

I know you have a lot of experience with low e2; do you get the effects I described as well? Did your e2 finally normalize?
whats your protocol now?

 

[GreenMachineX]

Does DHEA effect thyroid hormones entry into cells? Any chance it's making my Naturethroid more effective and possibly why I've lost a few pounds already since starting the DHEA? That would explain the strange overstimulation...

 

[JPB]

Yes it may impact thyroid

 

[GreenMachineX]

I've also been wondering if Maca can lower estrogen at all. I'm pretty sure it's been masking most of the low e2 symptoms I normally would have, hot flashes, depression, insomnia, anxiety, etc. it doesn't stop the heart palpitations or flutters though. I just wonder if while treating the symptoms, it also prevents e2 from raising to where it should be. It's been 8 weeks almost now and e2 is still low.

 

[lowe2sucks]

I know you have a lot of experience with low e2; do you get the effects I described as well? Did your e2 finally normalize?
whats your protocol now?

yeah I was getting a lot of symptoms you mentioned on rebound.. I was improving but it took me very long time because I crashed my estrogen very bad with high dose of AI. I probably crashed again because my e2 recently was tested at 7 but I haven't taken an AI. have a lot of symptoms you described like dizziness and out of it feeling right now. and I remember you once had symptom "teeth feel weird" or so and I am noticing this too..

 

[GreenMachineX]

yeah I was getting a lot of symptoms you mentioned on rebound.. I was improving but it took me very long time because I crashed my estrogen very bad with high dose of AI. I probably crashed again because my e2 recently was tested at 7 but I haven't taken an AI. have a lot of symptoms you described like dizziness and out of it feeling right now. and I remember you once had symptom "teeth feel weird" or so and I am noticing this too..

That sucks man. What are you going to do?
Any idea how long it took for you initially to rebound? I just feel like 8 weeks without an AI should've been long enough, but I could be wrong.
With regard to Maca, it definitely covers most of the low e symptoms and may be worth a shot. The thing is like I said on my last post, I just don't know if it prevents e2 from being made at all, and if so, to what degree. I'll be getting Labs maybe next week. I took a few days off Maca and realized to what extent it was helping. Hopefully today is better.

That teeth symptom is bizarre, isn't it? I think for me it's just a reflection of the degree of anxiety I'm having.

 

[lowe2sucks]

My DHEA-S level is similar to yours, and I have had similar reactions when I try to raise it. After trying doses as small as 5mg, as well as transdermal with the same side effects, I've just given up on ever trying to raise it. Some things you just can't change.

did you use otc transdermal or from pharmacy? thank you
my e2 one months post stopping dhea cream (i used it for 5-7 months few months 15mg few months 50mg daily) my e2 sensitive was 17 i think and about 2 months later 7.. no ai.. I don't think it's e2 problem (your symptoms Extreme anxiety at 50mg, restlessness, worsened insomnia and milder anxiety at lower doses. I've stopped trying to boost my levels.) but who knows.. all I know that if dhea would be raising e2 that much it I would probably get higher result after stopping it since I havent used any AI

 

[GreenMachineX]

did you use otc transdermal or from pharmacy? thank you
my e2 one months post stopping dhea cream (i used it for 5-7 months few months 15mg few months 50mg daily) my e2 sensitive was 17 i think and about 2 months later 7.. no ai.. I don't think it's e2 problem (your symptoms Extreme anxiety at 50mg, restlessness, worsened insomnia and milder anxiety at lower doses. I've stopped trying to boost my levels.) but who knows.. all I know that if dhea would be raising e2 that much it I would probably get higher result after stopping it since I havent used any AI

Have you had an e2 test while on the DHEA? Why did you stop the DHEA?

I'm now using 2.5mg sublingual DHEA and it’s far more manageable. It’s still stimulating but not as overwhelming. I’m gonna keep using it as long as I can tolerate it, and hopefully I adjust to it and can raise accordingly.

 

[HarryCat]

did you use otc transdermal or from pharmacy? thank you
my e2 one months post stopping dhea cream (i used it for 5-7 months few months 15mg few months 50mg daily) my e2 sensitive was 17 i think and about 2 months later 7.. no ai.. I don't think it's e2 problem (your symptoms Extreme anxiety at 50mg, restlessness, worsened insomnia and milder anxiety at lower doses. I've stopped trying to boost my levels.) but who knows.. all I know that if dhea would be raising e2 that much it I would probably get higher result after stopping it since I havent used any AI

It was from APS compounding pharmacy.

 

[GreenMachineX]

Little update here:

Increasing my test dose now to 70mg twice a week has definitely brought my e2 up. My vascularity is back, face isn’t as dried out, energy is great, sleeping well, and blood pressure coming down (132/82 this morning). My blood pressure should come down even more now that I’m lowering my Maca dose; just found out it can increase BP quite a bit. The palpitations, heart flutters and racing heart at night are all gone too (heart rate increases every so often mildly but nothing like it was).

I’m also tolerating 2.5mg DHEA sublingual and do not feel that strange overstimulation anymore. I was considering increasing to 3.75mg or 5mg, but...

I’ve also lost morning erections. My libido isn’t quite what it could be either. So I’m not sure exactly what’s going since I actually feel good otherwise. Any suggestions?

 

[lowe2sucks]

keep protocol the same.. let the hormones stabilize

 

[GreenMachineX]

keep protocol the same.. let the hormones stabilize

Don’t even increase DHEA dose a little?

 

[lowe2sucks]

i don't know about dhea honestly I feel like the dhea cream crashed my e2 not long time ago.. my bloodwork indeed showed that I was very low. but oral dhea felt different then cream if I recall correctly never tried sublingual
I was tested at 7 like 2-3 weeks ago.. I feel like im getting dementia with this level of estradiol lol

 

[GreenMachineX]

i don't know about dhea honestly I feel like the dhea cream crashed my e2 not long time ago.. my bloodwork indeed showed that I was very low. but oral dhea felt different then cream if I recall correctly never tried sublingual
I was tested at 7 like 2-3 weeks ago.. I feel like im getting dementia with this level of estradiol lol

Your e2 was a 7??? I don’t think DHEA would crash estrogen...?

What’s your protocol and supplementation?

 

[lowe2sucks]

I am 100% sure it was dhea cream.. maybe its the addition ingredients (I was using life flo brand). my buddy also got same thing from it..

 

[GreenMachineX]

Update:
I’m up to 5mg sublingual in the morning and 2.5mg sublingual in the afternoon of DHEA and feeling good. It’s not overstimulating at all anymore. I’m wondering if the next dosage bump should be to 5 and 5 mg every 12 hours or 7.5mg and 2.5mg morning and afternoon?

All the low estradiol sides are basically gone. Occasionally I get heart flutters randomly during the day with increased heart rate but not at night anymore. It may be anxiety related now that I’m conpletely off the beta blocker.

One odd thing, morning wood is back but my libido is only mild. I’m surprised it’s not on fire especially since I feel incredible in every other way. I mean, when it comes time, I’m all in but no thoughts at all about it and completely ok if I fall asleep instead of waiting for the wife to finish what’s she’s doing so we can get it on. It’s happened a couple times now.

 

[lowe2sucks]

yeah brother i had same thing regarding libido when my e2 raised from crashed to normal.. before it crashed higher e2 had positive effect on libido (meaning I wanted ***** all the time) but my erections could be hit or miss.. after I crashed e2 and it raised to normal again I didn't have libido with normal e2 anymore.. like something changed. but it was getting better after long time staying stable with e2 and not touching any AIs. you will be alright don't stress it out your body just went through a lot of hormonal fluctuations you need to let everything stabilize

 

[GreenMachineX]

yeah brother i had same thing regarding libido when my e2 raised from crashed to normal.. before it crashed higher e2 had positive effect on libido (meaning I wanted ***** all the time) but my erections could be hit or miss.. after I crashed e2 and it raised to normal again I didn't have libido with normal e2 anymore.. like something changed. but it was getting better after long time staying stable with e2 and not touching any AIs. you will be alright don't stress it out your body just went through a lot of hormonal fluctuations you need to let everything stabilize

Right on. I won’t be touching any AIs without blood work. But, I’ve reduced my test dosage back to 60mg twice a week. I realized something. In all that before thinking too high testosterone was causing those palpitations and stuff, I reduced my testosterone dosage to 50mg twice a week without telling my doctor (I haven’t used 80mg twice a week in a year) So she thinks 80mg twice a week gives a test level of 600. So when she bumped me to 180 total a week, increasing my dose from 100mg per week to 140mg per week might be too huge a jump. Does this line of thinking make sense or am I analyzing it too much and just run with 140mg (what I’ve been using to get my e2 up for past 3-4 weeks)?

 

[GreenMachineX]

Finally got my sensitive e2 where it should be at 27 (8-35) and total testosterone at 848 (264-916) from 140mg/week, no AI. The problem is I’m still having heart flutters! I’m starting to believe there’s more going on than just low e2.

For some reason I can’t find my labs from 2 months ago that had my thyroid results on it, but I’m on 82.25mg Naturethroid which I was switched to from synthroid about 4 months ago. I recall my doctor just saying my numbers looked a little low but wanted to optimize DHEA before addressing. Being that my DHEA was so low, could low adrenal output or low pregnenolone be causing me not to tolerate the t3 in the thyroid meds?
I did have the low e2 symptoms of palpitations only at night and whatnot prior to this. Could low e2 for too long have brought out adrenal insufficiency or low preg? Should I skip thyroid meds for a couple days and see if it goes away?

Also what makes me think it’s no longer sex hormones is I have morning wood all night long and libido is good. The only symptoms are random increased heart rate with chest/stomach flutters with a bit of anxiety. Almost like a motor humming inside.

Any thoughts?