Clomid Restart w/Defy

[johndoesmith]

Thank you, Dr. Saya. I am trying to find the middle ground between logging pertinent details vs. navel gazing. It seems, and perhaps it perception bias, us forum guys can be hyper-sensitive to a fault.

I am mentally ready for the ups and downs and will soldier on. BUT I need to find a dose of tadalafil the works in the interim; the psychological and relational impact of intermittent ED is the worst.

I think there's 2 reasons why forum guys are hypersensitive, 1 being that forums are filled with mostly extremely positive responses and extremely negative responses. The more slightly positive/negative responses aren't as vocal about their experiences, thus guys who are just starting treatment either have too high of expectations or too high of a fear of really bad responses.

Not many people go online to say "Yeah, my experience was okay, improved my life but I still have work to do".

2. The type of person who goes online is someone who's very informed or is seeking to be. Therefore they are noticing every change with a powerful lens.

Also, you mentioned discounted labs taking longer to return results, and that is not true IMO. The ordering physician or service has nothing to do with the speed of results, usually, Labcorp determines that.

I've noticed my E2 sensitive results are taking longer lately to return. In June I had a 2 business day turnaround time, now it's 3-4 business days. I've ordered from discounted labs and defy. Both send me the results within hours of receipt. You can check the top of your lab report if you want to compare to the time the email was sent.

 

[JakeH]

...Also, you mentioned discounted labs taking longer to return results, and that is not true IMO. The ordering physician or service has nothing to do with the speed of results, usually, Labcorp determines that.

I've noticed my E2 sensitive results are taking longer lately to return. In June I had a 2 business day turnaround time, now it's 3-4 business days. I've ordered from discounted labs and defy. Both send me the results within hours of receipt. You can check the top of your lab report if you want to compare to the time the email was sent.

Very well. I only had my latest experience to go on, but you have more experience. I did not think that it could be Labcorp, so I will see how it checks out next time.

 

[johndoesmith]

Very well. I only had my latest experience to go on, but you have more experience. I did not think that it could be Labcorp, so I will see how it checks out next time.

Think of it this way, the only difference between ordering from defy vs discounted labs is the ordering of the labs.

With both you go to labcorp, show the paper, and from there it's exactly the same.

Where about in the US are you?

 

[JakeH]

Great points. I am in Upstate South Carolina.

 

[johndoesmith]

Great points. I am Upstate South Carolina.

Odd. The only lab in the country that does sensitive E2 tests is in North Carolina.

How long have yours been taking?

 

[JakeH]

Usually, blood draw on Friday, results returned Thursday. I had no idea that it was only going to NC.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

Think of it this way, the only difference between ordering from defy vs discounted labs is the ordering of the labs

Very true. In fact DiscountedLabs orders are submitted through one of our "sister" lab accounts.

 

[JakeH]

Ah ha! Thanks for the info. I retracted my statements above, and cited talking out of my butt as reason.

 

[JakeH]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Day 9: After getting 10 hours of sleep, I feel better. Managed to have sex twice today (out of three attempts), but I took 20mg Cialis to make it happen, when 5mg (2.5mg AM/PM) did the job before. The psychogenic aspect cannot be ruled out, as my confidence in erections has taken a beating lately. I am having anxiety attacks leading up to sex if there is a hint I cannot perform, which kicks in the sympathetic nervous system. I breakout in a sweat and my erections are gone for at least 45 min. To get this under control, I have started seeing a therapist to deal with the anxiety. [/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Day 11: Planned to get a blood test this morning to have a correlation between symptoms and blood work (see day 7,8 remarks, above), but I decided to wait until day 14, as that is the last day of HCG, and seems like a natural data point to have before moving to Clomid.

I am completely confounded by the fact that 15 months ago I could have 8 drinks and have sex without a thought, and even do it again 10 minutes after an orgasm. Now, I need drugs and therapy. [/FONT]

 

[johndoesmith]

Day 9: After getting 10 hours of sleep, I feel better. Managed to have sex twice today (out of three attempts), but I took 20mg Cialis to make it happen, when 5mg (2.5mg AM/PM) did the job before. The psychogenic aspect cannot be ruled out, as my confidence in erections has taken a beating lately. I am having anxiety attacks leading up to sex if there is a hint I cannot perform, which kicks in the sympathetic nervous system. I breakout in a sweat and my erections are gone for at least 45 min. To get this under control, I have started seeing a therapist to deal with the anxiety.

Day 11: Planned to get a blood test this morning to have a correlation between symptoms and blood work (see day 7,8 remarks, above), but I decided to wait until day 14, as that is the last day of HCG, and seems like a natural data point to have before moving to Clomid.

I am completely confounded by the fact that 15 months ago I could have 8 drinks and have sex without a thought, and even do it again 10 minutes after an orgasm. Now, I need drugs and therapy.

There is no shame in needing drugs or therapy. I am no stranger to either, and while it's best to never need it, I am happy that it is there.

Things will get better man, take the whip off your back, that may be a huge part of your problem.

 

[JakeH]

There is no shame in needing drugs or therapy. I am no stranger to either, and while it's best to never need it, I am happy that it is there.

Things will get better man, take the whip off your back, that may be a huge part of your problem.

Thanks, man. I did not mean to be petulant. I am SO thankful that both therapies exist. I was more saying I am taken aback by the rapidity of the change. Which leads me to think that, as you said, I need to take the whip off my back. I have got to let it go, as my brain is probably the larger component.

 

[johndoesmith]

Thanks, man. I did not mean to be petulant. I am SO thankful that both therapies exist. I was more saying I am taken aback by the rapidity of the change. Which leads me to think that, as you said, I need to take the whip off my back. I have got to let it go, as my brain is probably the larger component.

I didn't take it that way at all, I took it as someone who's anxious and hard on themselves due to uncontrollable things. There's a lot of shame associated with ED and men's health issues, and I wish that would go away.

Trust me, I am not perfect with this myself so I get it, and while I can tell you to take it easier on yourself I can't take my own advice. We're all human and have our problems.

 

[CPTWilly]

Even with high doses of Cialis I am losing erections and have penile "numbness."

Cialis gave me good erections whenever I wanted them, but I also experienced the numbness. I got tired of zombie-**** and stopped taking cialis. After a while, the stressor that was the root cause of my ED diminished and I started getting erections without meds, and eventually I got my sensitivity back too.

 

[JakeH]

Day 12 was a bit low mood wise, but sleep was good and I managed to not let my mood ruin my day. The last week has been a good example of what one might refer to as low libido. I could respond to sex somewhat, but it was the furthest thing from my mind--zero interest.

Day 13 has been great, surprisingly so. Managed to workout, wanted to have sex and did on a lower dose of Cialis and generally felt spritely. I hesitated to write this, as I did not want to jinx anything.

Day 14 blood draw in the AM. It is my last day on HCG, so I wanted to get a baseline on T/FT/E2 before starting clomid Friday.

 

[Worried]

Far be it for me to question any protocol. I have had my own issues. But I do not understand why you stopped the test Cip? I have found that doing EOD injections relieved me of the issues you were experiencing. Like you said, it was a huge jolt followed by a let down. Why not even it out?

300 IU of HCG ed make my skin crawl, and gives me all the symptoms you are experiencing. Obviously it did not kick your natural hormones back in as was intended. Or at least it seems. I tryed the stick with a protocol even if it makes you sick approach. Not me anymore. I don't care who it's coming from. If I can't sleep, no libido, panic attacks, and so on I'm gonna stop taking something, or less of something, not add another drug.

I understand, Your move into a depression anxiety sleep aid, for a night or two, but not long-term.


I know I am going to get beat up, because I am questioning a DEFI patent. But I don't get it?

 

[JakeH]

Far be it for me to question any protocol. I have had my own issues. But I do not understand why you stopped the test Cip? I have found that doing EOD injections relieved me of the issues you were experiencing. Like you said, it was a huge jolt followed by a let down. Why not even it out?

300 IU of HCG ed make my skin crawl, and gives me all the symptoms you are experiencing. Obviously it did not kick your natural hormones back in as was intended. Or at least it seems. I tryed the stick with a protocol even if it makes you sick. Not me anymore. I don't care who it's coming from. If I can't sleep, no libido, panic attacks, and so on I'm gonna stop taking something.

I understand, Your move into a depression anxiety sleep aid, for a night or two, but not long-term.


I know I am going to get beat up, because I am questioning a DEFI patent. But I don't get it?

Well, I wanted to try to get off TRT, for multiple reasons:

1) because it did not do much for me, at least over 4 months, which probably was due to bad protocol;
2) it MAY have made me sterile. I had a semen analysis done the week I stopped TRT, and I had 2 sperm, one dead, one alive. I want to have kids, so knowing if I could would be useful. HCG once a week did not maintain fertility.
3) I am not sure I needed to be on TRT. Had the choice been offered by my original doctor, I would have tried a restart before jumping on the needle, if for nothing else as a diagnostic tool (i.e., am I primary, secondary, combo). My life stressors (divorce, cutting 30 pounds, training for competition) have been resolved since then, so who knows what my body is capable of.

The HCG portion is done, and I am starting Clomid tomorrow. If it fails, I will go back on TRT with full confidence that I gave it the old college try.

 

[Worried]

I am going to make an uneducated guess that your e2 is much higher now (after all that HCG). But we'll see. I am looking forward to learning from your experiment.

 

[JakeH]

I am going to make an uneducated guess that your e2 is much higher now, after all that HCG. But we'll see. I looking forward to learning from your experiment.

That was my worry, so I had a blood draw this morning T/FreeT/E2 (sensitive) to try to match symptoms with numbers.

 

[Worried]

What I have learned after a minimum of 100 hrs of reading (in the past month) peoples experiences and other information, is that almost everyone has problems when hcg is in the mix. It can be done, but it's like walking a tightrope. Although some seem to find the right formula. All I know is I feel a lot better without it, and testies hang plenty low.

I have a friend who has been at 200 mg a week of test (only) for 10 years, and feels and looks great. Less can be more in come cases. Even Nelson has agreed to that.

 

[Dr Justin Saya MD]

What I have learned after a minimum of 100 hrs of reading (in the past month) peoples experiences and other information, is that almost everyone has problems when hcg is in the mix. It can be done, but it's like walking a tightrope. Although some seem to find the right formula. All I know is I feel a lot better without it, and testies hang plenty low.

I have a friend who has been at 200 mg a week of test (only) for 10 years, and feels and looks great. Less can be more in come cases. Even Nelson has agreed to that.

I appreciate you've read over 100 hours on the subject, but I've treated over 10,000 TRT patients and I have to disagree with the statement that "almost everyone has problems when HCG is in the mix".

The majority of men (but not all) do better with HCG incorporated or at worst it is a wash. It is simply a matter of appropriate dosing. I can't tell you how many times a patient has felt poorly on straight Tcyp and the addition of HCG was the missing piece of the puzzle for them to be optimized.