Clomid Restart w/Defy

[JakeH]

So, these came in today, one day into my new Test Cyp/HCG protocol. Now the second guessing begins, though I did not feel well taking clomid and AI, and I feel better each additional day since discontinuing it, even without the added Test having taken effect. Seven days after my last pill, and before my first shot, my anxiety had lessened and I was back down to 5mg (from 20mg) a day Cialis with good erections.

It is remarkable that my E2 doubled in 7 days. I had no idea that was possible. (Also, not noted below, my fasting glucose dropped from 104 on Jan 5th to 68 on Feb 24th. I have not changed my diet, but that is a crazy drop.)

If only these numbers were natural. Oh well.

Day 22 of Clomid (last pill on day 20) 25mg Clomid/0.22AI compounded
Total Test_____639 ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free _________13.4 pg/mL 8.6 - 25.1
E2 Sensitive ___20 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0
LH __________9.6 miU/ml HIGH REF: 1.7 to 8.6

Day 14 of Clomid ED 25mg Clomid/0.22AI compounded
Total Test____544 ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free ________9.4 pg/mL 8.7 - 25.1
E2 Sensitive __10.8 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0
LH __________8.7 miU/ml HIGH REF: 1.7 to 8.6

Day 14 HCG 300iu Daily
Total Test____325 ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free ________6.6 pg/mL 8.7 - 25.1
E2 Sensitive __10.6 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0

PRE-TRT
Total Test________232 ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free ____________3.3 pg/mL 8.7 - 25.1
E2 non-Sensitive __39 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0
LH _____________3.3 miU/ml REF: 0.8 to 7.6 <<<different range>>>

 

[johndoesmith]

So, these came in today, one day into my new Test Cyp/HCG protocol. Now the second guessing begins, though I did not feel well taking clomid and AI, and I feel better each additional day since discontinuing it, even without the added Test having taken effect. Seven days after my last pill, and before my first shot, my anxiety had lessened and I was back down to 5mg (from 20mg) a day Cialis with good erections.

It is remarkable that my E2 doubled in 7 days. I had no idea that was possible. (Also, not noted below, my fasting glucose dropped from 104 on Jan 5th to 68 on Feb 24th. I have not changed my diet, but that is a crazy drop.)

If only these numbers were natural. Oh well.

Day 22 of Clomid (last pill on day 20) 25mg Clomid/0.22AI compounded
Total Test_____639 ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free _________13.4 pg/mL 8.6 - 25.1
E2 Sensitive ___20 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0
LH __________9.6 miU/ml HIGH REF: 1.7 to 8.6

Day 14 of Clomid ED 25mg Clomid/0.22AI compounded
Total Test____544 ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free ________9.4 pg/mL 8.7 - 25.1
E2 Sensitive __10.8 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0
LH __________8.7 miU/ml HIGH REF: 1.7 to 8.6

Day 14 HCG 300iu Daily
Total Test____325 ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free ________6.6 pg/mL 8.7 - 25.1
E2 Sensitive __10.6 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0

PRE-TRT
Total Test________232 ng/dL 348 - 1197
Free ____________3.3 pg/mL 8.7 - 25.1
E2 non-Sensitive __39 pg/mL 8.0 - 35.0
LH _____________3.3 miU/ml REF: 0.8 to 7.6 <<<different range>>>

Total testosterone doubling would explain E2 doubling.

 

[Disco41]

I just posted on my clomid experience over the last 2 weeks. I did not take penile sensitivity into account as i reported my response. So far, my penile sensitivity has been improved, which may correlate with desire, hard to tell which is which in my mind....but for me they go together so it does not matter Sorry the clomid has not been beneficial for you! For my past 2 weeks, it has been a blessing symptom whise.

Day 21 Clomid/Day 22 No Clomid

The last two days have been blue mentally, even with 7+ hours of sleep each night. My boss and coworkers have noticed the change in my output and demeanor, without knowing the whys.

Discussions with Defy have led to a go/no-go decision point of staying on Clomid, due to my testes not responding strongly with an LH at upper levels of the range, which does not bode well for going natural, thereby, in my estimation, relegating me to a form of life-long therapy (Clomid or HCG mono or TRT).

Physically, things are not going well from a workout/recovery standpoint, and my erections have required 20mg of Cialis to work. Also, it still feels like I am constantly wearing a condom, because penile sensitivity is reduced.

Just to take the what-if off the table for me, I got another blood draw today to see if any surprises pop-up, as the Test Cyp/HCG will not be here until next week anyway. However, even if my free T has bumped a couple of points, the symptoms have only worsened over the last 44 days, so that would sway me back toward TRT/HCG if I am going to be on an adjunct therapy for the next 40 years. I guess that is the danger of feeling what life is like at 1200-900 Total T and a Free T at 30-24, and then going back down to low "normal."

 

[JakeH]

Total testosterone doubling would explain E2 doubling.

A change in T/E2 of 544/10.8 to 639/20 is not a doubling of T. I found it interesting that E2 could double in 7 days, even when on daily 0.22 AI, but a discussion with Melissa reiterated the power of Clomid in that regard, which is why they have to be so aggressive from day one with AI.

 

[JakeH]

I just posted on my clomid experience over the last 2 weeks. I did not take penile sensitivity into account as i reported my response. So far, my penile sensitivity has been improved, which may correlate with desire, hard to tell which is which in my mind....but for me they go together so it does not matter Sorry the clomid has not been beneficial for you! For my past 2 weeks, it has been a blessing symptom whise.

From your other post it seems that you are still injecting testosterone and stacking Clomid? According to many posts on here, I do not think that works, as the Clomid cannot overcome the HTPA shutdown.

See here: https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?3662-Combining-Testosterone-and-Clomid

 

[johndoesmith]

A change in T/E2 of 544/10.8 to 639/20 is not a doubling of T. I found it interesting that E2 could double in 7 days, even when on daily 0.22 AI, but a discussion with Melissa reiterated the power of Clomid in that regard, which is why they have to be so aggressive from day one with AI.

you're right. I looked at the wrong days. I see now that E2 doubled after stopping the clomid and arimidex. That makes sense, because clomid has a longer half life than arimidex.

 

[Worried]

From your other post it seems that you are still injecting testosterone and stacking Clomid? According to many posts on here, I do not think that works, as the Clomid cannot overcome the HTPA shutdown.

See here: https://www.excelmale.com/forum/showthread.php?3662-Combining-Testosterone-and-Clomid

Please continue to make updates. I am keenly interested in your progress. If you start a new thread since changing regimens, please let us know.

 

[Disco41]

Please continue to make updates. I am keenly interested in your progress. If you start a new thread since changing regimens, please let us know.

I am, test cyp 200mg/wk. Taking .25 clomid EOD. I added Deca Durabolin almost 2 wks ago. Anyway, from reading on here and others, it does seem that HCG does the trick. The clomid lovers seem to be an outlier, at this time. IMHO, shutdown and suppression are not analogous. Shutdown would make the HPTA dead. Suppressed would still keep it alive for basic functions that it needs to do. And that is what i think happens with TRT/HRT. b/c Clomid has made a radical difference for me. Plus when you think about other roles of HPTA, if it was "shutdown", we would not have HGH, et al....

 

[AJ]

A change in T/E2 of 544/10.8 to 639/20 is not a doubling of T. I found it interesting that E2 could double in 7 days, even when on daily 0.22 AI, but a discussion with Melissa reiterated the power of Clomid in that regard, which is why they have to be so aggressive from day one with AI.

Thank you so much Jake for logging your progress. It has helped me gain so much knowledge.