Can estrogen crash cause desensitization/knock out of the estrogen receptor - lets discuss!

[Coconutz]

Hey all, I’m coming from a Reddit thread/discord. A guy (Sweaty_Literature_69) posted a theory about how AI induced low E2 symptoms, PFS and PSSD are pretty much the same. It all comes down to estrogen receptors being desensitized. And it’s not oversensitized receptors leading to high E2 symptoms. A clear indicator of this is aching/painful joints. High E2 does not typically show this symptom. Emotional numbness is another one. Blood work is all normal, but your estrogen receptors are so downregulated that you feel low E2.

How did this happen? In the AI cases people deprived their receptors of E2 leading to estrogen receptor upregulation. And then when you come off the AI it leads to a sudden burst of estrogen, downregulating your receptors. Your estrogen stays up/normal but your receptors’ sensitivity don’t change because of a lack of rapid hormonal change. And then it gets stuck. Maybe it’s a genetic thing or maybe it’s due to how quickly the estrogen came back. Regardless, the victims here suffer from estrogen receptor persistent down regulation.

How do we fix this? We have had proof from this very thread. You need to take estrogen directly. You need to abruptly raise your estrogen (also taking T and HCG to protect androgen function) for a few months. This will kickstart your receptors, allowing them to self regulate and regulate other receptors. @nurselyfe please try this.

THIS!!!!! Its been a while since ive a reported of my last year supplementing exogenous estrogens. I took Aromasin for years while bodybuilding, and also on trt doses. I ws messed up for years not realizing it, ALL WHILE HAVING PERFECT BLOODWORK. I cannot take ANY testosterone without feeling absolute shit now. Exponentially worse as the dose increases. Taking estrogen allows me to take as much testosterone as i want again. But i DONT want because i get higher blood pressure from higher test levels now at 42. My bodybuilding days are over. I was just seeing if e2 supplementation allowed me to.

I found for every 100mg of testosterone, i need 2mg oral estradiol valerate, 1mg am, 1mg pm. I find the half life is too short to dose once daily for me, so 2x daily. Low SHBG.. Ive tried injectable estradiol valerate as well, but it just doesnt feel the same as oral. Probably due to rock solid e2 levels. I have 17b Estradiol cream too for topical administration, which i havnt used much. Oral is like a potent espresso in the morning. I feel energy, libido, and positivity in minutes. Its like my brain turns back on after wards. Im able to supplement progesterone again and use scrotal cream, which destroyed me before E2 supplementation. The BEST, and most important part of my trt now, is Estradiol valerate.

About a month ago i stopped taking it for 2 weeks to see if my body produces any estrogen on its own again. NOPE. Slowly but surely im fucked again in 2 weeks time. MY tell tale sign of low e2 are night sweats, cant sleep at night yet sleep all day, frequent urination, gyno, ACNE, dry skin, bodyfat gain, no morning erections, and a prostate the size of a baseball. The emotional decay makes all that look like a walk in the park. I am literally terrified of stupid shit, emotional and cry over thinking the whole worlds out to get me. Anxiety isnt the word for it. Straight up terror of everything.

Ive also experimented with seeing what HIGH estrogen feels like by taking 2-3x more e2. High e2 feels pretty good for gym performance. EXTREME mental acuity, much fuller muscles from higher water retention, ZEROOOOOOOO libido but fully functioning dick with concrete busting boners. cardio definitely takes a hit when im training jiu itsu. i have endless energy ALL day and literally have to anesthetize myself to sleep. However, im an insufferable confrontational asshole with EVERYBODY that crosses my path when my e2 is too high.. Im not sure if USADA tests their male athletes for it, but Exogenous estradiol is absolutely a performance enhancer with high enough testosterone levels.

That said, and i dont care if yall flame me, but i havnt tested my hormone levels in years other than shbg which is always 15-20. While in a state of agony from misaligned hormones, shelling out thousands of dollars to clowns in white coats that dont even remember my name, and trying to keep my blood work on paper looking a certain way, made my condition much much worse and borderline suicidal. I for sure pull bloods for CBC and things like that, but not hormones. I feel like a million bucks right now, and wouldnt change it if somebody held a gun to my head. Has anybody ever been in the 'sweet spot honeymoon phase' for almost a year?? I have for the first time 8 years, and no longer consider it the honeymoon phase. Its from the estrogen. period. this is my protocol IM daily injestions

AM:
25mg test enanthate
10mg test prop
50mg scrotal cream.
50mg dhea oral
2mg Estradiol Valerate oral
1 grain Armor thyroid

PM
50mg pregnenelone scrotal cream
5mg Progesterone scrotal cream
2mg Estradiol Valerate oral

Im a firm believer in NOT having super stable hormone levels. Our bodies have a circadian rhythm for a reason. Being on straight enanthate makes me feel so dull and libido much less than with prop/cream. I absolutely feel the cream, and prop leave my body late afternoon. Which is perfect, because i like to go to bed by 8-9pm. If i have a date that night just apply 50mg more scrotal cream and im up all night ready to wear out the Misses.

As we all know, trt is not a one size fit all. This is just what works for me.

 

[zancek0]

I'm also recovering from aromasin induced E2 crash. Next week I'm starting TRT+ HCG in attempt to fully recover from it. I'll update this in a month or so.

I'd also like to hear more recovery stories, regardless of the specifics of intervention.
Administering E2 along with TRT sounds promising so if anyone else recovered with that, I'd gladly read about it.

 

[zancek0]

THIS!!!!! Its been a while since ive a reported of my last year supplementing exogenous estrogens. I took Aromasin for years while bodybuilding, and also on trt doses. I ws messed up for years not realizing it, ALL WHILE HAVING PERFECT BLOODWORK. I cannot take ANY testosterone without feeling absolute shit now. Exponentially worse as the dose increases. Taking estrogen allows me to take as much testosterone as i want again. But i DONT want because i get higher blood pressure from higher test levels now at 42. My bodybuilding days are over. I was just seeing if e2 supplementation allowed me to.

I found for every 100mg of testosterone, i need 2mg oral estradiol valerate, 1mg am, 1mg pm. I find the half life is too short to dose once daily for me, so 2x daily. Low SHBG.. Ive tried injectable estradiol valerate as well, but it just doesnt feel the same as oral. Probably due to rock solid e2 levels. I have 17b Estradiol cream too for topical administration, which i havnt used much. Oral is like a potent espresso in the morning. I feel energy, libido, and positivity in minutes. Its like my brain turns back on after wards. Im able to supplement progesterone again and use scrotal cream, which destroyed me before E2 supplementation. The BEST, and most important part of my trt now, is Estradiol valerate.

About a month ago i stopped taking it for 2 weeks to see if my body produces any estrogen on its own again. NOPE. Slowly but surely im fucked again in 2 weeks time. MY tell tale sign of low e2 are night sweats, cant sleep at night yet sleep all day, frequent urination, gyno, ACNE, dry skin, bodyfat gain, no morning erections, and a prostate the size of a baseball. The emotional decay makes all that look like a walk in the park. I am literally terrified of stupid shit, emotional and cry over thinking the whole worlds out to get me. Anxiety isnt the word for it. Straight up terror of everything.

Ive also experimented with seeing what HIGH estrogen feels like by taking 2-3x more e2. High e2 feels pretty good for gym performance. EXTREME mental acuity, much fuller muscles from higher water retention, ZEROOOOOOOO libido but fully functioning dick with concrete busting boners. cardio definitely takes a hit when im training jiu itsu. i have endless energy ALL day and literally have to anesthetize myself to sleep. However, im an insufferable confrontational asshole with EVERYBODY that crosses my path when my e2 is too high.. Im not sure if USADA tests their male athletes for it, but Exogenous estradiol is absolutely a performance enhancer with high enough testosterone levels.

That said, and i dont care if yall flame me, but i havnt tested my hormone levels in years other than shbg which is always 15-20. While in a state of agony from misaligned hormones, shelling out thousands of dollars to clowns in white coats that dont even remember my name, and trying to keep my blood work on paper looking a certain way, made my condition much much worse and borderline suicidal. I for sure pull bloods for CBC and things like that, but not hormones. I feel like a million bucks right now, and wouldnt change it if somebody held a gun to my head. Has anybody ever been in the 'sweet spot honeymoon phase' for almost a year?? I have for the first time 8 years, and no longer consider it the honeymoon phase. Its from the estrogen. period. this is my protocol IM daily injestions

AM:
25mg test enanthate
10mg test prop
50mg scrotal cream.
50mg dhea oral
2mg Estradiol Valerate oral
1 grain Armor thyroid

PM
50mg pregnenelone scrotal cream
5mg Progesterone scrotal cream
2mg Estradiol Valerate oral

Im a firm believer in NOT having super stable hormone levels. Our bodies have a circadian rhythm for a reason. Being on straight enanthate makes me feel so dull and libido much less than with prop/cream. I absolutely feel the cream, and prop leave my body late afternoon. Which is perfect, because i like to go to bed by 8-9pm. If i have a date that night just apply 50mg more scrotal cream and im up all night ready to wear out the Misses.

As we all know, trt is not a one size fit all. This is just what works for me.

In case you see this: do you take oral E2 sublingually or just swallow it immediately?

 

[microbeast]

I was suffering from low e2 for years from abusing exemestane while bodybuilding. . I've been experimenting with injectable and oral estradiol valerate for the last 2 months
Holy shit. Thats was the missing piece. It's like a light just switched on in my brain. No more night sweats, libido waaaaaaay back. I dropped 10lbs of water weight in a week and am lean as I've been for a while. And get this! My minor gyno lumps are slowly going away. From taking ESTROGEN!!. I literally feel like I'm on cycle on my usual 200mg test E. My muscles are so full all the time, and all I've been doing for 6 months is cardio and yoga. Im still trying to find my perfect dose, as I feel I can use WAY less test now. I've kept my trt as high as 300 just to try to get more estradiol in my system. I'm not touching anything for a while. I feel too good to try to change anything right now.

I think yall should just find some estrogen and Give it a try. Its cheap and.nothing to lose at this point. It aint gonna hurt ya with such a short half life. 2mg oral EV for 200mg of test E works for me. Didn't take the injection long enough to let it build up in my blood to form a concrete opinion.

Where can I get estrogen? I'm severely crashed just a mess.

 

[Cooper997]

@Coconutz Why are you supplementing with prenonelone and progesterone?

 

[zack_92]

Hey everyone - I'm dealing with the same issues. Here's my story:

Despite having low SHBG and needing sub 100mg/week doses of testosterone, I foolishly increased my testosterone cyp intake too much and then crashed e2 to undetectable levels for a few weeks through indiscriminate AI use back in April 2021. I had almost all the issues listed by others barring libido problems. Though a lot of symptoms improved leading up to Dec 2021, I hit a plateau and decided to try a clomid restart but had to stop in just 2 weeks due to vision issues and dead libido. Strangely, I got the same crashed e2 feeling for a few nights after I restarted my injections and a lot of my old problems such as sensitivity to phytoestrogenic foods (soy flax etc) resurfaced. I would also experience a dead libido, mood swings and hair changes each time I ate these phytoestrogenic foods.

However, a lot of my symptoms improved considerably between Jan 2022 and Dec 2022. I slowly regained my lost confidence and started seeing glimpses of my former self again! Temporarily switching to a different ester/concentration of testosterone for a month in Sept 2022 affected my libido and caused some of the symptoms to relapse for some reason, but things became fine again once I got back on my old ester. So much so that I actually experienced high e2 symptoms (such as facial acne and bloating) after an eternity this year in March!

In place of AI, I decided to reduce my dose to control the high e2 symptoms (went from 100 to 70mg/week) for a couple of weeks but that didn't change anything. Out of desperation, I reduced it to 60 for a couple of weeks but that affected my libido. I raised my dose to ~85mg in mid April but for some reason my libido didn't return. My high e2 symptoms gradually disappeared, as did my happy mood. I started experiencing insomnia, anhedonia (lost interest in my hobbies/music/TV/movies etc) and became a recluse. My hair which had considerably recovered since the initial crash became dry and rough again. Last week, I experienced a similar "crash" like back in 2021/early 2022 with severe anxiety/panic attacks/derealization for a few days DESPITE NOT BEING ON ANY AI FOR OVER 2 YEARS. Things have improved over this week but my libido is still gone, my mood is still sullen, everything feels like a chore and I'm barely sleeping 3-4 hours each night. I'm awaiting lab work but I'm certain things will show up fine.

Really unsure what triggered this and not sure how to proceed from here. Part of me wants to continue the current protocol hoping I'll be back to how I was feeling a few weeks ago soon enough since I haven't really taken any AI, but part of me just doesn't see the ROI of TRT anymore. I'm wondering if a hard reset of my HPTA is the answer, but scared of trying SERMs since they block e2. Thoughts?

 

[RAS]

This whole story... how did you not end up figuring out you have overtly sensitised your E2 receptors, quite the opposite from what you are actually speculating. As a result you are constantly cruising in a state of extremely high Estradiol, which actually leads to every symptom you describe, some through estrogen dominance over progesterone (scalp hair loss), others through estrogen dominance over androgens (fatigue, weakness, libido, sexual issues). Estrogen even suppresses sebum production in sufficient amounts, which is why contraceptives help with acne in females - although roaccutane goes the opposite way and attacks androgens. It's also why your brain function is intact and you can keep being a straight A student. Proper Low E would absolutely demolish your ability to study, seeing all the cognitive effects estrogen has on the brain.
And it is in fact the only theory that explains why the higher your E2 goes, the worse you feel.
I've also read about estrogen receptors becoming oversensitive after starvation in breast cancer patients, at which case they used another medication to reset their sensitivity, so there's that to back it up - I'm sure i can find adequate evidence with a bit of looking around. You simply went too hard with the AI, starved your receptors and caused them to reach oversensitivity.

if anyone from this thread is still here and has similar issues, let's discuss this. But you have to be feeling worse each time your E2 goes up. If you're not, then you might actually have low E2, or bad T/E ratio. But let's talk about this anyway because I'm going through a similar Estrogen situation.

Honestly, the comments trying to make this guy seem crazy or that he's imagining and making everything up, are the worst thing one can say to another, and just a clear demonstration of people who have never had something go seriously, seriously wrong in their lives. You cannot fathom the hell of being chronically in this state. Of having everything robbed away from you and not even knowing how or why. Completely out of whack estrogen will seriously make you wish you were D E A D. It might as well be your soul itself. And then people try and tell you you're making it up... Jesus, better not say anything at all.

Question what drug did they give to breast cancer patients, to reset their sensitivity?

 

[RAS]

Where can I get estrogen? I'm severely crashed just a mess.

There are a lot of sites out there that you can order Estrogen at. Most of them being outside the US

 

[RAS]

Hello All - I have posted about this in the past, and have talked with others who too are suffering from low E2 symptoms after a crash (or from PAWD from Reddit Post). On the Reddit thread there is a lot of talk about using estrogen, now a lot of people on reddit crashed due to SSRIs and other causes. I think that they way you crashed your estrogen has an impact on what you can use to help (JMO).

I crashed my estrogen in 2019 to undetectable levels, and from then on anything that can or could lower estrogen would make my symptoms worse. Despite having estrogen levels in range or even a little high the symptoms never went away. I tried everything, The more testosterone I took the worse I felt, I tried single doses, to micro doses, you name it. Went to 2 different Endo's, 3 TRT clinics, no-one could help. I saw Coconutz posts and found that write up on reddit. So I tried Estriol Valerate, 1st in oral form then in injections. for injections I was using 2mg am and 2mg pm. I noticed a great improvement in symptoms. I was using EV for approx 60 days, before I hit a wall. I got anxiety from the excess estrogen, and started getting a few other high estrogen signs. Now my estrogen levels are through the roof, or at least they were on 6/6. I stopped EV injections on June 15th, the anxiety has all but gone away, and I restarted Testosterone, last week. So there is something to adding external estrogen, but there is also other things to consider. One person who also crashed their estrogen, swears by Wellbutrin. Others claimed it made their symptoms worse.

 

[Gman86]

Hello All - I have posted about this in the past, and have talked with others who too are suffering from low E2 symptoms after a crash (or from PAWD from Reddit Post). On the Reddit thread there is a lot of talk about using estrogen, now a lot of people on reddit crashed due to SSRIs and other causes. I think that they way you crashed your estrogen has an impact on what you can use to help (JMO).

I crashed my estrogen in 2019 to undetectable levels, and from then on anything that can or could lower estrogen would make my symptoms worse. Despite having estrogen levels in range or even a little high the symptoms never went away. I tried everything, The more testosterone I took the worse I felt, I tried single doses, to micro doses, you name it. Went to 2 different Endo's, 3 TRT clinics, no-one could help. I saw Coconutz posts and found that write up on reddit. So I tried Estriol Valerate, 1st in oral form then in injections. for injections I was using 2mg am and 2mg pm. I noticed a great improvement in symptoms. I was using EV for approx 60 days, before I hit a wall. I got anxiety from the excess estrogen, and started getting a few other high estrogen signs. Now my estrogen levels are through the roof, or at least they were on 6/6. I stopped EV injections on June 15th, the anxiety has all but gone away, and I restarted Testosterone, last week. So there is something to adding external estrogen, but there is also other things to consider. One person who also crashed their estrogen, swears by Wellbutrin. Others claimed it made their symptoms worse.

Interesting. It sounds like in ur case that it was more a matter of fixing ur test to estrogen ratio, more so than simply getting more estrogen in ur system. Crashing ur E2 may have possibly altered ur estrogen conversion rate, from the sounds of it. Do u think there’s a chance that using exogenous E2 has reverted ur estrogen conversion rate back to converting at a higher rate, similar to before u crashed ur E2?

Another thing to consider is that E2 in a blood test doesn’t reflect how much is in ur brain, or other parts of the body. It’s simply testing the spill over that’s currently in ur blood. So it’s not as simple as saying “my blood test shows E2 in range, therefore it doesn’t make sense that I’m experiencing low or high E2 symptoms in specific areas” Like mental effects, sexual effects, and/ or effects in my joints. There could be much different levels of estrogen in certain parts of the body, dependent on what ur seeing in spill over in a blood test. Then there’s also the issue of receptor sensitivity. The same amount of estrogen in a person‘s system can result in different effects based on how sensitive, or not sensitive, their estrogen receptors are to the estrogen that attaches to that specific receptor site on the cell

and I guess in theory is could make sense that Wellbutrin helped that person. Estrogen does play a big role in neurotransmitter production. So if a person has an issue with producing enough estrogen endogenously, and consequently possibly not making enough endogenous dopamine, I can see how Wellbutrin could make them feel better

 

[RAS]

Interesting. It sounds like in ur case that it was more a matter of fixing ur test to estrogen ratio, more so than simply getting more estrogen in ur system. Crashing ur E2 may have possibly altered ur estrogen conversion rate, from the sounds of it. Do u think there’s a chance that using exogenous E2 has reverted ur estrogen conversion rate back to converting at a higher rate, similar to before u crashed ur E2?

Another thing to consider is that E2 in a blood test doesn’t reflect how much is in ur brain, or other parts of the body. It’s simply testing the spill over that’s currently in ur blood. So it’s not as simple as saying “my blood test shows E2 in range, therefore it doesn’t make sense that I’m experiencing low or high E2 symptoms in specific areas” Like mental effects, sexual effects, and/ or effects in my joints. There could be much different levels of estrogen in certain parts of the body, dependent on what ur seeing in spill over in a blood test. Then there’s also the issue of receptor sensitivity. The same amount of estrogen in a person‘s system can result in different effects based on how sensitive, or not sensitive, their estrogen receptors are to the estrogen that attaches to that specific receptor site on the cell

and I guess in theory is could make sense that Wellbutrin helped that person. Estrogen does play a big role in neurotransmitter production. So if a person has an issue with producing enough estrogen endogenously, and consequently possibly not making enough endogenous dopamine, I can see how Wellbutrin could make them feel better

I don't know if you could say that it was just adjusting the ratio. Before my crash my E2 was usually around 10 and total test was around 1200, and I felt great at that, After my crash my levels went back up, and even went higher than before, but I still had the same symptoms. I lowered my test till I was taking nothing. I felt a little better, but they never went away like they did with adding external estrogen. My total test levels went down to 38, and my e2 was 11, and I was still miserable. I will say that I have low SHBG, around 5 and has been low for a long time. Now when I started external estrogen in April, it was like a light went on, and I stared to feel better, so I do not think it was a conversion issue as I was still converting, but more of a estrogen sensitivity in the receptors.

 

[RAS]

So I was also thinking... What causes one crash can be equally important to finding a solution. In Coconuts case he used Exemestane which is an irreversible, steroidal aromatase inactivator that works by binding to and and inactivating aromatase, an effect that is known as 'suicide inhibition'. This prevents aromatase from converting androgens into estrogen and cuts of the supply of estrogen that the breast cancer cells need to grow. So that may explain why he has to take external estrogen all the time, I crashed mine using Anastrozole, which my understanding that it lowers estrogen levels, does not kill aromatase..

Just a thought

 

[bixt]

I crashed mine using Anastrozole, which my understanding that it lowers estrogen levels, does not kill aromatase.

Supposedly after the anastrozole clears your system, all of the the bound E2 is then re-released, leading to extra E2 in the system VS before the AI (known as the E2 "rebound").

So unlike the suicide inhibitors, I wonder what is the mechanism is for the low E2 (besides the receptor issue proposed) after anastrozole cessation.

 

[TRicker]

MY tell tale sign of low e2 are night sweats, cant sleep at night yet sleep all day, frequent urination, gyno, ACNE, dry skin, bodyfat gain, no morning erections, and a prostate the size of a baseball.

I know a lot of low vs high estrogen symptoms are very similar, but it's weird that low estrogen in you causes gyno. I've only ever heard of gyno with high estrogen or high prolactin. Do you personally think it's a receptor issue, or that you just don't produce adequate amounts of estrogen anymore?
However, I experienced a bit of gyno with low estrogen as well, and could not figure it out. I took too large of a dose of HCG for fertility purposes, experienced some gyno (I certainly know the difference between sensitivity and gyno), then took 1mg of anastrozole for 7 days in a row. My sensitive estrogen came back below 5, and I still had the gyno pain. Tamoxifen or cabergoline didn't help either. I stayed on trt, and only time helped it dissipate. It's very odd.

 

[Gman86]

I know a lot of low vs high estrogen symptoms are very similar, but it's weird that low estrogen in you causes gyno. I've only ever heard of gyno with high estrogen or high prolactin. Do you personally think it's a receptor issue, or that you just don't produce adequate amounts of estrogen anymore?
However, I experienced a bit of gyno with low estrogen as well, and could not figure it out. I took too large of a dose of HCG for fertility purposes, experienced some gyno (I certainly know the difference between sensitivity and gyno), then took 1mg of anastrozole for 7 days in a row. My sensitive estrogen came back below 5, and I still had the gyno pain. Tamoxifen or cabergoline didn't help either. I stayed on trt, and only time helped it dissipate. It's very odd.

Did u have any nipple itching when ur gyno was forming?

I only ever experienced gyno forming when I was on HCG mono. Nipples were extremely sensitive and sooooo itchy prior to the gyno starting to form. I used to scratch them until they would bleed

 

[TRicker]

Did u have any nipple itching when ur gyno was forming?

I only ever experienced gyno forming when I was on HCG mono. Nipples were extremely sensitive and sooooo itchy prior to the gyno starting to form. I used to scratch them until they would bleed

Way back in my TRT journey, the itching/sensitive nipples were a warning sign to me that gyno was just starting, which anastrozole helped with. However now, I believe I have some residual gyno lurking (very tiny spot behind my nipple), and it is painful right away when it starts acting up. A large single dose of HCG is what started the last episode, and it took a long time for it to subside, but not completely go away. With TRT and moderate doses of hcg, I haven't had many problems with gyno that didn't resolve with a small amount of anastrozole.

 

[zack_92]

Hey everyone - I'm dealing with the same issues. Here's my story:

Despite having low SHBG and needing sub 100mg/week doses of testosterone, I foolishly increased my testosterone cyp intake too much and then crashed e2 to undetectable levels for a few weeks through indiscriminate AI use back in April 2021. I had almost all the issues listed by others barring libido problems. Though a lot of symptoms improved leading up to Dec 2021, I hit a plateau and decided to try a clomid restart but had to stop in just 2 weeks due to vision issues and dead libido. Strangely, I got the same crashed e2 feeling for a few nights after I restarted my injections and a lot of my old problems such as sensitivity to phytoestrogenic foods (soy flax etc) resurfaced. I would also experience a dead libido, mood swings and hair changes each time I ate these phytoestrogenic foods.

However, a lot of my symptoms improved considerably between Jan 2022 and Dec 2022. I slowly regained my lost confidence and started seeing glimpses of my former self again! Temporarily switching to a different ester/concentration of testosterone for a month in Sept 2022 affected my libido and caused some of the symptoms to relapse for some reason, but things became fine again once I got back on my old ester. So much so that I actually experienced high e2 symptoms (such as facial acne and bloating) after an eternity this year in March!

In place of AI, I decided to reduce my dose to control the high e2 symptoms (went from 100 to 70mg/week) for a couple of weeks but that didn't change anything. Out of desperation, I reduced it to 60 for a couple of weeks but that affected my libido. I raised my dose to ~85mg in mid April but for some reason my libido didn't return. My high e2 symptoms gradually disappeared, as did my happy mood. I started experiencing insomnia, anhedonia (lost interest in my hobbies/music/TV/movies etc) and became a recluse. My hair which had considerably recovered since the initial crash became dry and rough again. Last week, I experienced a similar "crash" like back in 2021/early 2022 with severe anxiety/panic attacks/derealization for a few days DESPITE NOT BEING ON ANY AI FOR OVER 2 YEARS. Things have improved over this week but my libido is still gone, my mood is still sullen, everything feels like a chore and I'm barely sleeping 3-4 hours each night. I'm awaiting lab work but I'm certain things will show up fine.

Really unsure what triggered this and not sure how to proceed from here. Part of me wants to continue the current protocol hoping I'll be back to how I was feeling a few weeks ago soon enough since I haven't really taken any AI, but part of me just doesn't see the ROI of TRT anymore. I'm wondering if a hard reset of my HPTA is the answer, but scared of trying SERMs since they block e2. Thoughts?

Just wanted to give a quick update to this. Turns out I was on bunk UGL testosterone for nearly 3 months (Mid March - Mid June). All my bloodwork came in below pre-TRT levels except AM Cortisol which was very high. Been back on legit testosterone for almost 6 weeks now, but unfortunately looks those 3 months further aggravated my issues. Doesn't feel like I'm on TRT at all.

I even added 500iu HCG EOD which worked very well during my first crash back in April 2021 but this time its not helping at all! I can feel my testicles plump up but that's about it.

All the problems I listed above continue. I barely have any erections anymore, my skin is drier than before, my food sensitivities have worsened, my frequent urination problem is back, I now get crazy palpitations and experience strange vibrations/pressure in my head after taking my thyroid medication every morning. I'm in a shaky, constant fight/flight state for most of the day. Barely sleeping 4-5 hrs a night.

Things have gotten so bad that I'm taking a long break from work to be with family.

 

[bixt]

Just wanted to give a quick update to this. Turns out I was on bunk UGL testosterone for nearly 3 months (Mid March - Mid June)

Bunk = not containing the steroid its meant to be \ containing another steroid
Fake = faking a brand, UGL or pharma

Now bunk test does very rarely happen, its best to browse steroid forums and see which brands are the most popular in your country in order to avoid bunk UGL products. Stick to brands which are long established and have a good rep. Get good pics of those vials and compare to what you buy to avoid fakes (the good UGL brands are faked, further compounding the problem). Never buy new brands which have just appeared on the market, no matter if the price is tempting.

That said, it's extremely hard to buy bunk UGL test. Test raws are dirt cheap, its the other exotic steroids which are more likely to be bunk (but again this can be avoided when sticking to established brands). Even when those expensive steroids are bunk, its usually substituted with...test

I know this doesn't solve your problem, just putting it out there so others can hopefully avoid this issue.

 

[swolg8r]

Hello All - I have posted about this in the past, and have talked with others who too are suffering from low E2 symptoms after a crash (or from PAWD from Reddit Post). On the Reddit thread there is a lot of talk about using estrogen, now a lot of people on reddit crashed due to SSRIs and other causes. I think that they way you crashed your estrogen has an impact on what you can use to help (JMO).

I crashed my estrogen in 2019 to undetectable levels, and from then on anything that can or could lower estrogen would make my symptoms worse. Despite having estrogen levels in range or even a little high the symptoms never went away. I tried everything, The more testosterone I took the worse I felt, I tried single doses, to micro doses, you name it. Went to 2 different Endo's, 3 TRT clinics, no-one could help. I saw Coconutz posts and found that write up on reddit. So I tried Estriol Valerate, 1st in oral form then in injections. for injections I was using 2mg am and 2mg pm. I noticed a great improvement in symptoms. I was using EV for approx 60 days, before I hit a wall. I got anxiety from the excess estrogen, and started getting a few other high estrogen signs. Now my estrogen levels are through the roof, or at least they were on 6/6. I stopped EV injections on June 15th, the anxiety has all but gone away, and I restarted Testosterone, last week. So there is something to adding external estrogen, but there is also other things to consider. One person who also crashed their estrogen, swears by Wellbutrin. Others claimed it made their symptoms worse.

@RAS : Have you seen any improvement since you hit that wall?? I'm of the opinion that if the large doses of estrogen were going to reset/stimulate the estrogen receptors in the brain/sexual organs, you may start to see an improvement (granted your trt dose is dialed in and your estrogen levels have fallen back to normal).

 

[RAS]

@RAS : Have you seen any improvement since you hit that wall?? I'm of the opinion that if the large doses of estrogen were going to reset/stimulate the estrogen receptors in the brain/sexual organs, you may start to see an improvement (granted your trt dose is dialed in and your estrogen levels have fallen back to normal).

With E levels as high as mine were the last test I took one would think I would have raging acne and gyno by now. I have been off of external e for 6 weeks. I have restarted using Test, 15mg EOD, and I have seen many improvements, most of my low E2 symptoms have gone away for the most part. My appetite is back, dry skin is gone, libido is coming back, I have muscle soreness again. till have a slight bit of stomach issues, but not nearly as bad as before. Brain fog has gotten better, general mood has been enhanced, I can drink coffee again. some muscle twitching, and fatigue in the AM. The E has caused some light acne on my back, and itchy nipples, my sleep is still not great, I only get up once in the middle of the night now, unlike before where I would be up and down all night. One very disturbing issue, is that my face gets red as hell, like I out in the Mexico sun all day with no sun block, but the redness stops at my hair line. I noticed this after a few weeks of using external E. before this I had a red patch if you will across the bridge of my nose.