What We Should Be Eating

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sammmy said:
It also kills me that the plant based diet included only "egg whites" and "low fat milk". The same old non-scientific nonsense perpetuated!

Apparently it hasn't occurred to them that eating egg yolks does not increase cholesterol, nor that the fat in milk does not drive diabetes of heart disease.
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This is exactly why I feel like most studies/ clinic trials are either flawed or corrupt. Corruption is obv done on purpose, but being flawed is usually not intentional. It tends to happened due to lack of specific knowledge of whoever is running/ setting up these studies/ clinical trials

But it’s just unfortunate that most studies/ clinic trials are either flawed, and/ or corrupt, because people tend to take the conclusions of these things, and run with them, without assessing if the information in their conclusion is even valid/ worth entertaining as facts/ the truth. And then don’t even get me started on articles, which are just opinions of the author.

But to ur points, people have to realize that it’s been proven that eating Oreos will lower LDL. Does this mean that eating Oreos lowers a persons risk of all cardiovascular disease? I’ll let whoever’s reading this answer that lol. Also, fasting has been shown to raise cholesterol levels. People have to realize that even tho cholesterol from food and cholesterol levels in our blood are the same word, consuming cholesterol has much less of an impact on our blood cholesterol levels than most people think. Trust me, I know it can confusing, I totally get it lol.

And ya, everyone should know, at this point, that healthy fats do not cause any type of cardiovascular disease. Our ancestors consumed mostly animal protein and fats throughout 99.99% of our history as humans. If fats caused cardiovascular disease, we would have died out as a species a long long time ago. There’s a reason they can’t find any signs of cardiovascular disease prior to agriculture becoming a common practice. Like I’ve said many times before, common sense and critical thinking skills will take u very far, in regards to understanding/ making sense of all the information out there on diet/ nutrition. Without having good common sense/ critical thinking skills, when it comes to understanding diet/ nutrition/ optimal health, ur pretty much screwed lol, imho
 
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Seagal said:
Here it seems a daily topic ;)
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I know, it really does lol. Think it’s just cuz this is a forum where people talk mostly about problems they’re experiencing, and I understand that they’re mostly looking for advice related to how they can adjust their protocols, in order to resolve these problems, but there’s just too much carryover, between what’s related to hormones, and what’s related to every other process in the body, to not talk about every possible way to put the body in a state of optimal health, in order to resolve issues people may be having. Diet being a HUGE component of that.
Seagal said:
Well, we don't know it by means of a scientific study.
Do we really need fibers or better said, does everybody need fibers.
Strange thing, I 'cured' my Pylori symptoms by eating cereal with milk and whey protein. Everything else what I normally eat (meat based diet) caused bloating. I was surprised too. Maybe it was the fiber. Actually your lectures on 'unhealthy' food let me to experiment with my eating and that's how I figured out that the cereal was the food my stomach/gut tolerated very well under that circumstances.
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Very interesting, about curing ur pylori symptoms by consuming cereal, milk and whey protein. Only thing I can think of is that u may have cut out whatever food(s) were causing ur pylori issues, in the first place. Cuz I wouldn't normally recommend any of those foods, to someone trying to get rid of h.pylori. Unless the milk was raw and from grass fed cows, and the whey protein was also from grass fed cows, and unflavored.

But to answer ur question, no, fiber is absolutely not necessary, if optimal health is the goal. From my research/ understanding, consuming fiber never improves health over not consuming any fiber. Again, from everything I’ve researched, if optimal health is the goal, u want to consume as little fiber as possible. And if someone specifically wants to have the best digestion possible, they absolutely want to consume as little fiber as possible.
Seagal said:
Hey Gman86 and other carnivores here, I really do believe all your personal success with carnivore or carnivore+fruits. I'm maybe just too meticulous when it comes to the phrasing of your statements which seem to generalize your experience to all of us.

Actually I did never try the 'ruminant animal diet, it's simply not affordable for me. In case you ask if I tried it. However I have many years of experience in the animal based non-processed high protein low carb field.

Peace to you dear carnivore proponents. Really needed to get this out for clarification of my standpoint.
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Ya I agree, consuming most of ur calories from ruminant animal meat can be an expensive diet, and I can totally see a person not being able to do carnivore, the way they want, due to finances. That’s why I recommend that if someone is trying to have as optimal health as possible, they just eat as close to full carnivore as they can, after compliance, finances, enjoyability, convenience, goals, overall happiness are all factored in. It’s just important, imo, for people to understand that the closer they get to full carnivore, the better they’re going to feel and function. Take me, for instance, I go to the gym, and gym performance and ability to gain muscle is important to me, so even tho I know I’d feel better on full carnivore, I personally don’t do it. I consume beef 3x/ day, and consume a lot of animal products, but I also consume a lot of raw honey, organic white rice, and fruits. This is just the balance that works best for me, atm.
 
sammmy said:
@Gman86 what is your A1C, fasting glucose, and triglycerides on carnivorous diet?
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Definitely not doing the carnivore diet atm. Never really have. Think I did it fully for like a month, at most, one time. But I do try to do as close to carnivore as I can, while still getting a good amount of carbs from raw honey, organic white rice and fruit, strictly for gym performance and ability to build muscle faster. Never had A1C tested, but I will be getting it done the next time I do labs. Here’s where fasting glucose and triglycerides were the last time I checked them, back at the beginning of the year. My diet then is exactly what it is currently. Oh, I see that u said carnivours diet, not carnivore. I like that. Carnivorous diet sounds like what I’m doing could be categorized as that. Carnivorous diet sounds like it has a little more leeway, for some reason, than saying carnivore. Even if both words are basically synonymous lol
 

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Probably your A1C is low with these low trigs and fasting glucose. Did you include carbs because your fasting glucose increased on carnivore, as it happens with some people, or because you missed carbs? Do you eat butter, cheese?
 
sammmy said:
Probably your A1C is low with these low trigs and fasting glucose. Did you include carbs because your fasting glucose increased on carnivore, as it happens with some people, or because you missed carbs? Do you eat butter, cheese?
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Like I said, only did full carnivore for maybe a month one time, and never got any labs done while on it.

Reason I do carbs with a carnivore base is strictly because I want the carbs for gym performance, and to be able to gain muscle faster. If I didn’t care about the gym and building muscle, I would definitely be doing full carnivore.

What was interesting during that one month on carnivore, was that my carb cravings went way down, and I actually craved meat a lot more. Which u would think would be the opposite. U think u would kind of get sick of meat, if that’s basically all ur eating everyday. But ironically I ended up craving meat the more I ate it. So again, if it wasn’t for the gym and gaining muscle, I think I could stick to full carnivore pretty easily.

And ya, the only fat I cook with is grass fed ghee. So I consume ghee everyday. And the only dairy I consume regularly, is 1oz of raw grass fed cheese. It might be organic too, I’ll have to check the packaging. I get it from Whole Foods. Comes in an 8oz block, and I cut it up into 1oz blocks and eat one of the 1oz blocks everyday. If I had time to hit my local farmers market on the weekends, I’d definitely grab some raw grass fed milk, and drink a bit of that each day, but just don’t have the time usually to go during the window they’re open. So the raw grass fed cheese is all the dairy I consume on a daily basis
 
sammmy said:
Am I the only one that actually read the study?


The plant-based diet did improve the diabetic parameters (probably due to the exclusion of junk food as already stipulated) but not impressively so: A1C dropped to 6.0%, fasting glucose to 108 mg/dL, triglycerides 112 mg/dL.

That's good enough for the lousy criteria of the American Diabetes Association but I have seem much better improvement with low carb carnivorous diets.
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No, you are NOT the only one who read the study.

This is what T2D remission means to them:
“Patients were defined as achieving remission using the consensus definition published by the American College of Lifestyle Medicine in 2021: HbA1c < 6.5% for at least 3 months with no surgery, devices, or active pharmacologic therapy for the specific purpose of lowering blood glucose.”

I agree, it’s still a fairly high number. However these were mostly elderly patients who were attending a cardiovascular clinic, meaning they already had complications. So achieving somewhat normal glucose levels without medication is a big deal. I am much younger and have T2D, and let me tell you, it is very difficult to reverse it!!

Anyway, I’m not here to defend Lifestyle Medicine or anything else. I’m just answering the OP’s question- what should we eat? If you guys don’t like the answer, then great, move on….


Having said that, I am intrigued at what was mentioned here that carnivore diets have also been able to reverse diabetes. It feels like it goes a little bit against current scientific understanding that saturated fats are responsible for insulin resistance, not carbs. But then again, science is always changing as new discoveries come along… if you guys have those links, please share!
 
phalloguy100 said:
It feels like it goes a little bit against current scientific understanding that saturated fats are responsible for insulin resistance, not carbs. But then again, science is always changing as new discoveries come along…
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In the 1980s US President Ronald Reagan slashed funding to NIH allowing private industry to move in.

Vast majority of Statin trials are funded by manufactures.

Bias towards drug benefits, and underestimation of risks.

When drug industry, sponsored trials cannot be examined, and questioned by independent researchers, science ceases to exist, and it becomes nothing more than marketing.

Medical doctors have become to a great degree simply pawns to push pharmaceuticals to the end user for benefit of pharmaceutical companies.

About half of the disease burden in the US is due to lifestyle choices and can be corrected by lifestyle changes.

Pharmaceutical’s like statins are inferior to diet changes, but your family doctor does not know this because he or she is not taught this in medical school, and this approach is suppressed in the medical literature.

Marcia Angell, editor of the New England Journal of medicine for 20 years,

Similar conflict of interests and bias exist in virtually every field of medicine, particularly those that rely heavily on drugs and devices.

It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians, or authoritative medical guidelines.

I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades, as an editor of the New England of Journal of medicine.

Richard Horton, editor of the Lancet wrote, that the case against science is straightforward, much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue.

Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analysis, and fragment, conflict of interests, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness.

Big Pharma pays top journal editors.
 
Last edited:
Systemlord said:
In the 1980s US President Ronald Reagan slashed funding to NIH allowing private industry to move in.

Vast majority of Statin trials are funded by manufactures.

Bias towards drug benefits, and underestimation of risks.

When drug industry, sponsored trials cannot be examined, and questioned by independent researchers, science ceases to exist, and it becomes nothing more than marketing.

Medical doctors have become to a great degree simply pawns to push pharmaceuticals to the end user for benefit of pharmaceutical companies.

About half of the disease burden in the US is due to lifestyle choices and can be corrected by lifestyle changes.

Pharmaceutical’s like statins are inferior to diet changes, but your family doctor does not know this because he or she is not taught this in medical school, and this approach is suppressed in the medical literature.

Marcia Angell, editor of the New England Journal of medicine for 20 years,

Similar conflict of interests and bias exist in virtually every field of medicine, particularly those that rely heavily on drugs and devices.

It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians, or authoritative medical guidelines.

I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades, as an editor of the New England of Journal of medicine.

Richard Horton, editor of the Lancet wrote, that the case against science is straightforward, much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue.

Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analysis, and fragment, conflict of interests, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness.

Big Pharma pays top journal editors.
Click to expand...
In accordance with Reagan's less-government intervention views, many domestic government programs were cut or experienced periods of reduced funding during his presidency. These included Social Security, Medicaid, Food Stamps, and federal education programs.

Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia › wiki › D...

Domestic policy of the Ronald Reagan administration - Wikipedia​

 
Systemlord said:
In the 1980s US President Ronald Reagan slashed funding to NIH allowing private industry to move in.

Vast majority of Statin trials are funded by manufactures.

Bias towards drug benefits, and underestimation of risks.

When drug industry, sponsored trials cannot be examined, and questioned by independent researchers, science ceases to exist, and it becomes nothing more than marketing.

Medical doctors have become to a great degree simply pawns to push pharmaceuticals to the end user for benefit of pharmaceutical companies.

About half of the disease burden in the US is due to lifestyle choices and can be corrected by lifestyle changes.

Pharmaceutical’s like statins are inferior to diet changes, but your family doctor does not know this because he or she is not taught this in medical school, and this approach is suppressed in the medical literature.

Marcia Angell, editor of the New England Journal of medicine for 20 years,

Similar conflict of interests and bias exist in virtually every field of medicine, particularly those that rely heavily on drugs and devices.

It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians, or authoritative medical guidelines.

I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades, as an editor of the New England of Journal of medicine.

Richard Horton, editor of the Lancet wrote, that the case against science is straightforward, much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue.

Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analysis, and fragment, conflict of interests, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness.

Big Pharma pays top journal editors.
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Dude, @Systemlord for president!! Truth is, ur spot on about literally everything u just said. Sad truth is, there’s still tons of people out there that don’t realize it. I personally feel like everything u said is such obvious facts, at this point. Basically “durrr statements” I like to call them. Luckily more and more people are realizing what’s actually going on tho, when it comes to the U.S. medical system. Most important thing to understand/ remember, is the U.S. medical system is a business, first and foremost. Once u understand that, things become a lot more clear, and easier to figure out. But without understanding that the U.S. medical system is a business, above all else, I can definitely see how things can be very confusing and how people can easily be mislead, especially by their own doctors. Not by any fault of their own, however. Doctors can really only advise their patients based on what they’ve learned in medical school, and what they’re restricted to advise, in order to minimize their risk of getting sued. And don’t forget, medical schools are funded, to a degree, by big pharma. And big pharma also writes a lot of the medical books used in medical school. So most doctors, after leaving medical school, simply become drug dealers for big pharma. Assess patient, diagnose, prescribe. That’s the U.S. medical system/ business in a nutshell
 
phalloguy100 said:
Having said that, I am intrigued at what was mentioned here that carnivore diets have also been able to reverse diabetes. It feels like it goes a little bit against current scientific understanding that saturated fats are responsible for insulin resistance, not carbs. But then again, science is always changing as new discoveries come along… if you guys have those links, please share!
Click to expand...
Nowhere in credible literature does it say that saturated fats cause insulin resistance. That’s just not true, and is impossible to show in any type of study/ clinical trial, simply because that’s not how the body works. Saturated fats cannot cause insulin resistance.

Carbs aren’t responsible for insulin resistance either. Insulin resistance, as far as diet goes, is the result of consuming foods that insult the body/ cause inflammation, on a regular basis. Basically processed foods, for the most part.

And reversing type 2 diabetes might be one of the easiest things to do, no offense. As far as diet goes, simply cut out all processed foods, and only consume whole/ unprocessed foods. And consume as much fatty ruminant animal meat as u can. Avoid foods that insult the body, even in whole food form. Some examples are grains, nuts, seeds, legumes (beans, lentils), veggies, to name a few. And then as far as non diet things that are important, when trying to reverse diabetes, is to workout with weights 3-5 times per week, try to optimize sleep, and try to minimize stress. If I somehow all of a sudden had type 2 diabetes, I would extremely easily be able to become non diabetic again in a month or less. It seriously is one of the easiest things to do, once u have the knowledge on how to do so. I would personally go full carnivore, to resolve it, but that’s just me. It’s not necessary to do carnivore to resolve it, carnivore would just resolve it the quickest
 
Gman86 said:
But without understanding that the U.S. medical system is a business, above all else, I can definitely see how things can be very confusing and how people can easily be mislead, especially by their own doctors.
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My endocrinologist didn't tell me how to reverse my type 2 diabetes 7 years ago. My endocrinologist said it would take a few years to restore my HPTA axis. He strongly cautioned me and even discourage me from attempting the restart.

He's more worried about my short term health rather than my long term health and quality of life be damned.

In the end it only took 1.5 weeks to get my HPTA working again and now my levels are higher much later in the day than they were in the early morning hours 7 years ago. The SHBG increase (tripled), Total T increase along with it and I'll have the new early morning value in 2 months along with an A1C.

Gman86 said:
Doctors can really only advise their patients based on what they’ve learned in medical school, and what they’re restricted to advise, in order to minimize their risk of getting sued. And don’t forget, medical schools are funded, to a degree, by big pharma. And big pharma also writes a lot of the medical books used in medical school. So most doctors, after leaving medical school, simply become drug dealers for big pharma. Assess patient, diagnose, prescribe. That’s the U.S. medical system/ business in a nutshell
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Hence my signature statement at the bottom of all my posts. I will only listen to doctors outside mainstream medicine in the private sector, Ken Berry MD, Dr. Anthony Chaffee MD who are trying to spread the word and allowing us to break free of our medical system.
 
Systemlord said:
.
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Gman86 said:
Dude, @Systemlord for president!! Truth is, ur spot on about literally everything u just said. Sad truth is, there’s still tons of people out there that don’t realize it. I personally feel like everything u said is such obvious facts, at this point. Basically “durrr statements” I like to call them. Luckily more and more people are realizing what’s actually going on tho, when it comes to the U.S. medical system. Most important thing to understand/ remember, is the U.S. medical system is a business, first and foremost. Once u understand that, things become a lot more clear, and easier to figure out. But without understanding that the U.S. medical system is a business, above all else, I can definitely see how things can be very confusing and how people can easily be mislead, especially by their own doctors. Not by any fault of their own, however. Doctors can really only advise their patients based on what they’ve learned in medical school, and what they’re restricted to advise, in order to minimize their risk of getting sued. And don’t forget, medical schools are funded, to a degree, by big pharma. And big pharma also writes a lot of the medical books used in medical school. So most doctors, after leaving medical school, simply become drug dealers for big pharma. Assess patient, diagnose, prescribe. That’s the U.S. medical system/ business in a nutshell
Click to expand...

Exactly this. I can’t think of a single example where pharmaceutical companies prioritized health over profit. And I can think of few, if any, examples of our govt. prioritizing citizens over pharmaceutical companies. Sure the lawsuits may go in favor of plaintiffs, but the companies always walk away with extra profits at the end of the day and aren’t dissuaded from carrying out the same actions over and over going forward. It was clear before, but if anyone was on the fence… it should be painfully obvious after the whole covid “vacccine” debacle.

And it doesn’t just apply to drugs. Same is true with our food producers. Hell, they had the food pyramid basically upside down for decades just because it was profitable for farmers and food companies. It only took 50k worth of bribes for them to start demonizing fats so that sugar companies could increase profits…50k for what is one of the worst attacks on human health in history. The results?? All someone has to do is spend an hour in a public place to see the results firsthand. Our overall health has taken a huge hit over the decades.
 
Systemlord said:
My endocrinologist didn't tell me how to reverse my type 2 diabetes 7 years ago. My endocrinologist said it would take a few years to restore my HPTA axis. He strongly cautioned me and even discourage me from attempting the restart.

He's more worried about my short term health rather than my long term health and quality of life be damned.

In the end it only took 1.5 weeks to get my HPTA working again and now my levels are higher much later in the day than they were in the early morning hours 7 years ago. The SHBG increase (tripled), Total T increase along with it and I'll have the new early morning value in 2 months along with an A1C.


Hence my signature statement at the bottom of all my posts. I will only listen to doctors outside mainstream medicine in the private sector, Ken Berry MD, Dr. Anthony Chaffee MD who are trying to spread the word and allowing us to break free of our medical system.
Click to expand...

I love hearing success stories like this. For as many negatives as the Internet creates, it is great that more people can become better advocates for their own health with the information that is available. And that’s a pretty impressive result from your advocacy.
 
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I have not heard of the squats thing before but I suspect it might help someone with pre-diabetes. If I do 20+ squats, my glucose drops a little more compared to walking. But the same is true of any strength training I do, sometimes causing hypoglycemia (I wear a CGM). But the drop is only temporary. There is nothing long lasting in glucose levels from what I’ve seen in my CGM reports.
 
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