Was just watching a Ken berry vid this morning before work. And Anthony Chaffee is probably my #1 source for diet/ nutrition info. That guy is the perfect balance of intelligence, amazing memory, and having some of the best common sense/ critical thinking skills I’ve ever seen. He’s also extremely good at being able to articulate his thoughts. U should checkout Dr. Sean O’mara, if u haven’t already. He agrees with Ken berry and Anthony Chaffee, in regards to their thoughts on diet, but he offers a lot of great info on something that nobody else talks about, which is visceral fat, and how bad it is for overall health. It’s really interesting stuff. Here’s a couple good vids if u want to check him out
What We Should Be Eating
- Thread starter Vince
- Start date
Ya I’m pretty sure using muscles after a meal basically just allows the muscles to act like a reservoir for glucose in the blood. Basically sucks up glucose from the blood into them. People that are insulin resistant have issues getting blood sugar into cells and muscles, and just out of the bloodstream in general, so I can see working muscle groups after a meal being beneficial for them. Makes it easier for glucose to go into muscles, and out of their bloodstream
phalloguy100
Active Member
I’m guessing you don’t have diabetes?? No, reversing it isn’t easy, but also not impossible. Lifestyle changes are hard when all you have ever known your whole life is unhealthy, ultra processed food. If reversing it is/was easy for you, then great! Good for you! But it’s not easy for everyone.
The part about saturated fats being the primary cause was taught in my diabetes education class. Yes, they cause chronic inflammation and that in turn can increase the risk of insulin resistance. There is however something about saturated fats themselves (which is what processed foods usually contain) that makes it harder for cells to accept insulin. Take a look at the American Diabetes Association website- diabetes.org.
I am not a scientist so I don’t know how you would judge a study to be “credible” or not. A quick google search came up with this:
Dietary fats and prevention of type 2 diabetes - PubMed
Although type 2 diabetes is determined primarily by lifestyle and genes, dietary composition may affect both its development and complications. Dietary fat is of particular interest because fatty acids influence glucose metabolism by altering cell membrane function, enzyme activity, insulin...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Last edited:
Phil Goodman
Well-Known Member
I am absolutely AMAZED people were actually willing to put this into an article.I’m guessing you don’t have diabetes?? No, reversing it isn’t easy, but also not impossible. Lifestyle changes are hard when all you have ever known your whole life is unhealthy, ultra processed food. If reversing it is/was easy for you, then great! Good for you! But it’s not easy for everyone.
The part about saturated fats being the primary cause was taught in my diabetes education class. Yes, they cause chronic inflammation and that in turn can increase the risk of insulin resistance. There is however something about saturated fats themselves (which is what processed foods usually contain) that makes it harder for cells to accept insulin. Take a look at the American Diabetes Association website- diabetes.org.
I am not a scientist so I don’t know how you would judge a study to be “credible” or not. A quick google search came up with this:
Dietary fats and prevention of type 2 diabetes - PubMed
Although type 2 diabetes is determined primarily by lifestyle and genes, dietary composition may affect both its development and complications. Dietary fat is of particular interest because fatty acids influence glucose metabolism by altering cell membrane function, enzyme activity, insulin...
“On the other hand, long-chain n-3 fatty acids do not appear to improve insulin sensitivity or glucose metabolism. In dietary practice, foods rich in vegetable oils, including non-hydrogenated margarines, nuts, and seeds, should replace foods rich in saturated fats from meats and fat-rich dairy products.”
As far as the fat vs. sugar thing… I mentioned one of the original drivers of this narrative earlier.
Holy sh*t, they actually wrote this?? Like within the past 20 years?!? That’s fckn wild!! Some people are just beyond saving, when it comes to diet/ nutrition and optimal health. Lord help them. They will be seeing him/ her soon enough taking that advice
I shouldn’t say reversing it is easy, I take that back. Knowing what to do, in order to reverse it, is extremely easy, and doesn’t take much time at all. But ur correct, implementing the strategies and diet/ lifestyle changes, on a consistent basis, is not easy for some people. I agree with that
So much wrong with this lol. First off, processed foods don't usually contain saturated fats. Saturated fats are the fats u want to consume the most of, as far as fats go. Processed foods usually contain trans fats, which u want to never consume, and unsaturated fats, which u don’t want to consume too much of
Saturated fats from animal products, especially ruminant animals, don’t cause inflammation
Fernando Almaguer
Well-Known Member
Fernando Almaguer
Well-Known Member
What about squats (10 bw) every 45 minutes for 8 hours. Please do the experiment lol
phalloguy100
Active Member
Fats and Diabetes
www.diabetes.org.uk
Fats and diabetes
Phil Goodman
Well-Known Member
That doesn’t say that eating fat causes diabetes… it suggests that being fat causes diabetes.Fats and Diabetes
Fats and diabetes
Liquid low-calorie or low-carb keto diet can reverse type 2 diabetes, research shows
Laura Saslow, associate professor at the University of Michigan School of Nursing, has been researching the impact of different dietary patterns on type 2 diabetes for more than a decade.
news.umich.edu
The Indiana University study showed a big drop in medication use among people on the keto diet. About 60% of those using insulin stopped needing it entirely. Medication use went down a lot in the keto group, unlike the control group where it stayed the same or went up. Overall, 47% of people on the keto diet achieved remission or reversal after one year and 38% after two years. In the control group, 7-10% of people achieved remission or reversal after 1-2 years.
When comparing the studies(keto and low calorie) the results were pretty much identical with regard to diabetes remission or reversal.
The effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a low-glycemic index diet on glycemic control in type 2 diabetes mellitus - Nutrition & Metabolism
Objective Dietary carbohydrate is the major determinant of postprandial glucose levels, and several clinical studies have shown that low-carbohydrate diets improve glycemic control. In this study, we tested the hypothesis that a diet lower in carbohydrate would lead to greater improvement in...
nutritionandmetabolism.biomedcentral.com
Eighty-four community volunteers with obesity and type 2 diabetes were randomized to either a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet (<20 g of carbohydrate daily; LCKD) or a low-glycemic, reduced-calorie diet (500 kcal/day deficit from weight maintenance diet; LGID). Both groups received group meetings, nutritional supplementation, and an exercise recommendation. The main outcome was glycemic control, measured by hemoglobin A1c.
Results
Forty-nine (58.3%) participants completed the study. Both interventions led to improvements in hemoglobin A1c, fasting glucose, fasting insulin, and weight loss. The LCKD group had greater improvements in hemoglobin A1c (-1.5% vs. -0.5%, p = 0.03), body weight (-11.1 kg vs. -6.9 kg, p = 0.008), and high density lipoprotein cholesterol (+5.6 mg/dL vs. 0 mg/dL, p < 0.001) compared to the LGID group. Diabetes medications were reduced or eliminated in 95.2% of LCKD vs. 62% of LGID participants (p < 0.01).Efficacy of Ketogenic Diets on Type 2 Diabetes: a Systematic Review - PMC
To assess the pleiotropic effects of ketogenic diets (KD) on glucose control, changes in medication, and weight loss in individuals with type 2 diabetes, and to evaluate its practical feasibility KD results in improved HbA1c already after 3 weeks, ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
A reduction in the use of glucose-lowering medications subsequent to KD has been observed by several studies. In a study by Saslow et al., 60% of participants could discontinue sulfonylureas and/or DPP-4 inhibitors, and 30% metformin after KD, but none of the subjects could do so in the control group [25]. Tay et al. reported a greater reduction in glucose-lowering agents following KD compared to the control group (p=0.02) [29]. At the 1-year follow-up, Hallberg et al. documented a significant reduction for all diabetes medications in participants of the KD group compared with the usual intervention [24]. Specifically, the overall prescriptions (not including metformin) dropped from 57 to 30%; insulin therapy was reduced/interrupted in 94% of users, sulfonylureas were discontinued in 100% of users, and metformin decreased slightly (from 71 to 65%, p=0.04)
phalloguy100
Active Member
“That doesn’t say that eating fat causes diabetes.”
No exactly, but that’s not why I posted it.
There was a comment earlier that processed foods aren’t a source of saturated fats. I guess it depends on what you consider “processed@ but this site is a little more specific on that:
No exactly, but that’s not why I posted it.
There was a comment earlier that processed foods aren’t a source of saturated fats. I guess it depends on what you consider “processed@ but this site is a little more specific on that:
Saturated fats
Saturated fat is present in higher amounts in animal products, such as:- Butter, ghee and lard
- cream
- cheese
- meat
- meat products, including sausages and bacon
- processed foods like pastries, cakes and biscuits.
- palm oil
- coconut oil and cream
Phil Goodman
Well-Known Member
“That doesn’t say that eating fat causes diabetes.”
No exactly, but that’s not why I posted it.
There was a comment earlier that processed foods aren’t a source of saturated fats. I guess it depends on what you consider “processed@ but this site is a little more specific on that:
Saturated fats
Saturated fat is present in higher amounts in animal products, such as:
- Butter, ghee and lard
- cream
- cheese
- meat
- meat products, including sausages and bacon
- processed foods like pastries, cakes and biscuits.
- palm oil
- coconut oil and cream
He actually said they don’t usually contain saturated fats, not that they aren’t a source. But the term “processed food” covers such a broad spectrum that you can’t really paint them all with the same brush. But generally speaking, if they do contain saturated fats it’s a smaller percentage than the unsaturated fat content of them.
Also, that was in response to your claim that the fats cause inflammation. I’ve already showed above that keto diets are great at helping with diabetes…so the animal products and saturated fats don’t seem to be an issue there. Same goes for inflammation. Keto diets can help reduce inflammation in the body.
The effect of a ketogenic diet on inflammation-related markers: a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials - PubMed
Consequently, adherence to a KD appears to improve some markers associated with inflammation, including TNF-α and IL-6.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
So it does appear that it’s all the another crap in processed foods that are causing the issue(along with sugar). Again, go back and look at what the sugar industry did to demonize fats and promote sugar consumption. Look at when that took place. Then, pull up a chart of the obesity and diabetes rates in America from that point forward.
I can’t wait for studies/ clinical trials on carnivore to start coming out. If these studies were done implementing a carnivore diet, opposed to keto, I would expect to see 100% of the participants put their diabetes into remission. And that’s not an exaggeration.That doesn’t say that eating fat causes diabetes… it suggests that being fat causes diabetes.
Liquid low-calorie or low-carb keto diet can reverse type 2 diabetes, research shows
Laura Saslow, associate professor at the University of Michigan School of Nursing, has been researching the impact of different dietary patterns on type 2 diabetes for more than a decade.news.umich.edu
The Indiana University study showed a big drop in medication use among people on the keto diet. About 60% of those using insulin stopped needing it entirely. Medication use went down a lot in the keto group, unlike the control group where it stayed the same or went up. Overall, 47% of people on the keto diet achieved remission or reversal after one year and 38% after two years. In the control group, 7-10% of people achieved remission or reversal after 1-2 years.
When comparing the studies(keto and low calorie) the results were pretty much identical with regard to diabetes remission or reversal.
The effect of a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet versus a low-glycemic index diet on glycemic control in type 2 diabetes mellitus - Nutrition & Metabolism
Objective Dietary carbohydrate is the major determinant of postprandial glucose levels, and several clinical studies have shown that low-carbohydrate diets improve glycemic control. In this study, we tested the hypothesis that a diet lower in carbohydrate would lead to greater improvement in...
Eighty-four community volunteers with obesity and type 2 diabetes were randomized to either a low-carbohydrate, ketogenic diet (<20 g of carbohydrate daily; LCKD) or a low-glycemic, reduced-calorie diet (500 kcal/day deficit from weight maintenance diet; LGID). Both groups received group meetings, nutritional supplementation, and an exercise recommendation. The main outcome was glycemic control, measured by hemoglobin A1c.
Results
Forty-nine (58.3%) participants completed the study. Both interventions led to improvements in hemoglobin A1c, fasting glucose, fasting insulin, and weight loss. The LCKD group had greater improvements in hemoglobin A1c (-1.5% vs. -0.5%, p = 0.03), body weight (-11.1 kg vs. -6.9 kg, p = 0.008), and high density lipoprotein cholesterol (+5.6 mg/dL vs. 0 mg/dL, p < 0.001) compared to the LGID group. Diabetes medications were reduced or eliminated in 95.2% of LCKD vs. 62% of LGID participants (p < 0.01).
Efficacy of Ketogenic Diets on Type 2 Diabetes: a Systematic Review - PMC
To assess the pleiotropic effects of ketogenic diets (KD) on glucose control, changes in medication, and weight loss in individuals with type 2 diabetes, and to evaluate its practical feasibility KD results in improved HbA1c already after 3 weeks, ...
A reduction in the use of glucose-lowering medications subsequent to KD has been observed by several studies. In a study by Saslow et al., 60% of participants could discontinue sulfonylureas and/or DPP-4 inhibitors, and 30% metformin after KD, but none of the subjects could do so in the control group [25]. Tay et al. reported a greater reduction in glucose-lowering agents following KD compared to the control group (p=0.02) [29]. At the 1-year follow-up, Hallberg et al. documented a significant reduction for all diabetes medications in participants of the KD group compared with the usual intervention [24]. Specifically, the overall prescriptions (not including metformin) dropped from 57 to 30%; insulin therapy was reduced/interrupted in 94% of users, sulfonylureas were discontinued in 100% of users, and metformin decreased slightly (from 71 to 65%, p=0.04)
The issue with keto, is that u can consume all the processed foods u want, and processed foods are the main cause of type 2 diabetes. U can technically consume 100% of ur calories from processed foods, and still be on keto. U can also still consume veggies on keto, which everyone knows I’m not a fan of lol
Guided_by_Voices
Well-Known Member
Some context and commentary:
- There is almost certainly no single cause of diabesity. For example, poor sleep has been shown to immediately create a degree of insulin resistance, and many things (like nutrient deficiencies, e.g. chromium, and lack of muscle mass) increase its likelihood.
- The best logic and evidence I have seen is coming around to excessive consumption of seed oils likely being the worst offender. Dr Cate Shanahan has been making the podcast rounds for her new book (Dark Calories) talking about this. It's worth noting that T2D was extremely rare prior to around 1925. Seed oils (crisco) and sugar beets both came into the diet around that time.
- If someone is not "fat adapted", IOW their body is not healthy in its ability to burn fats as well as glycogen, then all bets are off and any form of fat consumption could be an issue in the short term, however this is why its so critical to become fat adapted as one of the first steps in any program of health eating. Studies done with people who are not fat adapted (which is almost all of them) are going to give skewed/invalid results and this is where some of the anti-saturated fat data comes from. This is another reason why fasting has a role since it shifts the body toward burning fat but without consuming fat. Something like 80% of the US population is not properly fat adapted.
- When talking about "whole foods" it is critical to exclude grains from the diet, as they are high-risk and unnecessary.
- Regarding "what humans ate" over the course of human history, a much stronger argument that what we did eat is what we didn't eat. We certainly didn't eat seed oils in large quanties and the PUFAs we did eat were less likely to be oxidized. We also didn't start eating a-cellular carbohydrates until the last 10,000 years or so, which is pretty recent. The Egyptians from around the time of the pyramids ate a high-grain diet and ended up with a lot of modern diseases (mummified evidence for this is prevalent) although the bread may have been fermented and made with healthier varieties than what we use, both of which would have been better than the modern grains.
- There is almost certainly no single cause of diabesity. For example, poor sleep has been shown to immediately create a degree of insulin resistance, and many things (like nutrient deficiencies, e.g. chromium, and lack of muscle mass) increase its likelihood.
- The best logic and evidence I have seen is coming around to excessive consumption of seed oils likely being the worst offender. Dr Cate Shanahan has been making the podcast rounds for her new book (Dark Calories) talking about this. It's worth noting that T2D was extremely rare prior to around 1925. Seed oils (crisco) and sugar beets both came into the diet around that time.
- If someone is not "fat adapted", IOW their body is not healthy in its ability to burn fats as well as glycogen, then all bets are off and any form of fat consumption could be an issue in the short term, however this is why its so critical to become fat adapted as one of the first steps in any program of health eating. Studies done with people who are not fat adapted (which is almost all of them) are going to give skewed/invalid results and this is where some of the anti-saturated fat data comes from. This is another reason why fasting has a role since it shifts the body toward burning fat but without consuming fat. Something like 80% of the US population is not properly fat adapted.
- When talking about "whole foods" it is critical to exclude grains from the diet, as they are high-risk and unnecessary.
- Regarding "what humans ate" over the course of human history, a much stronger argument that what we did eat is what we didn't eat. We certainly didn't eat seed oils in large quanties and the PUFAs we did eat were less likely to be oxidized. We also didn't start eating a-cellular carbohydrates until the last 10,000 years or so, which is pretty recent. The Egyptians from around the time of the pyramids ate a high-grain diet and ended up with a lot of modern diseases (mummified evidence for this is prevalent) although the bread may have been fermented and made with healthier varieties than what we use, both of which would have been better than the modern grains.
There’s definitely saturated fats in processed foods. Processed foods just usually contain other types of fats, for the most part. Including trans fats and monounsaturated fats“That doesn’t say that eating fat causes diabetes.”
No exactly, but that’s not why I posted it.
There was a comment earlier that processed foods aren’t a source of saturated fats. I guess it depends on what you consider “processed@ but this site is a little more specific on that:
Saturated fats
Saturated fat is present in higher amounts in animal products, such as:
- Butter, ghee and lard
- cream
- cheese
- meat
- meat products, including sausages and bacon
- processed foods like pastries, cakes and biscuits.
- palm oil
- coconut oil and cream
Guided_by_Voices
Well-Known Member
It depends who does the studies. If they are done by mainstream authorities, the studies will almost certainly be rigged against carnivore.
Very well said. Agree with everything u said, and my research backs up everything u mentioned, including seed oils being the biggest offender, in regards to type 2 diabetes, and honestly most health conditions, as well as how important sleep is, for insulin sensitivity, and the other factors u mentioned, as well as the things u mentioned about human’s diets throughout evolution. It’s true that Egyptians ate a high grain based diet, and had many examples of cardiovascular disease in their dead. Many current health conditions can be correlated to modern agriculture becoming a common practice. Like u said, around 10,000 years ago is when it became popular. Prior to that, not even sure there are any examples of cardiovascular disease
Good point. They’ll most likely be done by the right people tho, since there’s no monetary incentive for the wrong people to do them
Guided_by_Voices
Well-Known Member
I agree, but I have one nit to pick which I think is important. The body has a very well-developed set of mechanisms for dealing with damage to the endothelium (what we would call CVD) which suggests it expects to have to deal with that issue. Supposedly non-industrialized cultures show some degree of CVD, HOWEVER, what we really care about are heart attacks and strokes, and while CVD raises their risk somewhat, they are what has really taken off in the 20th century among industrialized people. Some of that was due to leaded gasoline fumes being an issue for a while, but all the usual suspects are likely the issue. As Dr. Kendrick says, the body is always dealing with a low level of CVD and as long as repair is comfortably greater than damage, then things are good, but when the insult overwhelms repair capacity, and/or repair capacity gets out of control due to blood clotting issues, that is where the real risk comes in. Dysregulated Zeta Potential is also a likely issue for heart attacks and strokes.
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