When does estrogen become a concern?

[DragonBits]

@madman, actually you have totally missed the point! This thread is regarding estrogen becoming a concern, and I gave my anecdotes regarding the good mental effects of high E2, which I most certainly have, given my protocol which I also described.

I certainly didn't ask for your unsolicited "advice" or warnings, your 6 week theory of FLUX as you put it, or for your opinion or "help" on my protocol. End of day what Im doing works for me and I feel awesome with no side effects!! Im happy where I am, and will continue doing what Im doing.

If I were you I would stick to the topic, post regarding the topic, absorb others experiences, learn, and move along.

You also missed the point and the topic.

You have no idea of what your estrogen level is, so you can't contribute anything to when does estrogen become a concern. This isn't about your protocol or lack of blood tests and if that is good or bad.

What is your reason for not doing blood tests?

Money? Afraid of results? No time? Just want to be a rebel?

 

[Appassionato]

FWIW - I'm 56 yrs old and did not get T tested until last year when I was able to convince my doc that something was not right. My Total T was 430 [264-916] and Free T was 7 [7.2-24] - nothing else of relevance was tested due to my and my doctors ignorance. I've spent the last year "dialing in" with moderate success. I have 2 boys that are in good health and very fit (27 yrs and 30 yrs). They workout with weights often, more for strength than bodybuilding, and as far as I know they do not take any supplements that would impact their T levels. They are both very strong. I recently asked them to get tested so that they would have a baseline for the future, and also I wanted to know where they are at now, in their prime, and I would try to use that as a target for myself (rather than keep shooting in the dark). These are their results:

27 yr old: Total Test 651 [160-853], Free T 11.9 [3.5-15.5], SHBG 38 [10-57]
30 yr old: Total Test 614 [249-836], Free T 52 [35-92], SHBG 40 [16-55], E 20 [8-35]

If your 30 years old son was on TRT, someone on this forum would have said to increase the T dose because, with that SHBG, his free E2 is quite low.
While we know from Dr. Keith Nicols that we have to have E2>70 and free T at least the double of the range, along with high thyroid hormones.

Problem is many don't understand that TRT will never be the same as a normal healthy production of androgens, in a healthy young guy.
It was supposed to be prescribed to people feeling sick, trying to get back to feel like a regular healthy guy.
But it's way over prescribed here in the US, to people that didn't even try to fix their diet, their workouts and most of all their sleep.
We all just need a magic pill after all, don't we?

 

[madman]

@madman, actually you have totally missed the point! This thread is regarding estrogen becoming a concern, and I gave my anecdotes regarding the good mental effects of high E2, which I most certainly have, given my protocol which I also described.

I certainly didn't ask for your unsolicited "advice" or warnings, your 6 week theory of FLUX as you put it, or for your opinion or "help" on my protocol. End of day what Im doing works for me and I feel awesome with no side effects!! Im happy where I am, and will continue doing what Im doing.

If I were you I would stick to the topic, post regarding the topic, absorb others experiences, learn, and move along.

But you did.....with that weasley little remark you had to throw in there on your previous post.

If you want to call people out on the forum be prepared to get stomped on quick.

Think a little deeper before you run your mouth next time.

@Gman86.....did you put the weasel up to this!
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Sunday at 10:51 AM
#36
I am self medicating "TRT". I simply started at 80mg as kept increasing every 6 weeks by 20mgor so until I reached 200-250mg which is where I feel well. I have also experimented similarly with subq (a waste of time for me) and shallow IM (excellent, man up and do it). Also with dosing E2d, e3.5d and weekly.

Im using pharma Cyp procured through a friendly pharmacy. Have never tested T, FT or E2, but I feel fantastic. Did put on water weight in the beginning even with the small dose, but that went away.

Not using an AI, and feel like a million bucks. HCG made no difference either way really so I dropped it.

Age 31, and my main motivation for continuing is the supreme confidence gained as well as the "aggression" which is really useful when negotiating in the business world. People simply dont mess with me anymore! Im pretty sure high E2 is a factor here. Ever tried to win a fight with a chick who has PMS? Well, with high E2 no one will mess with you either. Im dead serious here.

To all those not "dialed" in after so many years of posting, call it a "mild cycle" if you insist, but you have to trial 200 or 250mg\week IM EOD for just a month and revert back. You may just be amazed!

And yes, I jumped over 200mg after reading all the hype created by a certain you know who.
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This is coming from a guy who upped his dose every 6 weeks.....spent months on end in FLUX only to go on and state that once he reached such dose he feels great.

Then he one ups the complete s**t show by stating....."To all those not "dialed" in after so many years of posting, call it a "mild cycle" if you insist, but you have to trial 200 or 250mg\week IM EOD for just a month and revert back. You may just be amazed!

4 weeks..........you f***ing amateur!

 

[bixt]

@madman, sure, 70 posts later out of the blue you still have every right to call me out on the advice given. I have no issue with that, take it or leave it. I threw that out there, maybe this wasn't the forum to do so. But take a guess as to what effect this will have? I guarantee you that people are flocking to the FB group simply to see what the hype is about. That is EXACTLY how I came across it. If you don't want to fuel the fire, simply let people be, people who's protocols you oppose. Those searching for answers and anecdotes along those forbidden numbers will find them, and the rest will ignore and move along.

What I do have an issue with is your interference in a perfectly working protocol with zero sides! And the general insistence of a few members that I am destroying my life even though I feel awesome. I will be checking back every few months with an update and perhaps bloods too. Have patience, and wait until then to see how I feel?

There are tons of sick sick individuals all over this forum, many of whom are in depression and some who are suicidal. They have tried everything and none of the experts here are able to give them relief. If I were them and there were ANY new ideas to try before putting the lights out, I would want to hear about them.

 

[bixt]

But it's way over prescribed here in the US, to people that didn't even try to fix their diet, their workouts and most of all their sleep.

100%. TRT\TOT is not a magic pill, cure all solution. It's for those who already workout, eat well and live almost perfect lives on paper health wise.

 

[Charliebizz]

@madman, sure, 70 posts later out of the blue you still have every right to call me out on the advice given. I have no issue with that, take it or leave it. I threw that out there, maybe this wasn't the forum to do so. But take a guess as to what effect this will have? I guarantee you that people are flocking to the FB group simply to see what the hype is about. That is EXACTLY how I came across it. If you don't want to fuel the fire, simply let people be, people who's protocols you oppose. Those searching for answers and anecdotes along those forbidden numbers will find them, and the rest will ignore and move along.

What I do have an issue with is your interference in a perfectly working protocol with zero sides! And the general insistence of a few members that I am destroying my life even though I feel awesome. I will be checking back every few months with an update and perhaps bloods too. Have patience, and wait until then to see how I feel?

There are tons of sick sick individuals all over this forum, many of whom are in depression and some who are suicidal. They have tried everything and none of the experts here are able to give them relief. If I were them and there were ANY new ideas to try before putting the lights out, I would want to hear about them.

i don’t think you are wrong to try what you are doing either. I just don’t really like the assumptions of what our great grand fathers Felt like and all that other jazz. And I too went over to that group looking for answers but if you think we are closed minded over here forget it. I only lasted one month on that group. Most of the guys that comment I don’t believe we’re truly sick and are on so many compounds. Then in same breath tell you how simple trt is. Just take 250mg split into everyday shots and your good any other symptoms are unrelated. How can you even try and act like you aren’t messing with the most complex organism on fucking earth. No to mention half the drs they tout as the gold standard legit look like the local gyms juice head. And that all fine and well but don’t call that trt and speak in absolutes.

And when I presented them with my problem that anything over 80mg per week I get pretty bad side effects it came down to maybe an allergy to the carrier or “something else”. Well thanks guys you really got it all figured out lol. However there are some good guys over there and they do post some interesting studies. But I couldn’t take the cult behavior. So I left

I’m not trying to bash you at all I think we are just telling you you should be a bit more proactive in checking your blood markers just so you don’t run into problems down the line. And like I said I’m glad to see you feel well and hope you do continue to check in with us.

 

[Vince Carter]

@Vince
@Nelson Vergel

 

[Gman86]

@madman, sure, 70 posts later out of the blue you still have every right to call me out on the advice given. I have no issue with that, take it or leave it. I threw that out there, maybe this wasn't the forum to do so. But take a guess as to what effect this will have? I guarantee you that people are flocking to the FB group simply to see what the hype is about. That is EXACTLY how I came across it. If you don't want to fuel the fire, simply let people be, people who's protocols you oppose. Those searching for answers and anecdotes along those forbidden numbers will find them, and the rest will ignore and move along.

What I do have an issue with is your interference in a perfectly working protocol with zero sides! And the general insistence of a few members that I am destroying my life even though I feel awesome. I will be checking back every few months with an update and perhaps bloods too. Have patience, and wait until then to see how I feel?

There are tons of sick sick individuals all over this forum, many of whom are in depression and some who are suicidal. They have tried everything and none of the experts here are able to give them relief. If I were them and there were ANY new ideas to try before putting the lights out, I would want to hear about them.

Don’t let madman bother you. If you notice, he has a problem with every single persons protocol. He just attacks everyone and tells them how stupid they are. I don’t think I’ve seen him post one nice or encouraging thing on this forum. He’s without a doubt driven many members away from this great forum, that has a lot of potential. But with people like that, I don’t blame them for not sticking around. When you’re not feeling well, the last thing you want is for someone to make fun of you and tell you how idiotic you are. This forum would be a much better place without him in it. I’m not sure why the moderators continue to allow his behavior. It’s extremely disrupting to the forum, imo, and has without a doubt driven many members to look elsewhere for guidance.

 

[Vince]

The thread is getting off subject.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I am closing this tread after dozens of posts. Go back to each page and read the discussion since things keep getting repeated.

We have more data coming about the ratio of testosterone to estradiol being the more important variable to follow. Keep an eye on my free Ebook coming out in two weeks as a Christmas gift to your all (398 pages). I go into detail there about estradiol management's latest data.