What is TRT and What is NOT TRT

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Speaking of England......I had my bouncers nicely remove wealthy English night club owner Peter Stringfellow (RIP) and his US business partner from Miami, from the club I ran in NYC's upper east side. Both were opening a club in midtown and came in to start making threats to me. Made the front page of NY's Village Voice the next morning.

Yea, it dangerous here in Houston too. We have tons of street gangs both, black and Hispanic, plus we now have Mexican drug cartels residing in Houston and doing business. You never know when you might be in the wrong place at the wrong time. So my wife and I don't go out at night for any reason.
 
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BigTex said:
Speaking of England......I had my bouncers nicely remove wealthy English night club owner Peter Stringfellow (RIP) and his US business partner from Miami, from the club I ran in NYC's upper east side. Both were opening a club in midtown and came in to start making threats to me. Made the front page of NY's Village Voice the next morning.

Yea, it dangerous here in Houston too. We have tons of street gangs both, black and Hispanic, plus we now have Mexican drug cartels residing in Houston and doing business. You never know when you might be in the wrong place at the wrong time. So my wife and I don't go out at night for any reason.
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I just took my time and read about him. I'm sure he lived an interesting life. Same as you @BigTex awesome to listen to your stories. By the looks he def looked like a guy who should never make any threats to anyone lol

Yes, always prevention, that is what matters. Usually if shit can go down, it will go down as per Murphy's law. So better safe then sorry. US is damn dangerous from everything I've seen and read. But every country has some nasty areas were you better not pop up at night if ever at all. Read about Sweden as well and would never believe how gang infested it became. Guns, violence and dead bodies on the regular. Same with Belgium, the new Cocaine capital of Europe. Just to name a few. But yeah where you at you got all kinds of different criminals running around doing their thing and you never know when shit might hit the fan.
 
BigTex said:
So my wife and I don't go out at night for any reason.
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Haha
In bed by 8PM if I can help it. Don't know what the hell was wrong with us when we were younger. Had a club all of us would go to at 3AM after all the other clubs shutdown. Club manager was a vampire but I had hooked him up with some supplement discounts so I had his card. 24 hr liquor license and a lot of bad stories. One night the line was 100-150 people long but we just breezed right to the front with the VIP card. Never good to be leaving the club after the sun is coming up LOL.

Never listened to Dad. Was too *smart*.
 
Get ready for TRAVERSE II with 20 to 30 ng/dl FT treatment range. I would guess still would not move the needle on dropout rate. My FT about 30 ng/dl and I still hit the sack by 8 PM. All these gainz make me even more tired.



""But, clinical trials of testosterone point to modest, or even unnoticeable symptom relief, or benefits of testosterone replacement therapy. Dr. Steven Woloshin of the Dartmouth Institute for Health Policy & Clinical Practice, says one of the important findings from the new study is that about 60% of the men in the clinical trial stopped taking testosterone during the trial. Many said their symptoms persisted.

"That's just another way of saying it didn't work or didn't work enough for [men] to notice a benefit," Woloshin says.""
 
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readalot said:
Get ready for TRAVERSE II with 20 to 30 ng/dl FT treatment range. I would guess still would not move the needle on dropout rate. My FT about 30 ng/dl and I still hit the sack by 8 PM. All these gainz make me even more tired.



But, clinical trials of testosterone point to modest, or even unnoticeable symptom relief, or benefits of testosterone replacement therapy. Dr. Steven Woloshin of the Dartmouth Institute for Health Policy & Clinical Practice, says one of the important findings from the new study is that about 60% of the men in the clinical trial stopped taking testosterone during the trial. Many said their symptoms persisted.

"That's just another way of saying it didn't work or didn't work enough for [men] to notice a benefit," Woloshin says.
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I am not surprised. TRT is just not for everyone. Having to take a medication by injecting yourself for the rest of your life is a tough one in itself. I think a lot of men are expecting a lot more that what they are ever going to get. It's just not the magic bullet for all of your problems. Even for the old iron heads I deal with I have to make them understand that you are not going to ever feel "normal." That will take 500-1000mg of testosterone. Instead you have to be happy with a new normal. Which is certainly better than feeling like crap. There is so much that happens as we age that has nothing to do with testosterone levels.

Yes, I am in bed by 8:30pm every day of the week. Up at 4am. Even on the weekends and holidays. I am worn out by then.
 
BigTex said:
I am not surprised. TRT is just not for everyone. Having to take a medication by injecting yourself for the rest of your life is a tough one in itself. I think a lot of men are expecting a lot more that what they are ever going to get. It's just not the magic bullet for all of your problems. Even for the old iron heads I deal with I have to make them understand that you are not going to ever feel "normal." That will take 500-1000mg of testosterone. Instead you have to be happy with a new normal. Which is certainly better than feeling like crap. There is so much that happens as we age that has nothing to do with testosterone levels.

Yes, I am in bed by 8:30pm every day of the week. Up at 4am. Even on the weekends and holidays. I am worn out by then.
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Fantastic post. And just look at men as a whole. Most guys I know are horrible with taking care of themselves. Most guys I know never go to the dr. I personally know a few guys that even felt great on trt but stopped cause they hated going for labs every 6 months to a year.
 
readalot said:
Get ready for TRAVERSE II with 20 to 30 ng/dl FT treatment range. I would guess still would not move the needle on dropout rate. My FT about 30 ng/dl and I still hit the sack by 8 PM. All these gainz make me even more tired.



""But, clinical trials of testosterone point to modest, or even unnoticeable symptom relief, or benefits of testosterone replacement therapy. Dr. Steven Woloshin of the Dartmouth Institute for Health Policy & Clinical Practice, says one of the important findings from the new study is that about 60% of the men in the clinical trial stopped taking testosterone during the trial. Many said their symptoms persisted.

"That's just another way of saying it didn't work or didn't work enough for [men] to notice a benefit," Woloshin says.""
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@readalot you were mentioned in the latest jay podcast with keith. He addresses the traverse studies again. Just curious your thoughts??
 
Charliebizz said:
@readalot you were mentioned in the latest jay podcast with keith. He addresses the traverse studies again. Just curious your thoughts??
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Wow, I am really moving up in the world. I give of my valuable time as a way to say thank you to @Nelson Vergel for all of his altruism over the years. And of course to help the guys who don't know any better and listen to above podcast and think it is more than what it actually is....dangerous entertainment that instills a false sense of confidence in some.

Here you go for those that can appreciate this sort of thing:


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Post-hoc Power Calculator

Calculator to determine the post-hoc power of an existing study.
clincalc.com clincalc.com

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Nice hand waving with the COVID angle. I guess by magic the placebo arm somehow did not have an opportunity to be exposed to COVID.

My opinion, the discussion is not a credible scientific discussion of the trial. It is entertainment. Never use a physician who appends the words "Woke" and "TRT" IMHO.

Too bad as I agree on many on the points around diet, training, stoicism, etc. Unfortunately @RobRoy reminds me of one of my project partners in undergrad. I refused to let him assist on the project and sent him off while I did the work. We all got an "A" of course.

Remember, these types of people are now out there in the workforce. We used to joke at graduation and ask what state they will be working in so to steer clear of that state for reasons particular to our undergraduate major.

There are those who reason well, but they are greatly outnumbered by those who reason badly

Galileo Galilei
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Funny you won't get the above analysis on Jay's podcasts. Leave it to the people who understand this stuff and do related jobs for a living.

Yes, I am running post hoc power analysis on two statistically significant findings from the TRAVERSE study. What does this tell you @RobRoy? Maybe phone a friend?


What does the significant result on the arrythmia component of TRAVERSE trial tell you? See above article to understand why the comments you made about power are absurd.

Sincerely,
Dude with 30 ng/dl FT level as I write this. Ok, maybe a little higher haha. I am woke out of my mind!
 
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My intentions By posting that wasn’t to fan the flames. I just truly enjoy the discussion. I wish it could be a little more civil. And I wish @RobRoy wouldnt come in hot then bail out for days in end but I guess he’s a little “busy”. one question was raised in another podcast he was on on The topic of hematocrit, why do some feel better after donating blood. He kind of glossed over it I would like to know his true answer or opinion.
 
Charliebizz said:
one question was raised in another podcast he was on on The topic of hematocrit, why do some feel better after donating blood. He kind of glossed over it I would like to know his true answer or opinion.
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I'd guess his simple answer is they're woke pussies if they can't handle thicker blood. If you get whiney about headaches, fatigue, shortness of breath and etc with a hematocrit of 54+ then leave TRT to the real men among us.
 
readalot said:
Wow, I am really moving up in the world. I give of my valuable time as a way to say thank you to @Nelson Vergel for all of his altruism over the years. And of course to help the guys who don't know any better and listen to above podcast and think it is more than what it actually is....dangerous entertainment that instills a false sense of confidence in some.

Here you go for those that can appreciate this sort of thing:


View attachment 34267

Post-hoc Power Calculator

Calculator to determine the post-hoc power of an existing study.
clincalc.com clincalc.com

View attachment 34266





View attachment 34268
View attachment 34269

View attachment 34270


Nice hand waving with the COVID angle. I guess by magic the placebo arm somehow did not have an opportunity to be exposed to COVID.

My opinion, the discussion is not a credible scientific discussion of the trial. It is entertainment. Never use a physician who appends the words "Woke" and "TRT" IMHO.

Too bad as I agree on many on the points around diet, training, stoicism, etc. Unfortunately @RobRoy reminds me of one of my project partners in undergrad. I refused to let him assist on the project and sent him off while I did the work. We all got an "A" of course.

Remember, these types of people are now out there in the workforce. We used to joke at graduation and ask what state they will be working in so to steer clear of that state for reasons particular to our undergraduate major.



Funny you won't get the above analysis on Jay's podcasts. Leave it to the people who understand this stuff and do related jobs for a living.

Yes, I am running post hoc power analysis on two statistically significant findings from the TRAVERSE study. What does this tell you @RobRoy? Maybe phone a friend?

Sincerely,
Dude with 30 ng/dl FT level as I write this. Ok, maybe a little higher haha. I am woke out of my mind!
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I’m a very cautious guy with my health and trt. I’ve actually been low t for around 17 years now. I fought as hard as I could not to be on trt. I was always worried about long term effects of the shut down, upstream hormones , too high levels and all that shit. But it wasn’t till I said fuck it let’s just try the cream like the tot guys say till I started actually feeling good. All my other health markers are good. And my labs aren’t out of this world. on 3 clicks I was 700tt 20ft. I’m on 4 now haven’t got labs. But I feel good. it’s been a few months for me. no doubt I would like to know if I’m putting myself at long term risk. But I do know I wasn’t doing well living with low or even mid range t levels.
 
Beyond Testosterone Book by Nelson Vergel
readalot said:
Great. Hope you enjoyed my contribution. Let me know if you have any questions. He is no busier than me.
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I just wish this shit didn’t get so tribal. I will say like him or not nichols has done a lot for the trt community. But I also know ex Patients that said he was no better than the other docs in regards to cookie cutter protocols. Like cream, dhea, preg and thyroid out the gate. As a guy who’s tried all those I can say that’s pretty shitty way to start ”some” people out on hrt.
 
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