What is TRT and What is NOT TRT

[tareload]

Hmmm, where have I read about this DIY hormonal intervention previously?

Barriers to trans care lead some to embrace a do-it-yourself approach

Despite the health and legal risks to this approach, some experts predict it will become more common due to the current political environment.

www.nbcnews.com

Seems as if a certain segment of the population has dealt with this for many many years. Would seem to me that endocrinologists will be at the front of this sea change.

If I can go and seek treatment to switch from man to "woman" or woman to "man", then surely I can go and seek treatment to be a bigger man or bigger woman. Health risks are very similar.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

I tried to read this but got absolutely confused when they started off with "nonbinary and uses they/them pronouns."

 

[tareload]

I tried to read this but got absolutely confused when they started off with "nonbinary and uses they/them pronouns."

It is almost as confusing as learning tensor math. Lots of concentration!

 

[RobRoy]

Yes great point. I come probably too hard from the start low and go slow school...minimum effective dose for TRT. That is my bias.

Some want to skip those first few conservative months as a waste of time but I prefer to not give any advice over the internet that will really hurt some guy. Informed consent is critical. Starting a guy a 150 mg/week test cyp as blanket advice is dumb IMO. Especially as a general rule of thumb over the internet by a guy who has no medical training and poor math/science/biology skills and no clinical experience!

What are your clinical bill skills and your medical training?

 

[tareload]

What are your clinical bill skills and your medical training?

Who's asking?

I would hope you would already know the answer to that question after years of us going back and forth if you had even the slightest, and I mean slightest, bit of reading comprehension.

 

[RobRoy]

Who's asking?

I would hope you would already know the answer to that question after years of us going back and forth if you had even the slightest, and I mean slightest, bit of reading comprehension.

No that doesn't answer the question does it? So what is your medical training? I know one thing you weren't trained an adequate interpretation of the medical literature. Just a keyboard warrior or Internet coward as we refer to them.

 

[tareload]

I know one thing you weren't trained an adequate interpretation of the medical literature. Just a keyboard warrior or Internet coward as we refer to them.

.

NO MORE AI !!! FEELING AMAZING!

Congratulations on feeling better. That's the holy grail. I will say tho. My free T is at 21 and I am vaguely worried about testosterone resistance at my level. But your free T is 3x the upper normal range. I know I'd be worried at that level. Not sure if I would do anything different...

www.excelmale.com

Should We Be Managing Estradiol and Hematocrit in Men on Testosterone Replacement?

Dr. Nichols, so glad you joined, welcome to the EM community! You have noted the importance of optimizing one's Free T3 serum levels as part of an effective HRT protocol. I concur wholeheartedly with that, and I think too many physicians and patients tend to overlook the importance of how...

www.excelmale.com

What is wrong with your old account on here?

 

[Deleted member 43589]

I have to say this. ALL of these conversations I just read took place before I took part in the great board. Thanks for the link so I had the opportunity to read. I was blown away to see @J. Keith Nichols MD and @Dr Justin Saya, MD posting.

I do have a science back ground but in a whole different field of exercise science and sport nutrition. I have read enough research studies in my life that I can intelligently make comments and ask questions. But I do recognize that these two doctors know far more about this subject that I do. While I have been around anabolic steroids for over 42 years as an athlete and done more than my share I don't even claim to be more knowledgeable about this area than these two doctors. But then even I may have experience to add that may be helpful. After all is was me and a few gym rats that spent hours sharing our experiences with Dr. Crysler that helped him open his mind up to think more outside of the box.

I think we all have the opportunity to sit back and learn and are very lucky to have both posting here. The bottom line is we all need to do a whole lot of critical thinking, read as much about what both of them say and eventually make up our own mind about how we need to treat our own body. Hopefully both doctors will stay here as they are both loaded with knowledge and offer a huge learning opportunity that most don't get. We all have the opportunity to make up our own minds. I learned in science a long time ago that none of us know everything and even what we know can change the next day. TRT is a very new field and we are learning more and more about it this board provides a lot of in the trenches experience that sometimes research will never show. Again, my thanks to @J. Keith Nichols MD and @Dr Justin Saya, MD for taking the time out of your busy schedules to post here.

The big question.....is RobRoy, Dr,. Nichols? I may seem kind of slow but I don't frequent a lot of boards and keep up on the drama there. I know I have gone by a few names since I have been on the internet starting about1995. Mostly because I forgot a username and or password.

 

[tareload]

I have to say this. ALL of these conversations I just read took place before I took part in the great board. Thanks for the link so I had the opportunity to read. I was blown away to see @J. Keith Nichols MD and @Dr Justin Saya, MD posting.

I do have a science back ground but in a whole different field of exercise science and sport nutrition. I have read enough research studies in my life that I can intelligently make comments and ask questions. But I do recognize that these two doctors know far more about this subject that I do. While I have been around anabolic steroids for over 42 years as an athlete and done more than my share I don't even claim to be more knowledgeable about this area than these two doctors. But then even I may have experience to add that may be helpful. After all is was me and a few gym rats that spent hours sharing our experiences with Dr. Crysler that helped him open his mind up to think more outside of the box.

I think we all have the opportunity to sit back and learn and are very lucky to have both posting here. The bottom line is we all need to do a whole lot of critical thinking, read as much about what both of them say and eventually make up our own mind about how we need to treat our own body. Hopefully both doctors will stay here as they are both loaded with knowledge and offer a huge learning opportunity that most don't get. We all have the opportunity to make up our own minds. I learned in science a long time ago that none of us know everything and even what we know can change the next day. TRT is a very new field and we are learning more and more about it this board provides a lot of in the trenches experience that sometimes research will never show. Again, my thanks to @J. Keith Nichols MD and @Dr Justin Saya, MD for taking the time out of your busy schedules to post here.

The big question.....is RobRoy, Dr,. Nichols? I may seem kind of slow but I don't frequent a lot of boards and keep up on the drama there. I know I have gone by a few names since I have been on the internet starting about1995. Mostly because I forgot a username and or password.

I always said you were quite generous and kind BigTex. I hope you are doing well.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Thanks, but I'm not so sure about all that. But I do love listening to both sides of the issue. Sometimes I can be pretty brutal with my opinions. WHO is RobRoy? Is he a medical doctor for real? I understanding hiding your identity. While I am at an age I don't really give a shit what people think about me I do want to be anonymous. I have been underground so long that it is hard to come out. This is an open board and all we say is out for the public to read. Including government.


I have to admit this HCT and E2 stuff is relatively new to me. I have never had issues with either until the last year so naturally I never cared about learning about it. HCT is at 49 and my E2 was at 66 last testing and I'm not so convinced that is bad. I never had gyno or huge amounts of water retention on anything. I am also doing 4iu of HGH and have very little water retention. I have no symptoms of high E2 and not so sure I want to be taking anastrozole to solve something that I am not having any unwanted symptoms from. Changing testosterone esters and eating grapefruit seemed to solve the HCT. There has to be answers and I will listen critically to anyone who wants to give them to me. I do know this, when my blood was so thick that the blood machine kept shutting down, doing a dump that could not be so healthy. Common sense. But the doctors I deal with don't seem to know enough about this to think outside the box. Go dump blood until you hit 45% and take these 1mg pills until you crash your E2. How about changing esters? I get the same response form orthopedics......surgery in the only way.

 

[JmarkH]

RobRoy's style of language and lowbrow bullying suggest to me he is neither well-educated nor from a professional field. Evidence for Arrogance: On the relative importance of expertise, outcome, and manner.

 

[tareload]

RobRoy's style of language and lowbrow bullying suggest to me he is neither well-educated nor from a professional field. Evidence for Arrogance: On the relative importance of expertise, outcome, and manner.

Fun read, thanks for sharing.

 

[tareload]

I know one thing you weren't trained an adequate interpretation of the medical literature. Just a keyboard warrior or Internet coward as we refer to them.

Are you sure? Who would I get that from? You and NR?

Funny says the person who won't post under his own account after the intellectual and competent medical practice beating you took on here from JS.

I wish you peace man. You need it. Why come on the forums? You are pretty outspoken with your patients and public to stay off the forums and especially "inmates" here at EM.

 

[tareload]

Changing testosterone esters and eating grapefruit seemed to solve the HCT. There has to be answers

Congrats on the improvement!

This experience does lead credence to the hypothesis that there a critical ceiling to not exceed on serum FT levels per sensitive individual. Did your AUC change with the change in ester? I doubt the carboxylic acid is the primary driver instead it is the pharmacokinetics it enables or your AUC changed.

However since you added the grapefruit it is hard to decouple.

Lots of prior discussion on all this...

Hematocrit and TRT. How to have balance.

Hello everybody. When I changed my protocol from Nebido to cypionate, I read that for those with low SHBG 12, the most recommended would be 20mg EOD, but with this protocol my hematocrit went up, BP increased, I had to do phlebotomy and ended up giving myself time to recover ferritin. I know...

www.excelmale.com

Too bad you can't access TNation. I posted quite a bit about the hypothesis on this critical ceiling construct and the associated literature on old dudes and hepcidin suppression.

Testosterone Suppresses Hepcidin in Men: A Potential Mechanism for Testosterone-Induced Erythrocytosis

Testosterone suppresses the iron regulatory peptide hepcidin in men, and this effect is more pronounced in older men who also experience greater erythrocyt

academic.oup.com

 

[RobRoy]

Who's asking?

I would hope you would already know the answer to that question after years of us going back and forth if you had even the slightest, and I mean slightest, bit of reading comprehension.

Everyone meet Joseph Hernshaw, who works for dr. Robert Stevens at the men’s health clinic in the UK. You can look up his credentials for yourself now if this is so you want to take advice from them feel free to continue to do so.

 

[tareload]

Everyone meet Joseph Hernshaw, who works for dr. Robert Stevens at the men’s health clinic in the UK. You can look up his credentials for yourself now if this is so you want to take advice from them feel free to continue to do so.

Lol. So I know who you are but you don't know who I am.

You already guessed that. I am not in this field. And my graphs are better haha.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Congrats on the improvement!

This experience does lead credence to the hypothesis that there a critical ceiling to not exceed on serum FT levels per sensitive individual. Did your AUC change with the change in ester? I doubt the carboxylic acid is the primary driver instead it is the pharmacokinetics it enables or your AUC changed.

However since you added the grapefruit it is hard to decouple.

Lots of prior discussion on all this...



Too bad you can't access TNation. I posted quite a bit about the hypothesis on this critical ceiling construct and the associated literature on old dudes and hepcidin suppression.

So by AUC you mean area under the drug concentration-time curve? I would assume by doing micro-dosing of TU it has literally taken months to reach peak and the levels were much more stable. Cypionate the time to reach peak is very short. My wife even suggested that the cypionate was the issue the whole time. Hell she knows as much about these esters as I do. I even went for two months after dropping the cypionate and adding TU by adding test base 30mg/d until the blood levels of TU started getting closer to peak. Never in my life have I done it this way and the last thing I wanted was to feel like crap with low serum T levels. After dropping the cypionate I did test and was at 320 so I added the base.

I had no idea what dose to even use because I wanted to go ever 5 days. So I checked back at older blood work where I was doing 1000mg every 90 days and came up with a dose. My doctor still thinks I am using the cypionate he prescribes. So needless to say he was not part of this decision and most likely would not approve. I mentioned TU and he said it would not work because I would have to depend on UG sources. As I said, I have only used cypionate a very few times and that was back in the 80's. Since then it was only enanthate and the last 10 years or so I switched to TU only. I seem to respond with less unwanted side effects with TU. The grapefruit was another guess as when I was doing TU we had about a dozen grapefruit trees in our yard. I ate grapefruit every day year round. Lots of guess work on cause and effect going on. But sometimes that is all we have. I know that grapefruit lowers HCT and know that the times I did TU I ate grapefruit and never had HCT issues. So I cut the cypionate, added TU and started eating grapefruit and the HCT dropped to normal.

I guess I am going to have to break down and sign up to TN again. I can't remember my old user name whether it was BigTex, ILiftBig2001, or something else. Might have even been my real name. I joined that place right after they opened it and never posted there much. There are quite a few people involved with TN that I honestly can't tolerate.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Everyone meet Joseph Hernshaw, who works for dr. Robert Stevens at the men’s health clinic in the UK. You can look up his credentials for yourself now if this is so you want to take advice from them feel free to continue to do so.

OK, so this is you? We have something in common, powerlifting. I spent 27 years of my life competing was well know in the game.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

RobRoy's style of language and lowbrow bullying suggest to me he is neither well-educated nor from a professional field. Evidence for Arrogance: On the relative importance of expertise, outcome, and manner.

I always hate to see discussions on this board digress to that level, but I understand. I was attacked pretty hard not that long ago posting about my 27 year old taking testosterone. My style of language quickly change as a defense, I believe my language was much harsher to some. If this guy is who he posted then he does have a lot to share with us. We all just need to drop the tone of this conversation and communicate more effectively.

Yes, I am not taking sides on this issue, much of this probably happened before I got on the board and I am not so interested in going back and reading a bunch internet fighting. I am here to learn and pass on the knowledge I have. As I told a friend, after 42+ years of using every anabolic substance know to man I have surely got a lot to share.

@readalot has always been very kind to me and I appreciate all that he takes the time to add to this board. Here is my personality, I am well educated, have a very professional job, but I am also a old powerlifter, old athlete, retired football coach and 21 years of my life I ran strip clubs, probably got into more fights than Mike Tyson. I am very rough around the edges and some times what I saw comes off wrong to others, even though I didn't intend to be that way. So I have to try hard to be more correct with how I posts. Thanks to @readalot I am able to edit what I saw post as much as I need to come off as a nice guy.

 

[Mastodont]

So by AUC you mean area under the drug concentration-time curve? I would assume by doing micro-dosing of TU it has literally taken months to reach peak and the levels were much more stable. Cypionate the time to reach peak is very short. My wife even suggested that the cypionate was the issue the whole time. Hell she knows as much about these esters as I do. I even went for two months after dropping the cypionate and adding TU by adding test base 30mg/d until the blood levels of TU started getting closer to peak. Never in my life have I done it this way and the last thing I wanted was to feel like crap with low serum T levels. After dropping the cypionate I did test and was at 320 so I added the base.

I had no idea what dose to even use because I wanted to go ever 5 days. So I checked back at older blood work where I was doing 1000mg every 90 days and came up with a dose. My doctor still thinks I am using the cypionate he prescribes. So needless to say he was not part of this decision and most likely would not approve. I mentioned TU and he said it would not work because I would have to depend on UG sources. As I said, I have only used cypionate a very few times and that was back in the 80's. Since then it was only enanthate and the last 10 years or so I switched to TU only. I seem to respond with less unwanted side effects with TU. The grapefruit was another guess as when I was doing TU we had about a dozen grapefruit trees in our yard. I ate grapefruit every day year round. Lots of guess work on cause and effect going on. But sometimes that is all we have. I know that grapefruit lowers HCT and know that the times I did TU I ate grapefruit and never had HCT issues. So I cut the cypionate, added TU and started eating grapefruit and the HCT dropped to normal.

I guess I am going to have to break down and sign up to TN again. I can't remember my old user name whether it was BigTex, ILiftBig2001, or something else. Might have even been my real name. I joined that place right after they opened it and never posted there much. There are quite a few people involved with TN that I honestly can't tolerate.

You did not do any frontloading for the TU this time, just started microdosing from the start?