What is TRT and What is NOT TRT

[FunkOdyssey]

Since it is Christmas time and there is no better time to ridicule "experts" who don't understand what the heck they are talking about...

https://www.center4menshealth.com/PDFs/Myth_2.pdf

So if you get bored this Holiday season take a look at above and marvel at what's wrong with this picture. Then convince yourself we need to invest more in math and science education to save our society.

What is the author missing in his analysis? How would you like this person guiding your medical care?

HINT:

Starting TRT Over Soon

Sorry for the error above @Gibbon (I input 300 mg/week every 7 days instead of the 300 mg you were doing every 28 days approx.) Very likely you were up close to 3000 ng/dl at peak and now the 755 ng/dl 10 days after injection makes sense. Sorry for confusion previous graph caused. Graph as...

forums.t-nation.com

People complain about the rent-seeking associations that act as gatekeepers to desirable professions like medicine and law, by restricting access with burdensome requirements. They obviously aren't making it hard enough -- how many years of school and residency would it take to weed out people this stupid? Maybe we should just replace the MCAT with a basic critical thinking exam.

 

[Marcel]

So, what's the verdict? what's the general consensus from the most experienced and educated members on the forum? I understand that with this subject it's hard to come up with a definitive answer but what's closest thing to an answer?

 

[tareload]

So, what's the verdict? what's the general consensus from the most experienced and educated members on the forum? I understand that with this subject it's hard to come up with a definitive answer but what's closest thing to an answer?

My 2 cents. Assortment of threads all in one post.

Hello, 57 year old about to start TRT and have questions

Hello all, a little background.......I have been in a bad marriage for 37 years and have been through at least 5 traumatic family events & losses, so I assume I have been depressed for a while now but never dealt with it. I am now seperated and on depression, anxiety & insomnia meds started 2.5...

www.excelmale.com

 

[Marcel]

Those are most valuable 2 cents I've ever seen, also Dany Bossa doesn't seem to like you

 

[tareload]

also Dany Bossa doesn't seem to like you

Must mean I am doing something right. Thanks and hope you get feedback from experienced and respected members here. Such a great storehouse of info here.

 

[tareload]

Those are most valuable 2 cents I've ever seen, also Dany Bossa doesn't seem to like you

One more....

Hourly Intraday testosterone profiles in young eugonadal (healthy functional) men (1973-1983)

https://forums.t-nation.com/t/24-hour-tt-profiles-in-young-eugondal-healthy-functional-men-1970s-1980s/277585 Enjoy. There's no way I am copying these graphs again so sorry you have to view this on another site. I reached way back for you guys. 1970s-1980s back when we had "REAL" men...

www.excelmale.com

24 Hour TT Profiles in Young, Healthy Functional Men [1973-1983]

TLDR (great suggestion by @kazuya_mishima1): Danny and the TOT folks are mistaken to put it politely with respect to pharmacokinetics and dose response of injectable exogeneous testosterone. They act like it’s some mystery how you will respond to injectable testosterone. It really isn’t and...

forums.t-nation.com

 

[Marcel]

Must mean I am doing something right. Thanks and hope you get feedback from experienced and respected members here. Such a great storehouse of info here.

Ha ha ha, yes, you are doing something right! I hope so as well. For some reason I feel that a small dose might work better for me. I read someone here was on 50 to 60 a week amd doing great while minimizing the side effects. Obviously that works for him and might not work for me, trt seems to be very individual and personalized.

 

[Marcel]

One more....

Hourly Intraday testosterone profiles in young eugonadal (healthy functional) men (1973-1983)

https://forums.t-nation.com/t/24-hour-tt-profiles-in-young-eugondal-healthy-functional-men-1970s-1980s/277585 Enjoy. There's no way I am copying these graphs again so sorry you have to view this on another site. I reached way back for you guys. 1970s-1980s back when we had "REAL" men...

www.excelmale.com

24 Hour TT Profiles in Young, Healthy Functional Men [1973-1983]

TLDR (great suggestion by @kazuya_mishima1): Danny and the TOT folks are mistaken to put it politely with respect to pharmacokinetics and dose response of injectable exogeneous testosterone. They act like it’s some mystery how you will respond to injectable testosterone. It really isn’t and...

forums.t-nation.com

Thank you!!

 

[tareload]

Those are most valuable 2 cents I've ever seen, also Dany Bossa doesn't seem to like you

Also "natural" vs "TRT" TT levels of 1000 ng/dl...equivalent/comparable?

'Natural' Levels vs TRT Levels?

Let’s say, hypothetically speaking, someone on TRT has a T level of 1000. His identical twin brother has a natural T level of 1000. Will there be any difference in muscle building potential, muscle proteïne syntesis and/or body composition after some time? In other words; provides TRT benefits...

forums.t-nation.com

 

[tareload]

Ha ha ha, yes, you are doing something right! I hope so as well. For some reason I feel that a small dose might work better for me. I read someone here was on 50 to 60 a week amd doing great while minimizing the side effects. Obviously that works for him and might not work for me, trt seems to be very individual and personalized.

Yes great point. I come probably too hard from the start low and go slow school...minimum effective dose for TRT. That is my bias.

Some want to skip those first few conservative months as a waste of time but I prefer to not give any advice over the internet that will really hurt some guy. Informed consent is critical. Starting a guy a 150 mg/week test cyp as blanket advice is dumb IMO. Especially as a general rule of thumb over the internet by a guy who has no medical training and poor math/science/biology skills and no clinical experience!

 

[Marcel]

Yes great point. I come probably too hard from the start low and go slow school...minimum effective dose for TRT. That is my bias.

Some want to skip those first few conservative months as a waste of time but I prefer to not give any advice over the internet that will really hurt some guy. Informed consent is critical. Starting a guy a 150 mg/week test cyp as blanket advice is dumb IMO. Especially as a general rule of thumb over the internet by a guy who has no medical training and poor math/science/biology skills and no clinical experience!

Very true. I think that starting slowly and adjust accordingly is a lot better and safer than starting high and then lowering the dose, I think that's when most problems start. But then again, I'm also some random dude online who knows way less than 99% of people in this forum.

 

[tareload]

Effect of High Testosterone Levels on Endothelial Function in Aorta and Erectile Function in Rats

Testosterone is an important hormone for the physical and mental health of men; however testosterone administration has also been suggested to adverse…

www.sciencedirect.com

Genetic analyses implicate complex links between adult testosterone levels and health and disease - Communications Medicine

Leinonen et al. investigate correlations between testosterone levels and disease using genetic and health registry data from the UK Biobank and FinnGen. There is a lack of evidence for normal variation in testosterone levels having a causal contribution to most non-sex-specific traits.

www.nature.com

Supplementary Info:

https://static-content.springer.com/esm/art%3A10.1038%2Fs43856-022-00226-0/MediaObjects/43856_2022_226_MOESM14_ESM.pdf

 

[tareload]

5 years on and off TRT/TRT+ this month. Started back on 60 mg/week test cyp in June 2022 along with SSRI to combat horrible panic/anxiety I have fought with since AFIB in 2020. Ramped up to 120 mg/week over last 8 months in 1 month steps of 20 mg/week. Intermittent hCG at 400 IU twice weekly.

Today…6’5" 240 lbs. Age: old enough haha. 34" waist. You can guess the bodyfat. Added about 10 lb last few months: this is level of BF I try to maintain year round.




What’s achievable on 100 to 120 mg/week Test cyp if you know what you are doing and give it time? You won't know till you try.

Was told I am a liar and some 20 yr old in mommy's basement by some forum hero. Want pics? There you go.

Keep grinding guys!!

 

[Deleted member 43589]

AWSOME! Knowing how far you have come, this is remarkable. I had the same issue on another board from a basement dweller. He refused to believe that anyone my age or even past 50 could ever maintain low body fat and keep a good physique. All I had to do was post a picture of my old friend Dave Draper (RIP) at 76 years old. You are proof that anything is possible if you stay dedicated and work hard. Age is no excuse to let yourself go. Congratulations!

 

[tareload]

AWSOME! Knowing how far you have come, this is remarkable. I had the same issue on another board from a basement dweller. He refused to believe that anyone my age or even past 50 could ever maintain low body fat and keep a good physique. All I had to do was post a picture of my old friend Dave Draper (RIP) at 76 years old. You are proof that anything is possible if you stay dedicated and work hard. Age is no excuse to let yourself go. Congratulations!

Bless you BigTex. I appreciate your kind words and you are a hero of mine on here. I'll never lift the totals you had but will try to keep up the physique. 5 yr on and off TRT for me this month.

As I shared on here a few days ago the last pic is 7 months after I started TRT and then 2 months on 100 mg/week nandrolone. That was 4 years ago. Took me a while to lose the fat after letting myself go for a while and then some time to build the muscle back. I can definitely hold additional lean mass on 100 mg/week Test Ester at decent BF level.

Thank you Friend.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

Four years! That is the kind of dedication it takes to do what you did. I am very impressed. As you discovered this process is a life long change. Keep it up! i preach this to my students that if you don't like what you see in the mirror then fix it.

 

[Deleted member 43589]

The main issue that you are hitting on is clinically diagnosable body distortion (dysmorphia). Men on TRT who train hard, eat religiously, and take their TT to upper end physiological or even slightly supraphyiological levels in order to obtain body composition changes should not be chastised. Lethargy and obesity should be chastised.

Men who eat poorly, train mediocre, and take excessive androgens/anabolics to obtain muscle hypertrophy with little work should be discouraged from their abuse or AAS.

The line between body dysmorphia and fitness goals is not well defined. However, we should be highly cautious in describing men and women as dysmorphic when exhibiting behaviors that improve quality of life, body composition, and health.

ABSOLUTELY. This is why I get so put out about the terms "doping" and "abuse" when science comes to comparing people who chose to use steroids and those who don't. We live in a society that pats obesity on the back and shames men/women who want to be in great shape. We also shame athletes who use anabolic steroids, yet we scorn them when they don't perform to our expectations.

 

[tareload]

Four years! That is the kind of dedication it takes to do what you did. I am very impressed. As you discovered this process is a life long change. Keep it up! i preach this to my students that if you don't like what you see in the mirror then fix it.

About 10 years from first pic in series above to the BW photo from today. About a year to strip off the fat and another few years to build muscle back on. Stalled since the 2020 fiasco but trying to get back there. Thanks again.

 

[Willyt]

About 10 years from first pic in series above to the BW photo from today. About a year to strip off the fat and another few years to build muscle back on. Stalled since the 2020 fiasco but trying to get back there. Thanks again.

Great stuff. Has your original Afib issue resolved itself over time? My father had that and it was hell

 

[Fernando Almaguer]

About 10 years from first pic in series above to the BW photo from today. About a year to strip off the fat and another few years to build muscle back on. Stalled since the 2020 fiasco but trying to get back there. Thanks again.

Impressive man! What does your training look like now and how has is progressed over those ten years?