What is the testosterone dose for muscle gain?

[buggies100]

Some of the guys I work out with know that i inject T. It has come up why then do I not put on more gains, I do heavy rssitance training and little cardio. I explained that I am on a theraputic dose. Shoot I take a paltry 30 mg twice a week to keep red blood cells in line, so i could never do the super dosing that alot of body builders do.
At what levels do you begin to see substantial mass gains in the gym? I thought i read where guys may use 1500 mg/ injection when cycling on. I would die of a stroke in a matter of weeks doing that heavy dosage!!!

 

[madman]

Some of the guys I work out with know that i inject T. It has come up why then do I not put on more gains, I do heavy rssitance training and little cardio. I explained that I am on a theraputic dose. Shoot I take a paltry 30 mg twice a week to keep red blood cells in line, so i could never do the super dosing that alot of body builders do.
At what levels do you begin to see substantial mass gains in the gym? I thought i read where guys may use 1500 mg/ injection when cycling on. I would die of a stroke in a matter of weeks doing that heavy dosage!!!

Most on trt doses are usually injecting 100-150mg/week mind you everyone does not use the same injection frequency as some inject once weekly, twice weekly (every 3.5 days), three times weekly (M/W/F), EOD, or even daily as they split up their weekly doses. Mind you there are some who inject higher doses than 150mg/week and are using up to 200mg/week but that dose is not common as it would put most men's FT levels very high/absurdly high. Trt doses generally put a man's testosterone levels in the physiological/slightly supra-physiological range and using injections tends to cause supra-physiological peaks (short-lived) which can be lessened by injecting more frequently with smaller doses of testosterone as this will result in more stable blood levels and soften the peaks/valleys and one would end up with less drastic variances between peak and trough levels. Trt doses allowing one to reach the high-end/slightly supra-physiological range usually allow one to build some muscle/lose body fat especially when lifting weights and diet is in check. Trt can result in good body composition changes (more muscle/less fat) but to really start to see an increase in muscle/strength one would have to inject doses of testosterone to cause blood levels to remain well into the supra-physiological range and the higher the better improvements to a certain degree and the doses required are usually a minimum of 200mg/week but on average 250-600mg/week are the doses where one would really start to see drastic improvements in muscle/strength gains. Mind you genetics still plays a critical role as some can use doses on the lower end of 250mg/week and see great results whereas others may need amounts in the higher end of 400-600mg/week. It is more common for amateur/pro bodybuilders to use the insane doses of 1000+ mg/week of testosterone let alone stacking of various AAS (injectables/orals) as most average gym rats are not using these insane amounts mind you they may also be stacking testosterone with other AAS (injectables/orals). Diet is also critical to gaining muscle mass when using testosterone as one would need a surplus of calories and enough protein to see results.

 

[Vince]

Here's a good post by Nelson.

Doses over 200 mg per week tend to increase hematocrit a lot more and tend to decrease good HDL cholesterol. If both variables are OK, then you probably can get away with higher doses.


What is the highest testosterone level for long term health ?

 

[Nelson Vergel]

125 mg per week was found to make significant muscle gains in young men
Responses of different doses of testosterone injections on body composition, strength, etc.

Testosterone Injections Increase Muscle and Strength Better than T gels

 

[Mountain Man]

Some of the guys I work out with know that i inject T. It has come up why then do I not put on more gains, I do heavy rssitance training and little cardio. I explained that I am on a theraputic dose. Shoot I take a paltry 30 mg twice a week to keep red blood cells in line, so i could never do the super dosing that alot of body builders do.
At what levels do you begin to see substantial mass gains in the gym? I thought i read where guys may use 1500 mg/ injection when cycling on. I would die of a stroke in a matter of weeks doing that heavy dosage!!!

Keep in mind that there a lot of other reasons you gain- diet, types of lifts you do, genetics, sleep and recovery etc. I am older, but have T levels that run between 700 - 800, so I thought that I’d gain size. I have gained a lot of muscle in the past year and a half, but minimal size. What I have gained is energy, strength, and density. You may just take longer to gain. How long have you been on TRT? I had minimal gains for about 6 months and when changes started, it was in muscularity, not size.

You may may have to be patient, squat and deadlift a little more. If you are younger that 35, I’d guess the answer lies in your routines and diet. If you are older, be satisfied with getting shredded. It’s cool to be an old guy that horrifies people when he takes off his shirt.

 

[Loki]

Keep in mind that there a lot of other reasons you gain- diet, types of lifts you do, genetics, sleep and recovery etc. I am older, but have T levels that run between 700 - 800, so I thought that I'd gain size. I have gained a lot of muscle in the past year and a half, but minimal size. What I have gained is energy, strength, and density. You may just take longer to gain. How long have you been on TRT? I had minimal gains for about 6 months and when changes started, it was in muscularity, not size.

You may may have to be patient, squat and deadlift a little more. If you are younger that 35, I'd guess the answer lies in your routines and diet. If you are older, be satisfied with getting shredded. It's cool to be an old guy that horrifies people when he takes off his shirt.

I like being the middle aged guy that horrifies in an T-shirt... ... With a pump my arms are close to 20 inches... I get looks but I honestly just think people are looking at me like I am a freak but I'll still take it!!! I am starting to lean and using the stack religiously and I'm starting to get VERY vascular too...

 

[JasonLu]

Thanks for explaining

 

[Weasel]

I like being the middle aged guy that horrifies in an T-shirt... ... With a pump my arms are close to 20 inches... I get looks but I honestly just think people are looking at me like I am a freak but I'll still take it!!! I am starting to lean and using the stack religiously and I'm starting to get VERY vascular too...

Care to elaborate on the bolded?

 

[Loki]

Care to elaborate on the bolded?

Gene's Nitric Stack... Reference the thread on this forum. I have posted some before and after pics on it for my results as well...

 

[Weasel]

Gene's Nitric Stack... Reference the thread on this forum. I have posted some before and after pics on it for my results as well...

Ah gotcha, I've read his stack before, just didn't know what you were referring to. Thanks!

 

[lexer]

125 mg per week was found to make significant muscle gains in young men
Responses of different doses of testosterone injections on body composition, strength, etc.

i agree. With 125 mgs per week i look like im on a cycle.
i do well at 75 mgs per week.

 

[Gene Devine]

30 mg injected twice a week is only going to suppress HPTA and not provide enough supplementation for you to see any benefit from TRT whatsoever.

At the very least 50 mg twice weekly would serve you much better and healthier as well.

 

[Mountain Man]

I like being the middle aged guy that horrifies in an T-shirt... ... With a pump my arms are close to 20 inches... I get looks but I honestly just think people are looking at me like I am a freak but I'll still take it!!! I am starting to lean and using the stack religiously and I'm starting to get VERY vascular too...

Yes, you are that guy. Nice work!

 

[madman]

125 mg per week was found to make significant muscle gains in young men
Responses of different doses of testosterone injections on body composition, strength, etc.

Looking at the graph for changes in fat free mass the 125mg/week group and 300mg/week group resulted in significant changes compared to the 25mg/week and 50mg/week group which is understandable as 25mg and 50mg are very low doses which would result in sub par testosterone levels and the 600mg/week group resulted in significant changes compared to all other groups (25mg/50mg/125mg/300mg). I think the use of significant is some what misleading as sure there was big change at 125mg/week and slightly better at 300mg/week and much better at 600mg/week. I think that trt doses (100-150mg/week for most) can result in body composition changes but I would not necessarily say significant. I still think that 200mg/week minimum which would put most mens testosterone levels in the supra-physiological ranges would be when one would really notice big changes in muscle growth and even than most cycling steroids for the main purpose of building muscle/strength on average are injecting 400-600mg of testosterone weekly and at those levels is when one would notice the best gains. Of course training/diet are key to increasing muscle gains but ones genetics will always have the final say as some can grow really well using doses in the minimal end (200-250mg/week) where as others need much higher levels (400-600mg/week) to attain results. If 125mg/week let alone 150mg/week resulted in truly significant gains in muscle than no one would use/abuse testosterone/aas as everyone would be basically using trt doses. Having ones testosterone levels in the supra-physiological range will result in more significant gains in muscle than one having their testosterone levels at the upper end of the physiological range. The op was asking when one would really start to notice substantial gains in muscle.
SUBSTANTIAL is the key word to me and I would definitely say not from trt doses of testosterone but supra-physiological levels whether ( 2-10x the upper end (high/normal) of the physiological range).

 

[buggies100]

Actually i feel famtastic at this doseage, sex 2-3 times weekly, lots of energy, great metal clarity, no anxiety hct managable
I have been on test cyp for almost 4 years. Started 200 mg every two weeks. Moved to 30 mg 3.5 days and all is good.

 

[buggies100]

Thanks mountain man. I am 54 and been on trt of almost 4 years. My T rums mod 500's on thi slow dose and hct is manageable. I have put on some mass and definition. I was just wondering what level it is to make suprphysical gains. I will never go there, just curious

 

[Josh Randall]

Most on trt doses are usually injecting 100-150mg/week mind you everyone does not use the same injection frequency as some inject once weekly/twice weekly(every 3.5 days)/three times weekly(M/W/F)/EOD or even daily as they split up there weekly doses. Mind you there are some who inject slightly higher doses than 150mg/week as some with low shbg need higher doses to reach high/normal physiological testosterone levels and are using up to 200mg/week but that dose is not common as it would put most in the supra-physiological range. Trt doses generally put a mans testosterone levels in the physiological range whether mid/normal to high/normal and using injections tends to cause supra-physiological peaks (short lived) which can be lessened by injecting more frequently with smaller doses of testosterone as this will result in more stable blood levels and soften the peaks/valleys and one would end up with less drastic variances between peak and trough levels. Trt doses allowing one to reach the high/normal physiological range usually allow one to build some muscle/lose body fat especially when lifting weights and diet is in check. Trt can result in good body composition changes (more muscle/less fat) but to really start to see an increase in muscle/strength one would have to inject doses of testosterone to cause blood levels to remain in the supra-physiological range and the higher the better improvements to a certain degree and the doses required are usually a minimum of 200mg/week but on average 250-500mg/week are the doses where one woulkd really start to see drastic improvements in muscle/strength gains. Mind you genetics still plays a critical role as some can use doses on the lower end 200-250mg/week and see great results where as others may need amounts in the higher end 400-500mg/week. It is more common for amateur/pro bodybuilders to use the insane doses of 1000mg/week of testosterone let alone stacking of various aas (injectables/orals) as most average gym rats are not using these insane amounts mind you they may also be stacking testosterone with other aas (injectables/orals). Diet is also critical to gaining muscle mass when using testosterone as one would need a surplus of calories and enough protein to see results.

I'm 63 on 50 mgs every 3.5 days which puts me at 1100 tt the day before injection. Weather I'm an "over responder" or I need to lower my dose is for another thread I suppose. As for this topic, I made good gains in the gym at that dose since starting last Jan, putting on about 5 lbs of muscle. In May I wanted to try upping the dose to see the results as I had lifted "natural" all my life. I can tell you just going from 100 mgs to 200mgs was significant if not dramatic in what I looked like. It was like a 24 hour a day pump. I only stayed on that higher dose for about a month.

 

[Mountain Man]

I'm 63 on 50 mgs every 3.5 days which puts me at 1100 tt the day before injection. Weather I'm an "over responder" or I need to lower my dose is for another thread I suppose. As for this topic, I made good gains in the gym at that dose since starting last Jan, putting on about 5 lbs of muscle. In May I wanted to try upping the dose to see the results as I had lifted "natural" all my life. I can tell you just going from 100 mgs to 200mgs was significant if not dramatic in what I looked like. It was like a 24 hour a day pump. I only stayed on that higher dose for about a month.

Interesting.I'm the same age and hive toyed with trying this. Did you experience any side effects or problem? I do 100 mg weekly. Results have been good, but hard not to consider pushing it a bit.

 

[Josh Randall]

I didn't experience any sides, I did blood work about 6 weeks after I went back to the 100mgs and everything was normal

 

[Mountain Man]

I didn't experience any sides, I did blood work about 6 weeks after I went back to the 100mgs and everything was normal

I have noticed the difference between 90 mg and 110 mg once per week. My energy is much better when dose is higher. So, you noticed more strength and size? My libido has been great, but I'm not sure I want it to be any higher. How did the higher dose impact size, strength and libido?