Oh come on, seriously? Is this argument really still being used?
What is Optimal Estradiol Range for Libido/Erection
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
but who is actually to judge who the top docs in this field are. Guys from steroid forums come on man. No disrespect to dr crisler. At a time he was arguably the top guy on trt around all the forums. I went to see him and I was shocked. He had some small little office inside of another more legitimate office. It was one of the shadiest drs office ive been too. And imo if he was so popular why was I able to get an appointment any time. If I called in the morning a lot of times I could see him later that day. So my point is. Who is to say these new guys like Nichols and his boys are actually top drs. Like I said look at these men. Now if your goal is to be optimized by all means do you. But to come on forums and to quote words from a self proclaimed guru is hardly fact.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
Why not. He is basing his claims off how one is feeling. That’s hardly a way to prove a point and practice medicine. All we are trying to promote is health. If your in it for short term by all means run your levels at 2k. It’s none of my business. And sure feeling like Superman 24/7 is great too but how many natural guys in early 20s did you know like that.
Find and ask their patients. A lot of them. This is what I did with the dr Im using. Their patients are HAPPY and healthy. Most important. They are not told to lower their dose because got out of a range on a piece of paper, like many docs screw their patients. They are not putting their patients on arimidex from the get go crashing their e2 and causing osteoporosis. So ye, I think it is a matter of common sense.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
We can go back and forth all day with this. “A lot” of them is hardly any sort of fact. We just asking you to bring some thing other then hearsay to the discussion that’s all. I’m personally going to try and boost my levels higher then I have before since I haven’t had much success with trt. But when I asked on the group why I have had bad side effects from going up to 120mg per week all the specialists disappeared. If I have no sides at 100mg but sides at 120mg. Is raising it even further going to stop the sides ? Honest question
I will try to find studies with larger doses. I see a huge problem in that thread with lab numbers obsession.
So what side effects do you feel? Of course if you have side effects of too high levels raising will be counter productive. You know the low t symptoms, you know the too high t side effects. Why dont you base mainly on those 2 what to do?
Also if you do not inject daily, a lot of people get sides from that. Im happy I didnt tried some more rare protocol with my sensitivity...
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
Yeah I’m not obsessed about labs either. As long as my rbc liver and lipids stay inline I’m open to whatever makes me feel good. Like I said I can agree with you on all of it. Just like to see facts when people start speaking in absolutes that’s all.
as for my protocol I’ve tried daily’s,eod,m-w-f. Once a week. Not much different. My sides at 120 where anxiety higher bp,sleep issues,snoring,water retention,tinnitus. I was at that dose for a few months so how much longer could I wait for it to go away?
Im doing 20mg sustanon daily and 100 UI HCG daily. My SHBG pre TRT was 51, now is 42
So maybe it is really too much for you with those sides.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
But I don’t get much symptom relief from 100mg per week. I get that maybe some of my issues are more then just testosterone. But I should be feeling a lot better from my natural levels of 168 total. But I don’t
For how long have you stayed on every day protocol and what were the levels then?
Also how are your thyroid numbers and more specifically FT3?
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
I did daily probably 8 weeks or more.
Thyroid numbers are decent. I tried boosting them with t3 years ago with dr john and it was terrible. Trt does Lower my already low normal cortisol unless I use an ssri. Even 60mg per week of t lowered my cortisol to 6am fasting. On lexapro and trt it actually shot up to 17 and I felt way better. I know some issues are cortisol related but haven’t found a way other then ssri to fix. I got shit all over on the ******** group about that but non of the guys had any solution for it. They sure love to argue the same points over and over but don’t have any answers for the tough questions. I really like the one dr Jordan grant but he kind of over simplifies it. Dr crisler used to do the same thing. I proved him wrong a few times with my saliva and cortisol results and how I felt and he told me no way trt can lower cortisol. He always said how can fixing one thing make another worse I thought that was divert ignorant coming from a guru of hormones. I don’t know the human body is super complex and has feedback loops and like homeostasis just to name a few reasons !
I also have cortisol issues and I understand you. What I know for sure if you have low cortisol you cannot take T3! Im also very sensitive to T3 and cannot tolerate more than 6mcg. I think my sleeping issues can be due to cortisol.
In my humble opinion if you have cortisol issues, TRT can worsen them even if it fixes other things. And yes, very few doctors understand how to fix adrenal issues. The best one I can recommend you that really knows how to treat this stuff and is a TRT expert is dr Eric Sorano. He is not doing telemedicine and he wants you to go on site to see you physically. Old school guy, but very knowledgeable. In one podcast he said he had a female patient that woke up 2am every morning. He gave her cortisol before bed and her family doc thought he is crazy. But in this way he moved her cortisol cycle and her sleep was fixed.
So yes for such things forget forums and ******** groups will help you. This is too subtle.
Vonko, since you shbg is elevated similar to mine have you improved by doing daily shots? Just curious because most of my time has been on injections and I’ve always seemed to feel better doing once weekly shots. I’m currently trying 3 times a week but have just started so it’s too early to tell. I really don’t want to do more frequent than that unless I do topical. I’m just wondering if you switched from once weekly or twice weekly and how you ended up on daily.
Charliebizz
Well-Known Member
i legit just read a post on the group about a guy who feels better controlling estrogen with a.i and he is a patient of serrano. He also said how last visit was super rushes said he would call back and never did. I don’t need to waste money with a dr like that.
yes 5 mcg of t3 sent me into full blown panic attacks. And I stayed on it for almost 2 months before I couldn’t take the daily attacks. I also tried hc a few times with crisler and another local dr and I ended up feeling worse. So far low dose ssri is the only thing that helped me tolerate trt. And dr mariano talked about that in the past.
how are you feeling overall on trt ?
Appassionato
Active Member
This is the latest big sample study about testosterone levels I'm aware of:
Harmonized Reference Ranges for Circulating Testosterone Levels in Men of Four Cohort Studies in the United States and Europe
No one hit even 1000 ng/dL. We can argue there's a shady insurance company behind this, but that is the result.
Harmonized Reference Ranges for Circulating Testosterone Levels in Men of Four Cohort Studies in the United States and Europe
No one hit even 1000 ng/dL. We can argue there's a shady insurance company behind this, but that is the result.
Last edited:
Appassionato
Active Member
Reminds me of Dr. Crisler when he was acclaimed the almighty guru of TRT.
I had a consultation with him and it has been the worst I ever had in my life. Worst protocol ever.
He was then ridiculed by Jay Campbell and his followers before committing suicide. May he rest in peace.
Story keeps repeating.
Im far better than before TRT, sleep got a little bit worse and hope to fix that. Otherwise I had anxiety and depression pre trt that are gone, libido is better, I spend now more time with the opposite sex and also started to gain muscle. Need to put also my diet under control it increased since TRT. Now is 22:00 here I felt sudden urge of hunger and headache, took small 180 calories protein bar and feel better now. Crushed blood sugar is also connected to cortisol
Appassionato
Active Member
I've chased cortisol for years in my life with no success. If your sleep sucks, your cortisol will spike. It's a dog chasing his tails.
You can't sleep because because you're running supra physiological hormonal levels.
The sooner you get that, the sooner you will fix your problem.
There are plenty of people on this forum taking ambien, ibuprofen and all that trash to sedate themselves, just because they thought the higher the testosterone the better.
I hope you won't learn the hard way.
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