UPDATE // New Member w/TRT protocol from Defy. Please compare, critique and advise!

[Systemlord]

Wow, I was about 23-24 before I started TRT 6 months ago. After three months, it went down to 16 and now its 9.

When I was doing 50mg twice weekly, SHBG was 16, 20mg EOD it was 22. Excess androgen lowers SHBG and my levels were higher on 50mg twice weekly, 677 v.s 496.

 

[Santana]

When I was doing 50mg twice weekly, SHBG was 16, 20mg EOD it was 22. Excess androgen lowers SHBG and my levels were higher on 50mg twice weekly, 677 v.s 496.

And you feel better on the lower test level? "Feel it" more?

 

[Systemlord]

And you feel better on the lower test level? "Feel it" more?

I feel better do to lower estrogen, when my Free T was 29 pg/mL (677 ng/dL, optimal range 20-25), estrogen was 70 pg/mL which is two times the reference ranges. Compared to 496 ng/dL, Free T was 20 and estrogen was 43 pg/mL.

 

[Canada878]

Would be really useful to see an e2 level to help gauge where the slow down in libido comes from (obviously can be alot of things and is multifactorial) but still

 

[Santana]

So here is an update:

Got some basic bloodwork through insurance/PCP which wouldn't cover several tests but what I did get is enough for me to share as it raises some concerns:

Testosterone, Serum ..... (241 - 827 ng/dL) ........ 1096
On trough, 60 hours post injection
SHBG ............. (10 - 50 nmol/L) ....... 9
SHBG was 24 pre-TRT, 17 three months later and 9 six months later (now)
Hematocrit ... (40% - 52%) .... 54.9
Hematocrit was 48.8 pre-TRT, 51.4 three months after, then I donated, 54.9 six months later (now)


Here is my protocol:

• T Cyp 140mg/wk (M/W/F)*
  reduced from 150mg/wk
• HCG 350iu SQ (M/W/F)
  unchanged
• Anastrozole was stopped a month ago
• DHEA 25mg every night
• Fish oil
• Vitamin D3 5000 iu daily

How am I feeling?

• Libido fizzled out, it's nowhere near 3 months ago. Morning erections are still there but that's about it.
• Energy levels are a little lower but still better than pre-TRT. Still feel good in the gym.
• Sleep is still much deeper than pre-TRT
• Body composition definitely better than pre-TRT despite only training about twice a week on average.
• Body hair growth is more aggressive
• Acne is more than pre-TRT but has subsided a little.

I'm currently waiting for some feedback from Defy. I'll update this post when they call me. Meanwhile, I'd love some feedback from this community.

Thanks!

Spoke to a Nurse (I think) at Defy today. Going to to donate tomorrow. New labs next week and then a follow up with the Doc after result are available. Probably three weeks till I get new official Doc-recommended adjustment.

Meanwhile, Nurse said to stay on 3 days but lower dose to 30mg (from 50mg). I'm all about following doctor's orders but she's not my doc. On my first follow-up, three months in, SHBG had dropped to 17 (from 24) but Doc said no change in dose schedule unless it was less than 15.

With my SHBG dropping to 9 since then, what would you guys do? EOD? ED? How far would you reduce weekly total dose?

 

[Gman86]

Spoke to a Nurse (I think) at Defy today. Going to to donate tomorrow. New labs next week and then a follow up with the Doc after result are available. Probably three weeks till I get new official Doc-recommended adjustment.

Meanwhile, Nurse said to stay on 3 days but lower dose to 30mg (from 50mg). I'm all about following doctor's orders but she's not my doc. On my first follow-up, three months in, SHBG had dropped to 17 (from 24) but Doc said no change in dose schedule unless it was less than 15.

With my SHBG dropping to 9 since then, what would you guys do? EOD? ED? How far would you reduce weekly total dose?

With that SHBG level, ED is going to yield the best results, but if that’s too much injecting, EOD should be alright. I wouldn’t go any less frequent than EOD though.

 

[Systemlord]

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but daily is the better choice.

 

[Santana]

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but daily is the better choice.

I started 16mg daily. That's 112mg/WK on daily vs 140mg/WK on three injections.

I welcome any comments on this.

 

[Systemlord]

I started 16mg daily. That's 112mg/WK on daily vs 140mg/WK on three injections.

I welcome any comments on this.

That dosage is a little high, try 12mg daily.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I started 16mg daily. That's 112mg/WK on daily vs 140mg/WK on three injections.

I welcome any comments on this.

I've injected 16mg daily for nearly five years with great success. No AI. Twelve milligrams is certainly a reasonable starting dose for daily I jectins if you are wary; stepping up - rather than stepping down - is easier if adjustments are called for.

 

[Santana]

That dosage is a little high, try 12mg daily.

I was being wary of dropping too much. My first adjustment was from 150mg/wk to 140mg... 16mg daily is 112mg total for the week.

Do we "absorb" more of the exogenous on daily injections? Is this why 16mg/daily is high?

 

[CoastWatcher]

I was being wary of dropping too much. My first adjustment was from 150mg/wk to 140mg... 16mg daily is 112mg total for the week.

Do we "absorb" more of the exogenous on daily injections? Is this why 16mg/daily is high?

Then go with 16mg. My doctor has been an advocate of daily injections for men with low SHBG and/or e2 issues for some time. Small, frequent doses of testosterone produce fewer estradiol spikes. They help a low SHBG patient maintain steady/steadier levels of total and free testosterone as the large dose given twice weekly isn't bound and lost quickly.

She (my doctor) always starts a daily injector on 16mg of enanthate, I live in Canada, because once ester weight is accounted for you are left with something close to what a healthy man would produce on a daily basis. Some of her patients adjust up, some down, some abandon daily shots for another protocol. Frankly, I love them and wish you great success.

 

[Santana]

Then go with 16mg. My doctor has been an advocate of daily injections for men with low SHBG and/or e2 issues for some time. Small, frequent doses of testosterone produce fewer estradiol spikes. They help a low SHBG patient maintain steady/steadier levels of total and free testosterone as the large dose given twice weekly isn't lost quickly. It's being given regularly.

She (my doctor) always starts a daily injector on 16mg of enanthate, I live in Canada, because once ester weight is accounted for you are left with something close to what a healthy man would produce on a daily basis. Some of her patients adjust up, some down, some abandon daily shots for another protocol. Frankly, I love them and wish you great success.

Thank you

 

[Santana]

3 month Update!

After the last post on here, I dropped HCG, AI and DHEA. I did testosterone only at 16mg/ daily for three months.

Summary

• Total Testosterone increased
• SHBG increased
• Estradiol decreased slighly
• DHEA dropped significantly
• HCT increase was much slower in 3 months than previously.
• IGF-1 came in high but I have not measured that since pre-TRT (which was 251)

I've been feeling consistently very good. Life is easier to enjoy. Less worry. More confidence. Libido increased especially in the morning. Haven't been consistent in the gym enough to speak on that but have been handling the busy life with greater ease.

Had my followup with Defy and they agreed with with what I was doing. I will be adding the DHEA back but only 12.5mg nightly. I'm thinking of running HCG low dose for a few days once a month (I like the idea of backfilling pathways just in case there is any benefit to it). I'll be watching out for sides of high estrogen if/when I do the HCG because I'm already in the 70s but feeling very good, despite it.

I have bloodwork with my PCP next month and after that I may reduce test to 14mg daily and see if estradiol and HCT stay in check. I get the feeling that testosterone levels won't drop much - daily (totalling 112mg/wk) has me at similar levels as when I was doing 50mg 3x weekly but with much better SHBG and overall mood.

Besides that, all I have to do is lower my LDL a bit and my numbers are golden!

Here are some numbers from 3 months ago and now. All feedback welcome!

 

[fifty]

why re-add dhea?

 

[Santana]

why re-add dhea?

I tend to sleep better when I am on it. Although 12.5mg isn't doing as much as 25mg, these past few days.

 

[Rabbit91476]

subQ or shallow im

 

[Santana]

subQ or shallow im

I've always done subQ

 

[SkyWarn]

3 month Update!

After the last post on here, I dropped HCG, AI and DHEA. I did testosterone only at 16mg/ daily for three months.

Summary

• Total Testosterone increased
• SHBG increased
• Estradiol decreased slighly
• DHEA dropped significantly
• HCT increase was much slower in 3 months than previously.
• IGF-1 came in high but I have not measured that since pre-TRT (which was 251)

I've been feeling consistently very good. Life is easier to enjoy. Less worry. More confidence. Libido increased especially in the morning. Haven't been consistent in the gym enough to speak on that but have been handling the busy life with greater ease.

Had my followup with Defy and they agreed with with what I was doing. I will be adding the DHEA back but only 12.5mg nightly. I'm thinking of running HCG low dose for a few days once a month (I like the idea of backfilling pathways just in case there is any benefit to it). I'll be watching out for sides of high estrogen if/when I do the HCG because I'm already in the 70s but feeling very good, despite it.

I have bloodwork with my PCP next month and after that I may reduce test to 14mg daily and see if estradiol and HCT stay in check. I get the feeling that testosterone levels won't drop much - daily (totalling 112mg/wk) has me at similar levels as when I was doing 50mg 3x weekly but with much better SHBG and overall mood.

Besides that, all I have to do is lower my LDL a bit and my numbers are golden!

Here are some numbers from 3 months ago and now. All feedback welcome!

View attachment 7526

Its interesting that you lowered your total weekly dose, but your total T actually increased by going to daily injections. I am a low SHBG guy too, at 27.17on my last labs. I am now considering going from twice a week to ED or EOD.

 

[Santana]

Its interesting that you lowered your total weekly dose, but your total T actually increased by going to daily injections. I am a low SHBG guy too, at 27.17on my last labs. I am now considering going from twice a week to ED or EOD.

Well, the previous labs were done roughly 2.5 days after the last injection which included HCG. I was on MWF schedule and this was the lowest point in my trough. That test dose was 46mg, HCG was 350iu.

Regardless, I am able to be at 1000+ test levels with much less test and without the bump from HCG. Makes me wonder why there was any "waste".