"TRT/HRT/Nutrition/Cognition/Wellness/LT student of the game"

[sammmy]

Best is to push to get the antibiotics through a doctor, to make sure you don't get fakes.

The best PPI are rabeprazole 10mg 4x/day or esomeprazole 40mg 2x/day - this is in Treatment Statement 10 of the Maastricht Consensus Report that you posted.

If you are dosing the antibiotics 2x/day, you can also dose the Bismuth 240mg 2x/day with them during/after meal.

 

[sammmy]

Bismuth may decrease absorption of drugs, so taking the PPI 1 hour before the Bismuth is advised. They don't do that with Pylera (they just take all the drugs after meals) so it may not matter.

 

[Belekas]

Best is to push to get the antibiotics through a doctor, to make sure you don't get fakes.

The best PPI are rabeprazole 10mg 4x/day or esomeprazole 40mg 2x/day - this is in Treatment Statement 10 of the Maastricht Consensus Report that you posted.

If you are dosing the antibiotics 2x/day, you can also dose the Bismuth 240mg 2x/day with them during/after meal.

I'm getting all my meds from pharmacy so its all good. Wouldn't even risk it any other way. Also was thinking about Esomeprazole-Nexium 40mg 2x/day and have some ready for pickup since GP prescribed. But will have to check prices because I'm getting all from pharmacy back home at my country and the prices might be even better. Have some Rebeprazole with me though from the last treatment. Bismuth I've ordered is being held at UK customs and 50/50 chance I might have lost it already as some law came into power from July 1s but still have 9 days till the deadline as per Royal Mails advice then must contact seller and ask for refund. If that happens I'll buy it from pharmacy back home.

My docs over here have been MIA since I asked them to prolong the treatment period and wanted to includ Rifabutin as have 2 failed attempts with other antibiotics as well. So I'm still waiting what they will decide and will take it from there.

 

[Belekas]

Bismuth may decrease absorption of drugs, so taking the PPI 1 hour before the Bismuth is advised. They don't do that with Pylera (they just take all the drugs after meals) so it may not matter.

Good to know, thanks. So once I have everything will compose a plan how to take, how much and when. Will post here. Always great to have some guidance.

 

[Belekas]

Been reading about statins and will watch a documentary as well. Crooked fucking big-pharma cartels making sick money. Can't trust anything, no physicians, no research, its all a joke. Brainwashing at its finest.

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/52/14/905.full.pdf?ijkey=Rsap0XafljfcOCR&keytype=ref#:~:text=Since%20their%20introduction%20in%20the,in%20the%20history%20of%20medicine.

 

[Belekas]

Got these results today and GP ordered ACR urine test for kidney health. I need Cystatin-C done as well as Creatinine and eGFR are not precise for a muscular and hard training person I believe. What are your opinion guys? Also was severely dehydrated during the blood test and have walked probably 10km almost fasted, so maybe that had impact as on results too. Will increase water as well as I eat a lot of protein and Kidneys are taking a toll.

 

[Belekas]

Chronic kidney disease: What initial investigations should I arrange?​

CKS is only available in the UK

The NICE Clinical Knowledge Summary (CKS) site is only available to users in the UK, Crown Dependencies and British Overseas Territories

cks.nice.org.uk

Influence of Muscle Mass and Physical Activity on Serum and Urinary Creatinine and Serum Cystatin C - PMC

Background and objectives: For addressing the influence of muscle mass on serum and urinary creatinine and serum cystatin C, body composition was assessed by skinfold thickness measurement and bioelectrical impedance analyses. Design, setting, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

New test can predict complications from kidney disease

Cystatin C, a blood marker of kidney function, proved significantly more accurate than the standard blood marker, creatinine, in predicting serious complications of kidney disease, in a study by researchers at the San Francisco VA Medical Center and UCSF.

www.ucsf.edu

 

[Belekas]

Tomorrow is my T shot day and I'm dropping the dose to 50mg/week split e4d because of gut treatment. As we know now that T most likely makes gut harder to heal given some research papers shared by members of the forum that I respect. So will run 50mg/week during the course of treatment and see how things go.

Today day #4 and pain returned after breakfast when I was finishing my workout and doing my starimaster cardio and leaning forward a bit probably giving pressure to my chest and that irritated area. So my bad here. Also had some eggs with ground beef for breakfast so might have been eggs as well. And also had some water from the tap in the gym as well as mine ran out. Also I drank Aloe Vera in the morning and took some Glutamine. Will put those aside now and eat only beef. See what happens tomorrow. Still good progress as 3 days I was pretty much 80-90% and used zero meds. Will do 4xcaps Zinc Carnosine per day as well.

Energy wise I feel like death. Zero carbs is making me feel empty and mood wise depressed i'd say. Training very light as feel like shit. Not a fun feeling but all for the sake of healing. I'd kill for a bowl of rice or watermelon lol Sleeping not too bad but wake up feeling like death. Probably lost around 10kg since this pain came back again. Put on 10kg in 6 months, give it all back in 2. Fuck this shit. Lifes unfair hehe But anyway I'm gonna suck it up and keep on fighting one day at a time!

Sooo nearly 2 weeks since I've cut my dose from 100mg to 50mg per week and what can I say I'm feeling like a complete hot fucking mess LMAO Mid day I crash like a rock, RHR goes up and I start feeling like flu symptoms, which goes away into the evening, RHR falls and night comes. Also I slept like a baby and now started having shitty ass sleep as well FWIW. Today barely slept at all. So absolutely the 50mg/week feels like not enough and not sure if I will wait longer feeling like this. I think this is not Carnivore related but def TRT issue. Tomorrow is my injection day and I will (most likely) go back to 80-100mg where I felt/slept/felt the best. TBH I didn't believe I will feel something like this but fuck me its like night and day! I felt 100x better without TRT then I do now.

No meat, training or sex today, before fasted morning ACR urine kidney-health test for the "smart" GP who has no idea that people with a lot more lean muscle mass, who train like beasts for decades need to be tested differently then all the other folks drinking sodas and eating chips for life. No disrespect but they could have saved me time and them as well and will try to have them put this on their file so next time we don't have to run in circles and still don't get the required result because of this.

No updated from Endos regarding HP-treatment and my boy will know next week if he can get Rifabutin and all the other stuff I need from pharmacy back home. Fingers crossed for the best outcome but always prepared for the worst. Lets see what happens.

More power to you guys, hope you all are smashing it!

Regards,
Bel

 

[Belekas]

Also I had one cheatmeal few days ago at McDonalds around 2000kcal, first heavy carb load in 3 weeks, and was so good and digested beautifully. Also today had only Beef for breakfast and won't eat more meat till after the ACR urine test tomorrow. So had 4 eggs with 4 toasts with butter, 2 big ass muffins and a millionaire bar lol Everything went down just like that, no pain, no bloating, nothing. Unbelieve human physiology and a lot of times I just can't explain how the fuck something happens. All I know is that Carnivore heals absolutely 100%! Just hope that I'm feeling fatigued and low because of reduced TRT dose and not because I'm mostly eating Beef and some cheese and very rarely put some carbs in since a few days ago and get this flu. But I'm not sure and hope to find out going forward.

 

[Belekas]

P.s. also I'm boiling some organic, non gmo flax seeds in water till it gets a bit sluggy. Letting it cool and drinking a cup 20-30mings before every meal. Thats my Moms oldschool recipe and helps to coat the stomach lining. Def feels good once I drink it and then roll on the bed a bit hehe. Thought I'll share every little detail I've been doing,)

 

[Gman86]

@Belekas so glad to hear that going mostly carnivore has helped so much! It’s truly amazing how fast the body can heal when u simply give it what it needs, and stop constantly insulting it with things that are damaging it

It does take a little time for the body to adjust to running off of ketones for energy, so I assume that the way ur feeling is mostly due to u needing a higher dose of test, like u said, and partly because ur body still might be adjusting to using ketones as it’s main energy source. If I were u I would up ur dose to 100mg/ week, and see if how u feel improves. If u end up feeling better at around 3-4 weeks, than u do at say 4-6 weeks, maybe u overshot ur dose with 100mg, and 80mg might serve u better.

and I’m all for home remedies, and not trying to disrespect ur mom in any way lol, but my gut tells me that trying to improve ur stomach lining with flax seed sludge is pointless. There’s nothing our bodies need from seeds. Our stomach linings can be optimal without them. Eat as close to carnivore as u can, get enough protein in, avoid any foods that mess with the gut, get enough water everyday, and ur stomach lining will be as healthy as it possibly can be. No need for flax seed sludge lol. Our stomachs don’t need anything additional to coat it. A healthy mucosal lining of the stomach is all we need. Here’s a pretty good post on Reddit about carnivore and the gut

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[Belekas]

@Belekas so glad to hear that going mostly carnivore has helped so much! It’s truly amazing how fast the body can heal when u simply give it what it needs, and stop constantly insulting it with things that are damaging it

It does take a little time for the body to adjust to running off of ketones for energy, so I assume that the way ur feeling is mostly due to u needing a higher dose of test, like u said, and partly because ur body still might be adjusting to using ketones as it’s main energy source. If I were u I would up ur dose to 100mg/ week, and see if how u feel improves. If u end up feeling better at around 3-4 weeks, than u do at say 4-6 weeks, maybe u overshot ur dose with 100mg, and 80mg might serve u better.

and I’m all for home remedies, and not trying to disrespect ur mom in any way lol, but my gut tells me that trying to improve ur stomach lining with flax seed sludge is pointless. There’s nothing our bodies need from seeds. Our stomach linings can be optimal without them. Eat as close to carnivore as u can, get enough protein in, avoid any foods that mess with the gut, get enough water everyday, and ur stomach lining will be as healthy as it possibly can be. No need for flax seed sludge lol. Our stomachs don’t need anything additional to coat it. A healthy mucosal lining of the stomach is all we need. Here’s a pretty good post on Reddit about carnivore and the gut

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What do you think about my declining eGFR rate and a bit elevated Creatinine? When eating only meat I eat a lot of protein, around 250g/day, thats more then 3g/1kg atm, with that I need to drink a lot of water and still that will put some pressure on the kidneys. That is what I believe, might be not true, but the blood results shows that me eGFR has been declining. I know we have to check Cystatin-C for better accuracy and that Creatinine is nearly all the time elevated in bodybuilders but I'm interested in your opinion.

Regarding T I felt fine at 100mg/week and also at 80mg/week FWIW so will go back to 100mg/week and see if my gut issues don't flare up. As the relief can also easily be because I've lowered my TRT dose to just 50mg/week. A lot of TRT users have their GERD issues flare up so thats also a possibility.

 

[Gman86]

What do you think about my declining eGFR rate and a bit elevated Creatinine? When eating only meat I eat a lot of protein, around 250g/day, thats more then 3g/1kg atm, with that I need to drink a lot of water and still that will put some pressure on the kidneys. That is what I believe, might be not true, but the blood results shows that me eGFR has been declining. I know we have to check Cystatin-C for better accuracy and that Creatinine is nearly all the time elevated in bodybuilders but I'm interested in your opinion.

Regarding T I felt fine at 100mg/week and also at 80mg/week FWIW so will go back to 100mg/week and see if my gut issues don't flare up. As the relief can also easily be because I've lowered my TRT dose to just 50mg/week. A lot of TRT users have their GERD issues flare up so thats also a possibility.

Ya idk why gerd or gut issues would arise when optimizing test levels. Testosterone and its metabolites should decrease inflammation, and improve gut function I would imagine. Can’t think of a mechanism of action of test, or its metabolites, that would cause gerd. Dr Edward lichten has podcasts where he has patients on that talk about how he cured their Crohn’s disease with hormone optimization therapy. Mainly test and nandrolone, I assume. But test and nandrolone are anti-inflammatory, at therapeutic dosages, so I really don’t know why using 100mg of test would cause gerd and gut issues.

and I’m honestly not super versed in EGFR and creatinine and cystatin-c and all that. I know the basics. I just have never had a reason to go down these rabbit holes research wise. I’ve never had kidney issues, and I have zero worry about intaking a ton of protein, and I take care of my body in all areas that I can, so I know other than having some type of illness or cancer that destroys my kidneys, they’re gonna be totally fine. So if my EGFR and/ or creatinine levels came back slightly over the top of the range, I wouldn’t be concerned even a little bit. It’s super common for creatinine to be high when u workout, and especially if ur on HRT that includes AAS on top of that. And EGFR is just an estimated calculation. I don’t put much weight into it tbh. Here‘s what my levels were the last time I checked them. If I was concerned about kidney function I would get a cystatin-c done, but I’m not, so I’ve never personally checked it

 

[Belekas]

Ya idk why gerd or gut issues would arise when optimizing test levels. Testosterone and its metabolites should decrease inflammation, and improve gut function I would imagine. Can’t think of a mechanism of action of test, or its metabolites, that would cause gerd. Dr Edward lichten has podcasts where he has patients on that talk about how he cured their Crohn’s disease with hormone optimization therapy. Mainly test and nandrolone, I assume. But test and nandrolone are anti-inflammatory, at therapeutic dosages, so I really don’t know why using 100mg of test would cause gerd and gut issues.

We've talked about this with @FunkOdyssey here before and posted some papers where T decreases stomach lining healing fwiw. Also for him is same and flares up as well. Otherwise T is anti inflammatory, thats old news. Anyway who cares whats the mechanism is as experience is priceless. Plus I'm a rare minority with my own gut issue and doctors have no idea how to treat it thus im doing all myself. Doesn't matter that others never gets the flare up what matters is how it makes me feel and how I react to it.

and I’m honestly not super versed in EGFR and creatinine and cystatin-c and all that. I know the basics. I just have never had a reason to go down these rabbit holes research wise. I’ve never had kidney issues, and I have zero worry about intaking a ton of protein, and I take care of my body in all areas that I can, so I know other than having some type of illness or cancer that destroys my kidneys, they’re gonna be totally fine. So if my EGFR and/ or creatinine levels came back slightly over the top of the range, I wouldn’t be concerned even a little bit. It’s super common for creatinine to be high when u workout, and especially if ur on HRT that includes AAS on top of that. And EGFR is just an estimated calculation. I don’t put much weight into it tbh. Here‘s what my levels were the last time I checked them. If I was concerned about kidney function I would get a cystatin-c done, but I’m not, so I’ve never personally checked it

Fair enough. I never had kidney issues as well but had a wild life which might have effected some, might not. I see declining eGFR over the last years or so but with all other tests coming back normal thats not an issue. Hopefully this time as well but i'm always careful and thinking because health aint no joke. Will see what tomorrows test brings and will do Cystatin-C in the future going forward.I have been eating tons of protein for the last 20 years and trained like a beast. So coupled with bad habits, smoking, huge stress environment fuck knows what damage it might have done. I hope for the best but always think how to improve my situation going forward.

 

[Gman86]

We've talked about this with @FunkOdyssey here before and posted some papers where T decreases stomach lining healing fwiw. Also for him is same and flares up as well. Otherwise T is anti inflammatory, thats old news. Anyway who cares whats the mechanism is as experience is priceless. Plus I'm a rare minority with my own gut issue and doctors have no idea how to treat it thus im doing all myself. Doesn't matter that others never gets the flare up what matters is how it makes me feel and how I react to it.

Fair enough. I never had kidney issues as well but had a wild life which might have effected some, might not. I see declining eGFR over the last years or so but with all other tests coming back normal thats not an issue. Hopefully this time as well but i'm always careful and thinking because health aint no joke. Will see what tomorrows test brings and will do Cystatin-C in the future going forward.I have been eating tons of protein for the last 20 years and trained like a beast. So coupled with bad habits, smoking, huge stress environment fuck knows what damage it might have done. I hope for the best but always think how to improve my situation going forward.

Ya I’m the same exact way. I never dwell. Only focus on how to fix/ improve things going forward

that’s so weird that testosterone decreases stomach lining healing. Like why would the body produce a hormone that decreases stomach lining healing? Doesn’t make sense that the body would produce something that damages itself. And if test decreases stomach lining healing, why do we not see these issues in men when they’re teenagers/ in their early twenties, when their test levels are at their peak naturally? Something sounds fishy here. My common sense meter is going nuts trying to understand how test could decrease stomach lining healing. Has to be other factors going on. Can’t just be the test

 

[Belekas]

Ya I’m the same exact way. I never dwell. Only focus on how to fix/ improve things going forward

that’s so weird that testosterone decreases stomach lining healing. Like why would the body produce a hormone that decreases stomach lining healing? Doesn’t make sense that the body would produce something that damages itself. And if test decreases stomach lining healing, why do we not see these issues in men when they’re teenagers/ in their early twenties, when their test levels are at their peak naturally? Something sounds fishy here. My common sense meter is going nuts trying to understand how test could decrease stomach lining healing. Has to be other factors going on. Can’t just be the test

Might be the carrier oils, might benzoate, who knows. @FunkOdyssey talked about this I don't remember though so maybe he can chime in when hes around.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

I think the benzyl preservative idea was wishful thinking because I ended up having similar problems with cream, it just took longer for some reason.

@Gman86 The full paper probably has more detail but this abstract lays out some possible mechanisms:

Inflammopharmacology
2008 Feb;16(1):40-7.

Gastric secretion, proinflammatory cytokines and epidermal growth factor (EGF) in the delayed healing of lingual and gastric ulcerations by testosterone​

A Machowska 1, T Brzozowski, Z Sliwowski, M Pawlik, P C Konturek, R Pajdo, A Szlachcic, D Drozdowicz, M Schwarz, J Stachura, S J Konturek, W W Pawlik

• PMID: 18046513
• DOI: 10.1007/s10787-007-1600-6

Abstract​

Hormonal fluctuations are known to predispose ulceration of the upper gastrointestinal tract, but to date no comparative study of their effects on the healing of pre-existing ulcers in the oral cavity and stomach has been made. We studied the effects of depletion of testosterone and of EGF on the healing of acetic acid-induced ulcers using rats having undergone bilateral orchidectomy and/or salivectomy respectively. We measured alterations in gastric acid secretion and blood flow at ulcer margins, as well as plasma levels of testosterone, gastrin and the proinflammatory cytokines IL-1 beta and TNF-alpha. Testosterone (0.01-10 mg/kg/day i. m.) dose-dependently delayed oral and gastric ulcer healing. When applied in an optimal dose of 1 mg/kg/day, this hormone significantly raised gastric acid secretion and plasma IL-1 beta and TNF-alpha levels. Attenuation of plasma testosterone levels via bilateral orchidectomy inhibited gastric acid secretion and accelerated the healing of oral and gastric ulcers, while increasing plasma gastrin levels and these effects were reversed by testosterone. Salivectomy raised plasma testosterone levels, and delayed oral and gastric ulcer healing. Treatment of salivectomised animals with testosterone further inhibited ulcer healing, and this effect was counteracted by EGF. We propose that testosterone delays ulcer healing via a fall in blood flow at the ulcer margin, a rise in plasma levels of IL-1 beta and TNF-alpha and, in the case of gastric ulcers, an increase in gastric acid secretion. EGF released from the salivary glands plays an important role in limitation of the deleterious effects of testosterone on ulcer healing.

 

[Gman86]

I think the benzyl preservative idea was wishful thinking because I ended up having similar problems with cream, it just took longer for some reason.

@Gman86 The full paper probably has more detail but this abstract lays out some possible mechanisms:

Definitely interesting stuff. Obv this study is in rats, so not sure how much applies to humans, and not sure what those dosages would equal if they did this same study in humans, but it’s definitely something to consider and be open to as a possibility at least. My gut is still telling me that theres no way testosterone, at a therapeutic dose, would induce negative effects like this on the human body, and if it somehow does, it’s probably a similar case to how cholesterol is one of the most vital substances in our bodies, and only works against us when the body is not working properly, and there’s insults to the arterial walls that cholesterol has to plug up. Cholesterol isn’t the bad guy, it’s all the other negative things someone is doing to their body that is causing cholesterol to look like the bad guy. I would assume the same thing is going on here. Testosterone in a healthy body is not going to have a negative effect like this on the body. There’s just no way evolution would allow this to be the case. If testosterone can have this effect, it must be due to other things going wrong in the body, that consequently then causes testosterone to have this effect. The human body just wouldn’t produce an endogenous hormone, at normal levels, that can cause negative effects within the body. It’s just not how the body has evolved over millions of years to function

 

[sammmy]

Sex and Gender Differences in Gastroesophageal Reflux Disease - PMC

It is important to understand sex and gender-related differences in gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD) because gender-related biologic factors might lead to better prevention and therapy. Non-erosive reflux disease (NERD) affects more women than ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Definitely interesting stuff. Obv this study is in rats, so not sure how much applies to humans, and not sure what those dosages would equal if they did this same study in humans, but it’s definitely something to consider and be open to as a possibility at least. My gut is still telling me that theres no way testosterone, at a therapeutic dose, would induce negative effects like this on the human body, and if it somehow does, it’s probably a similar case to how cholesterol is one of the most vital substances in our bodies, and only works against us when the body is not working properly, and there’s insults to the arterial walls that cholesterol has to plug up. Cholesterol isn’t the bad guy, it’s all the other negative things someone is doing to their body that is causing cholesterol to look like the bad guy. I would assume the same thing is going on here. Testosterone in a healthy body is not going to have a negative effect like this on the body. There’s just no way evolution would allow this to be the case. If testosterone can have this effect, it must be due to other things going wrong in the body, that consequently then causes testosterone to have this effect. The human body just wouldn’t produce an endogenous hormone, at normal levels, that can cause negative effects within the body. It’s just not how the body has evolved over millions of years to function

I think I mostly agree with you, but when you say normal levels shouldn't cause harm, how we define normal is important. For example, my baseline free T was about 11 ng/dl and then i sent it up over 20+ ng/dl with some cream and my stomach started acting up. I might still have been in the normal range (barely), but normal for who? Not normal for me if my body likes to sit at 11.

Talking about benefits for most people that certain vulnerable types can't handle, if testosterone increases gastric acid secretion like it did in those rats, that could explain some of the experiences we're having.

We know there are tradeoffs inherent with increased testosterone because otherwise we would have evolved to have more. Maybe it sends more amino acids to the skeletal muscles instead of repairing the gut, the way it depletes your iron stores by directing all of it to RBC production. Testosterone certainly cranks up some people into a wired state with elevated HR, BP, insomnia, etc that doesn't seem conducive to the parasympathetic rest & digest program that normally maintains gut health. Just spitballing random ideas here but you get the picture that something like this could be involved.