TRT has been underwhelming for 4+ years - Low SHBG

[JQ88]

Vince Carter,

I'd love to hear your current protocol.

E2 should be quite similar to shbg for optimal sexual functioning. So if your SHBG is 14, then you will have to lower your e2 to around 14. You will become a stud in the bedroom, however you might experience some low e2 symptoms.

Also, since your shbg is low you need WAY LESS TESTOSTERONE.

Not more. But less.

You get more bang for your buck with low shbg.

You'd probably feel a hell of a lot better at 50mg (2x/wk)

Or even 40mg (2x/wk).

More is not always better. Especially for low shbg guys.

 

[Vince Carter]

You speak in a lot of absolutes for a highly individualistic subject.

 

[JQ88]

I have struggled to find a protocol that is consistent for almost two years now.

That's why I asked about what works for you?

I continue to be indicisive about HCG. Just not sure that it's necessary. So I go back and forth. I get bad e2 spikes from HCG, and Adex dosing becomes like hitting a moving target. Although HCG does have some benefit to my brain.

Maybe 80/80 and .25mg MWF ?

T:E ratio seeks to be most important.

You are correct it is very individualist.

Lots of trial and error.

 

[Vince Carter]

What I found is working for me and I never say I'm dialed in or where I want to be, but I am without a doubt better than I have been. Big thing that changed for me was adopting the T:E ratio. E2 management was very hard for me. Ive been overdosed on Anastrozole and tanked E2, spent a lot of my own money on frequent testing and finally got to something that I'm very happy with.

The other thing that made the diff was EOD injections. In all the testing I did trough and peak testing was one of them, when on E3.5D of 95mg. I had a 72hr trough of 814, and a 24hr peak of 1450. That's a HUGE swing in levels over 3 days time. EOD smoothed that out considerably for me.

50mg EOD
100iu HCG E3.5D
No Anastrozole

I too am not an HCG fan, tried it all: 250iu EOD, 400iu EOD, 100iu daily, and my nuts are alive and that's all. I do think that it complicates my E2 controls though but that's anecdotal. I haven't experienced increased penile sensitivity or a feeling of well being, that others report.

 

[Vince Carter]

ADmittedly I'm experimenting with 500iu HCG 2x a week right now but...not feeling anything worth reporting. Good or Bad.

 

[JQ88]

Thanks Vince,

Wow. No AI.

I'm envious.

I too have tanked my e2. I've been on the low side way more than the high side.

My e2 seems to fluctuate, especially with HCG and I can't get labs every day.

It was through this forum I've learned low e2 actually means higher body fat.

So while I think the HCG is beneficial, it could just be providing the e2 boost I so desperately needed.

It's amazing the difference of opinion regarding HCG on trt. Like you said, it's individdualistic.

I'm rambling... But yeah eod seems to be the way to go.

It's that fear of high e2 that I need to get over and just stick with a protocol for a month get labs and adjust.

60/250/.25 (2x/wk) gave me good results. But the e2 spike from HCG was strong and noticeably for a good 24-36 hours.

 

[CoastWatcher]

Thanks Vince,

Wow. No AI.

I'm envious.

I too have tanked my e2. I've been on the low side way more than the high side.

My e2 seems to fluctuate, especially with HCG and I can't get labs every day.

It was through this forum I've learned low e2 actually means higher body fat.

So while I think the HCG is beneficial, it could just be providing the e2 boost I so desperately needed.

It's amazing the difference of opinion regarding HCG on trt. Like you said, it's individdualistic.

I'm rambling... But yeah eod seems to be the way to go.

It's that fear of high e2 that I need to get over and just stick with a protocol for a month get labs and adjust.

60/250/.25 (2x/wk) gave me good results. But the e2 spike from HCG was strong and noticeably for a good 24-36 hours.

Trying to track estradiol peaks and troughs without lab work is an effort in frustration. Do you confirm these subjective feelings with lab work, or simply adjust on the fly?

 

[JQ88]

60/250/.25 (2x/wk) at the same time had my T at 550 and e2 at 17 right before scheduled injection.

All other numbers looked good. Tsh borderline high, I have added seaweed into my diet.

However, e2 spike from HCG is unaccounted for. And Anastrozole doesn't block e2 effects from HCG anyways.

Pregnenolone levels always come back low, which opened up a whole new can of worms.

Thinking I needed HCG for preg. Does preg matter. Will a topical work?

The less drugs the better.

Is HCG necessary? I don't know.

I guess that's the first decision that I have yet to come up with.

My shbg is always low. If my TT is good my free T is great.

 

[JQ88]

But to answer your question a lot of the time I go by "feel" and do adjust "on the fly," which unfortunately is a recipe for disaster.

 

[JQ88]

My last post didn't show but 60/250/.25 (2x/wk) had my TT at 550 and e2 at 17 on the day of injection.

Doesn't account for e2 spike from HCG.

 

[CoastWatcher]

But to answer your question a lot of the time I go by "feel" and do adjust "on the fly," which unfortunately is a recipe for disaster.

Adopt a protocol, stick to it for at least a month, if not six weeks, and test. You know this, I gather, so, please, give it a try.

 

[JQ88]

Im going to. Thanku!

Going by "feel" causes nothing but indecision and frustration.

Would you personally recommend incorporating HCG or no?

Here are the protocols I'm considering...

80/80 and .25 MWF

Or 60/125/.25 (2x/wk)
-This is the one suggested to me by someone I have worked with for diet and training coaching.

Or 50/250/.25 (2x/wk)

Or nelsons 50/500 (2x/wk I don't know if he uses an AI or not

Or 50/250/.25 (e3d)

Or 70/125/.25 (2x/wk)

Or 60/60 and .25 (e5d)

Or 50/50 no HcG no AI

I'm just unsure about Hcg.

Thoughts?

 

[Vince Carter]

for a few months, I was going thru discountedlabs(?).com and getting blood drawn frequently for different tests and so forth sometimes once a week, but it was also necessary to get on a very strict protocol and stick with it. Being able to order and pay for my own tests when I wanted them was crucial to seeing peak levels and trough levels of E2, primarily.
Keeping a daily diary also helped to match up to the tests.

 

[CoastWatcher]

I would not incorporate anastrozole in any protocol in the absence of confirmed high levels and symptoms of estrogen-dominance. I have never taken an AI; levels are controlled by splitting my dosing and injecting frequently. Don't be quick to assume it is needed. That has sent you down the rabbit hole in the past. When you start your protocol, you should consider opening a new thread to track it. It is a fresh topic and new threads draw more response.

 

[JQ88]

Coast watcher,

I really appreciate it man. And will definitely open up a new thread. I like this forum.

If you don't mind me asking, which protocol do you follow?

Do you recommend tapering off Adex or stopping cold turkey?

Once again.

Thanks

 

[JQ88]

Vince,

Are you still running 50mg EOD no AI?

Ero,

Have you found anything that works for you?

-Jeff

 

[ERO]

Unfortunately I have not found anything at all that works for me, although 'on paper' my protocol should be ideal. Small daily injections, daily HCG, no AI (none needed) frequent testing including thyroid. However, I have the same symptoms I started with: low to no libido, unable to build any muscle or loose any fat and if it weren't for work, I would take a nap every day after lunch.

 

[JQ88]

Ero,

Have u ever tried a significantly lower weekly dosage?

 

[ERO]

I did when I was using topicals a few years back. That felt the same as everything else - E.G., it felt the same as Low T.

 

[hardrlz]

On another forum it was mentioned that some guy managed to increase his SHBG from the single digids to normal by being on AI for 3 months, but i couldnt get more info on that. Also there is one drug called Capesaris, that is supposed to increase SHBG, but not much hope in that as well.