TRT Effect on 5 Alpha Reductase and Upstream Hormones- Cause of Low Mood and Anxiety?

[Mastodont]

anxiety and mood improved, some sort of fear of heights improved, I believe it improved my thyroid and adrenal function, better skin, erections sex drive and libido. I was hoping to see improvements in my sleep like other experienced in here, but I don't think I noticed anything in that regard

Do i remember correctly you are not taking any pregnenolone anymore?

 

[Gman86]

keep us posted, I may actually take the LC/MS as well, I think there has been some inconsistency with my Progesterone testing since the beginning as well

Ya would love to see where ur levels sit on the LC/MS progesterone test. Would u be getting it done at quest?

What’s ur injectable prog protocol atm? Like dosage, frequency, time of day, where u inject, and I assume u inject it subQ?

 

[Gianluca]

Do i remember correctly you are not taking any pregnenolone anymore?

correct, I take a click of a Pregn cream once in a while but not all the time. I still want to try to include it on my protocol sometime in the future though.

 

[Gianluca]

Ya would love to see where ur levels sit on the LC/MS progesterone test. Would u be getting it done at quest?

What’s ur injectable prog protocol atm? Like dosage, frequency, time of day, where u inject, and I assume u inject it subQ?

SubQ on the upper outer quadrant of my butt. I now take it every am, 1mg dose.

I still have to look at where to get my LC/MS for Progesterone.

 

[Gman86]

SubQ on the upper outer quadrant of my butt. I now take it every am, 1mg dose.

I still have to look at where to get my LC/MS for Progesterone.

Why that spot and not like ur abdominal fat? Jc

So u found that u feel better taking it in the am, opposed to before bed?

1mg seems like a solid dose. I mostly took between 1-2mg/ day, when I was using the injectable progesterone

 

[Gianluca]

Why that spot and not like ur abdominal fat? Jc

I thought I would use that spot because I already use the abdomen for daily HCG, but I always wondered if there is any difference in absorption between different SC spots for oily injectables.

So u found that u feel better taking it in the am, opposed to before bed?

I'm no sure actually, my doc suggested to take it in the am since I was complaining of some sleep disturbances, and he mentioned that Pro at night may increase Cortisol.

 

[Gianluca]

@Cataceous what would you estimate is the peak time and half life of a 2.5mg ( 0.05 ml ) Progesterone Injection suspended in oil injected SC, considering its IM peak time is "within 8 hrs" at 10mg ( .2ml )?

 

[Seagal]

Interesting. I heard about the saturation for E2 and DHT with higher Test level before but never looked at the mechanism. The enzyme saturate, but doesn't "burn" as Mark Gordon mentions, perhaps in the brain it may be different.

It is interesting to note also the saturation of the 5 ar start to happen right about or before 1000 ng/dl of TT. if I'm reading the graph correctly,

According to Mark Gordon, his patients take pregnenolone and dhea and none of them has any of these problems on TRT.

 

[Weasel]

Very interesting stuff.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I still have to look at where to get my LC/MS for Progesterone.

I am looking into it.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

I was able to add the test:

Accurate and Affordable Progesterone Test- LC/MS

This is the most accurate progesterone test that has no potential interactions and can detect very low levels in men and women. Since it is performed with liquid chromatography and mass spectrometry, results are available after 5 to 7 business days.

www.discountedlabs.com

 

[Gianluca]

I was able to add the test:

Accurate and Affordable Progesterone Test- LC/MS

This is the most accurate progesterone test that has no potential interactions and can detect very low levels in men and women. Since it is performed with liquid chromatography and mass spectrometry, results are available after 5 to 7 business days.

www.discountedlabs.com

Funny I was just looking into it last night, thanks for posting this.

Ref range for adult males is ≤0.3 ng/m, I remember seen a study showing normal levels being <.9 ng, but wondering if the different assay leads to a different ref range.

 

[FunkOdyssey]

Funny I was just looking into it last night, thanks for posting this.

Ref range for adult males is ≤0.3 ng/m, I remember seen a study showing normal levels being <.9 ng, but wondering if the different assay leads to a different ref range.

I think more accurate testing would have to trigger a reappraisal of what normal physiologic levels are in men. I'm very curious to see where the 1 mg daily dose you've been taking will land on this <= 0.3 ng/mL normal range, using the improved test method.

 

[Nelson Vergel]

Got this from AI

The normal progesterone blood levels in men, as measured by liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS), are generally low and show minimal variation across different age groups. According to the available data:

• The average serum progesterone level in adult men is approximately 0.38 ± 0.13 ng/mL.
• Another study indicates that the progesterone levels in men range from 0.15 to 0.38 ng/mL.

These levels are consistent across different age groups, with no significant changes observed in the concentration of progesterone in men as they age.

The normal progesterone blood levels in men, as measured by liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry (LC-MS/MS), are generally low and show minimal variation across different age groups. According to the available data:

- The average serum progesterone level in adult men is approximately 0.38 ± 0.13 ng/mL[5].
- Another study indicates that the progesterone levels in men range from 0.15 to 0.38 ng/mL[1].

Citations:
[1] Progesterone, LC/MS/MS
[2] Reproducibility of an assay to measure serum progesterone metabolites that may be related to breast cancer risk using liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry
[3] Combined Liquid Chromatography–Tandem Mass Spectrometry Analysis of Progesterone Metabolites
[4] Development and validation of a LC-MS/MS method for the establishment of reference intervals and biological variation for five plasma steroid hormones
[5] LC-MS/MS Method for Rapid Quantification of Progesterone in Rabbit Plasma and Its Application in a Pharmacokinetic Study of the Transdermal Formulation
[6] Sex-specific Estrogen Levels and Reference Intervals from Infancy to Late Adulthood Determined by LC-MS/MS
[7] Reproducibility of an assay to measure serum progesterone metabolites that may be related to breast cancer risk using liquid chromatography-tandem mass spectrometry - PubMed
[8] Simultaneous Measurement of Thirteen Steroid Hormones in Women with Polycystic Ovary Syndrome and Control Women Using Liquid Chromatography-Tandem Mass Spectrometry
[9] Progesterone Quantitative by HPLC-MS/MS, Serum or Plasma | ARUP Laboratories Test Directory
[10] Liquid Chromatography-Tandem Mass Spectrometry-Based Characterization of Steroid Hormone Profiles in Healthy 6 to 14-Year-Old Male Children
[11] 070085: 17-OH Progesterone, LC/MS | Labcorp
[12] https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(14)00190-3/fulltext
[13] LC-MS/MS test for progesterone outperforms traditional immunoassays
[14] Impact of sample extraction on the accurate measurement of progesterone in human serum by liquid chromatography tandem mass spectrometry
[15] https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article-pdf/98/7/3058/9050028/jcem3058.pdf

 

[Gianluca]

I think more accurate testing would have to trigger a reappraisal of what normal physiologic levels are in men. I'm very curious to see where the 1 mg daily dose you've been taking will land on this <= 0.3 ng/mL normal range, using the improved test method.

I will probably take the test in a week or two, and then I will update you guys here.

 

[Weasel]

Does 5AR recover if one were to quit trt and go natural again?

 

[Anonymon]

Does 5AR recover if one were to quit trt and go natural again?

I know with finasteride a lot of times the balance is thrown off indefinitely even if you stop. TRT would have a different mechanism of affecting it so it’s hard to say. If you do feel worse on TRT no matter the regime or trying to help it, might not be for you for a variety of reasons that can go beyond just 5AR.

 

[Charliebizz]

I know with finasteride a lot of times the balance is thrown off indefinitely even if you stop. TRT would have a different mechanism of affecting it so it’s hard to say. If you do feel worse on TRT no matter the regime or trying to help it, might not be for you for a variety of reasons that can go beyond just 5AR.

I always recommend trying the scrotal cream. I know so many guys who didn't do well on TRT until they made the switch.

 

[Weasel]

I know with finasteride a lot of times the balance is thrown off indefinitely even if you stop. TRT would have a different mechanism of affecting it so it’s hard to say. If you do feel worse on TRT no matter the regime or trying to help it, might not be for you for a variety of reasons that can go beyond just 5AR.

Fair. I think it’s low dopamine honestly but have no way to prove that.

 

[Gianluca]

Does 5AR recover if one were to quit trt and go natural again

I believe if someone is not using huge amount of test for prolonged time, I think probably there is not much to be concerned about the 5-ar. Lower levels of Progesteonre/Pregnenolone can be an issue for some