Effect of TRT vs hCG/FSH on upstream hormone pathways.

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My DHEA is mid range, but my progesterone is completely undetectable. Supplementing 30mg pregnenolone raises my progesterone to 0.2, but even 10mg of preg makes me so tired I can't function, and Defy told me not to replace progesterone directly in males. I assumed it had a function, but honestly the information available is so confusing and contradictory that I can't seem to find an answer or anything that works. HCG would be very convenient but I don't think it actually raises downstream hormones, I've never seen that in my labs, and it has its own problems for me like excessive E2.
Did anyone in particular at Defy make that statement about progesterone? I'd like to know the reasoning. I have discussed my supplementation with Jill, and it sounded like they'd have no objections to prescribing it.

There's research showing that hCG is more likely to increase these hormones in younger men. Like you I never saw a bump while using it, and I also had the E2 issues.
 
Defy Medical TRT clinic doctor
My DHEA is mid range, but my progesterone is completely undetectable. Supplementing 30mg pregnenolone raises my progesterone to 0.2, but even 10mg of preg makes me so tired I can't function, and Defy told me not to replace progesterone directly in males. I assumed it had a function, but honestly the information available is so confusing and contradictory that I can't seem to find an answer or anything that works. HCG would be very convenient but I don't think it actually raises downstream hormones, I've never seen that in my labs, and it has its own problems for me like excessive E2.
Defy... Do not replace progesterone in men. Kind of confused. If there is a real Progesterone deficiency in a man, why not supplement with Progesterone Bioidentica?
 
Did anyone in particular at Defy make that statement about progesterone? I'd like to know the reasoning. I have discussed my supplementation with Jill, and it sounded like they'd have no objections to prescribing it.

There's research showing that hCG is more likely to increase these hormones in younger men. Like you I never saw a bump while using it, and I also had the E2 issues.
Dr Calkins told me that they do not like to use progesterone directly in men and the reasoning was because its easy to overshoot the mark and can cause more issues than its worth.

I'm relatively young at 33, and while HCG skyrockets my e2, boosts my test significantly, so my testicles definitely function, theres a minimal boost of DHEA and no boost on my serum progesterone or pregnenolone.
 
Dr Calkins told me that they do not like to use progesterone directly in men and the reasoning was because its easy to overshoot the mark and can cause more issues than its worth.

I'm relatively young at 33, and while HCG skyrockets my e2, boosts my test significantly, so my testicles definitely function, theres a minimal boost of DHEA and no boost on my serum progesterone or pregnenolone.
I started out taking six times my current dose of progesterone, titrating down to put serum levels at mid-range. I didn't encounter any obvious problems with this. It makes little sense to me to try raising it indirectly with massive doses of pregnenolone. Even relatively small doses of pregnenolone caused me issues with anxiety.

The reported boost from hCG is statistical in nature, and clearly doesn't apply to everyone, even among the relatively young.
 
I started out taking six times my current dose of progesterone, titrating down to put serum levels at mid-range. I didn't encounter any obvious problems with this. It makes little sense to me to try raising it indirectly with massive doses of pregnenolone. Even relatively small doses of pregnenolone caused me issues with anxiety.

The reported boost from hCG is statistical in nature, and clearly doesn't apply to everyone, even among the relatively young.
Do you have a recommended starting dose for progesterone cream if I wanted to start it on the low end?
 
Do you have a recommended starting dose for progesterone cream if I wanted to start it on the low end?
Five milligrams is on the lower end for a transdermal. If absorption is about 10% then this is giving you less than the 600 mcg I'm injecting. With nighttime dosing I'm at mid-range serum levels in the morning.
 
I started out taking six times my current dose of progesterone, titrating down to put serum levels at mid-range. I didn't encounter any obvious problems with this. It makes little sense to me to try raising it indirectly with massive doses of pregnenolone. Even relatively small doses of pregnenolone caused me issues with anxiety.

The reported boost from hCG is statistical in nature, and clearly doesn't apply to everyone, even among the relatively young.
I agree. My SHBG, Dhea and progesterone are low. The normal E2 with a tendency to increase. I need to make my testicles grow back and the amount of sperm too. So I'm in doubt to use 250 Ui of HCG twice a week and increase E2 too much. And progesterone I thought of using 2Mg pentravan transdermal gel and supplementation with 50 mg of Dhea. What do you think? I have to go slow because I tend to Prostatic Hyperplasia at 51 years old.
 
Five milligrams is on the lower end for a transdermal. If absorption is about 10% then this is giving you less than the 600 mcg I'm injecting. With nighttime dosing I'm at mid-range serum levels in the morning.
Is this gel the high absorption pentravan transdermal?
 
I agree. My SHBG, Dhea and progesterone are low. The normal E2 with a tendency to increase. I need to make my testicles grow back and the amount of sperm too. So I'm in doubt to use 250 Ui of HCG twice a week and increase E2 too much. And progesterone I thought of using 2Mg pentravan transdermal gel and supplementation with 50 mg of Dhea. What do you think? I have to go slow because I tend to Prostatic Hyperplasia at 51 years old.
That seems like a conservative dose of progesterone, depending on absorption. But 50 mg of DHEA is a lot. I'd try 12.5 or 25 mg first to see where that puts serum DHEA-S levels.

Is this gel the high absorption pentravan transdermal?
I'm not sure which cream-based product @antelopers is thinking about. I've tried progesterone in oil with satisfactory results, but I prefer injections.
 
That seems like a conservative dose of progesterone, depending on absorption. But 50 mg of DHEA is a lot. I'd try 12.5 or 25 mg first to see where that puts serum DHEA-S levels.


I'm not sure which cream-based product @antelopers is thinking about. I've tried progesterone in oil with satisfactory results, but I prefer injections.
OK thank you. I ended up buying the 100Mg Dhea. Could you take 100Mg every 2 days? I don't know much about Dhea supplementation. I only see the gym people taking 100Mg a day but it can really be a high dose for me.
 
OK thank you. I ended up buying the 100Mg Dhea. Could you take 100Mg every 2 days? I don't know much about Dhea supplementation. I only see the gym people taking 100Mg a day but it can really be a high dose for me.
Or get a pill splitter to make more reasonable doses out of them, unless it's capsules.
 
It's possible to perform a "dry" dilution by mixing contents with cornstarch, but maybe not worth the trouble.
I thought about removing the contents of the capsule and dividing. I put it in the water and drank. But I don't know if it would work because of absorption.
 
I thought about removing the contents of the capsule and dividing. I put it in the water and drank. But I don't know if it would work because of absorption.
That probably works fine. The doses may be imprecise, but that shouldn't matter much as long as you're averaging the desired amount.
 
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Have any of you guys noticed a significant difference in your mental health when prog and other up stream hormones have declined from trt only?

Trt seems to help me slightly mentally in the first few months then around the year mark I start to get super depressed. Like for no reason. I always end up getting off trt and eventually I feel better mentally. But then I get discouraged by the drop in sex drive and recovery from work outs and I get back on rinse and repeat.
 
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